I implore the devs to work on archetypes and classes before it's too late.

You guys are doing cool shit here, but there seems to be a lack of urgency or transparency on how classes are coming along. As the 64 classes was the exact issue that garnered my interest, I am becoming increasingly alarmed at the lack of info. I am worried that you will come up with a cool game world, but not be able to fit the class system into the core game systems well because it is an after-thought.

You can say that you are working on this, but you need to check out the arguments happening around projected classes. We arent tearing the community apart or anything, but people are solidifying what they think a class will be in their minds. If you let someone have a solidified concept of something, but then your vision doesnt line up with theirs, you will be left with a disaffected customer who may just leave because of an avoidable misunderstanding.

If you dont believe me, just take a look at the aftermath of CDPR's Cyberpunk. Most of their player's vitriol was because of unmanaged expectations.

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Caww

The Alpha 2 will likely have many alterations and iterations to the archtype and class structures. There may well be some disappointed players but really it is 8 classes archtypes with variations so it shouldn't be too far from what most people envision a class archtype to be.

Edit: To conform to proper nomenclature.

Ludullu

The expectation is: the game will come out in several years. Any other expectation is people's fault. If you sit there and come up with insane shit in your head - that's on you, not on Intrepid. And if you then cannot adjust what you came up with to what the game will have - that's an even bigger issue.

Cyberpunk failed at that exactly because they promised a shitton and then didn't have most of the things they promised. Intrepid haven't promised anything concrete so far, they've only vaguely described what they wanna have in the game. Now, if Steven goes on the next dev stream and says "the Necromancer will have 20 skelingtons following him around and can then combine them into one 20ft skelington from target" and then on release we don't see that feature - that'd be a Cyberpunk-like failure.

But so far we've only seen this: Steven says that they have a weather system unlike any other game's - and then we fucking got a weather system unlike any other game's. So I'd suggest trust the devs for now, wait until they're ready and keep your wild imagination calm. At least that's what I'm doing, even though I'd love to come up with all kinds of cool shit.

superhero6785

Murdach wrote: »

If you dont believe me, just take a look at the aftermath of CDPR's Cyberpunk. Most of their player's vitriol was because of unmanaged expectations.

I think it was because the game was only 1/2 finished. Expecting a game without game-crushing bugs, T Poses, and PS2 graphics on anything other than a PS5 isn't "unmanaged expectations" 😅

They're working on classes. Alpha 2 will have more available and have the subclass system in place. Patience.

Murdach

superhero6785 wrote: »

Murdach wrote: »

If you dont believe me, just take a look at the aftermath of CDPR's Cyberpunk. Most of their player's vitriol was because of unmanaged expectations.

I think it was because the game was only 1/2 finished. Expecting a game without game-crushing bugs, T Poses, and PS2 graphics on anything other than a PS5 isn't "unmanaged expectations" 😅

They're working on classes. Alpha 2 will have more available and have the subclass system in place. Patience.

Actually, those bugs and graphics did not stop people from loving the Witcher series. I played every Witcher from launch and already knew CDPR made eurojank. The problem was most fans jumped in at Witcher 3, after they hired the cats that modded 1 and 2 into a good shape.

That being said, even though Cyberpunk has reportedly been modded and fixed cats still dont want to go back and play because they feel they got burned the first time around.

Ashes of Creations very first advertising point was the Class system and having 64 of them. I dont think it's unreasonable for them to put effort into more than 3 of the base archetypes 5 years later.

Murdach

Thanks for the responses fam, but I was hoping more for one from a dev or an Ashes employee. I think the only specific example we have gotten all of these years is a Fighter augmenting their Dash with Teleport. Just the Necromancer arguments alone should be worrying the dev team. The imagined powers being bandied about are wildly outside of the current class parameters that are known.

I'm just saying. It's gonna get ugly if it's left to fester.

Ludullu

Murdach wrote: »

I'm just saying. It's gonna get ugly if it's left to fester.

The only ones making it ugly are the entitled people who think there's some arbitrary time limit that they themselves have put on Intrepid. The only thing that can prevent the game from coming out whenever it wants is if all the whales stop buying monthly cosmetics, and I somehow doubt that's gonna happen just because Intrepid haven't shown classes or augments before alpha2.

PenguinPaladin

These conversations happen all the time. Im assuming you're talking about the summoners having even more pets topic. I think its unrealistic in general, i think 3 summons and a combat pet are more than should be expected to begin with. The forums are a place to discuss ideas.... the thought, what they are talking about scares me, and the potential of scope creep can ruin the game. Intrepid has a vision they are going towards... and most of them have mmo experience. The people that get too wrapped up in hyping themselves up and then get disappointed, are going to happen... thats part of hype. Its why no game ever lives up to expectations.

SongRune

The "big plan" after Alpha 1 was a full combat revamp. We don't know anything about how it's doing because they've moved away from transparent development (for perfectly legitimate reasons, imo), but between that and the fact that Alpha 2 is supposed to have all archetypes available, along with some secondary archetypes and augments (ref), I feel it's reasonable to conclude that they are working on it.

superhero6785

Murdach wrote: »

superhero6785 wrote: »

Murdach wrote: »

If you dont believe me, just take a look at the aftermath of CDPR's Cyberpunk. Most of their player's vitriol was because of unmanaged expectations.

I think it was because the game was only 1/2 finished. Expecting a game without game-crushing bugs, T Poses, and PS2 graphics on anything other than a PS5 isn't "unmanaged expectations" 😅

They're working on classes. Alpha 2 will have more available and have the subclass system in place. Patience.

Actually, those bugs and graphics did not stop people from loving the Witcher series. I played every Witcher from launch and already knew CDPR made eurojank. The problem was most fans jumped in at Witcher 3, after they hired the cats that modded 1 and 2 into a good shape.

So people liked one buggy 1/2 finished game in the past & therefore if people don't like it again then it's their fault for having "unmanaged expectations" for a finished game? Makes sense.

Imonuall

I guess the problem with too many combinations of classes in pvp is that it's impossible to balance all the possible skills interactions. one skill can be too op used with another one, so they nerf it and basically it becomes too weak for anything else.
in pve it doesn't really matter if some skill is more op than another, but in pvp balance is too crucial and the more combinations you have, the more impossibile it becomes to balance them all.
we'll see.

NishUK

Even though I love class and skill diversities and I'm totally against people saying "8 classes with a bit of variation" without them knowing themselves how deeps the variations will turn out like, at the end of the day, the combat and details aren't in yet.

Even though marketting/advertisement has been stale for the average gaming audience, it appears as though they are going to stay shut on that front and weather the storm when their Alpha 2 is quite the polished beast and then the opinions and criticism's will rain.

PenguinPaladin

NishUK wrote: »

I'm totally against people saying "8 classes with a bit of variation" without them knowing themselves how deeps the variations will turn out like, at the end of the day, the combat and details aren't in yet.

The reason why people say this is because your main class decides all of your skills. Your second class "changes nothing" when it comes to what you can do. It changes "how" you do what you can do.

And making that very clear to try and keep people from running off into fantasy thinking the enchanter is nothing like the mage. But yeah, who knows how deep it will go in the end

Dygz

Murdach wrote: »

Thanks for the responses fam, but I was hoping more for one from a dev or an Ashes employee. I think the only specific example we have gotten all of these years is a Fighter augmenting their Dash with Teleport. Just the Necromancer arguments alone should be worrying the dev team. The imagined powers being bandied about are wildly outside of the current class parameters that are known.

Haha!
No! We also have the example of applying a Mage's Fire or Lightning augment to the Fighter's Charge Active Skill.

Devs rarely respond here.

Talents

They're working on combat. They can't work on classes before the combat is done.

Dygz

They're working on combat and classes.

CROW3

I just finished Cyberpunk 2077 (v1.5). I thought it was a fantastic game, it's launch was a disaster though. I'm not sure how much of that disaster was missed expectations on features versus little things missing feeling MUCH bigger because the game performed (technically) like crap. Either way it was a big miss from the CDPR W3 wins.

For Ashes, I think most of us are drooling to see the other archetypes, and the interaction (synergies + advantages/disadvantages) between the archetypes. Just to note - because this always comes up - there are only 8 core classes with 8 variations each, Not 64 completely distinct classes. Think 8 base ice creams with 8 different toppings.

unknown

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Noaani

Murdach wrote: »

You can say that you are working on this, but you need to check out the arguments happening around projected classes. We arent tearing the community apart or anything, but people are solidifying what they think a class will be in their minds. If you let someone have a solidified concept of something, but then your vision doesnt line up with theirs, you will be left with a disaffected customer who may just leave because of an avoidable misunderstanding.

If people are forming solid opinions on what a class will be, without input from Intrepid, that is on them.

Someone involved in those conversations should probably try to stop that from happening.

As an aside, the reason we don't have solid class info as yet is because it isn't finalized. Intrepid don't want people forming solid opinions on things that are still changing.

Balanz

Talents wrote: »

They're working on combat. They can't work on classes before the combat is done.

Dygz wrote: »

They're working on combat and classes.

Pretty much.

Tragnar

I really dislike the wording where they said "64 classes", because in essence it is only 8 classes with a choice to double down on your class fantasy or to steal stuff from another class

yes you have total 64 RP variations, but from gameplay perspective you will not have 64 unique classes - just 8 with customization options to steal stuff from the other 7 classes

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