Kill count?

I hope there will be a kill count of nocs and players alike and statboard that everyone can see.

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I disagree, such a statistic would encourage jerks to PK lowbies and have a high kill count, just to compensate for all their personal flaws and inadequacies.

Noaani

tautau wrote: »

I disagree, such a statistic would encourage jerks to PK lowbies and have a high kill count, just to compensate for all their personal flaws and inadequacies.

This would be an issue.

However, if you either add a count for how many kills fell in to +/-5 level bands, or to a lesser extent an average level of all kills, it may indeed discourage this behavior even more than not having it.

I do like the general idea, but I'd also like to include kills NPC's have on players. Would be interesting to see NPC's with 5 or 6 figure kill counts - assuming the game has difficult content.

Mag7spy

Leaderboards for everything besides owpvp would be good.

CROW3

For those of us that love data, I want an entire background log for all stats and counts.

Ludullu

Have the pvp count but not PK count. This was all the "I wanna be on the leaderboard" people would just hit people once to "challenge them to a duel", but not PK them because that wouldn't increase their e-peen.

L2 private servers had pvp/pk leaderboards and a ton of people fought as much as they could to be up there. Though PKing was way less punishable there, so people would in fact PK lowbies to be higher on the PK part of the board.

Dolyem

For those of you saying no to OWPVP count allow me to make an amendment. Allow it, but make it only count as a kill if they are within like, 3 levels of your level when you made the kill. That way its still a fun stat to see and it doesnt encourage maiming low level players.

Mag7spy

The whoel point of the corruption system is to reduce pvp, it makes 0 sense to have a leader board for owPvP without a objective in mind that you can just make a alt and kill a bunch of people on it. Its going against the system and makes no sense, its not competitive in the slightest or something to wear a badge over.

Guild wars, arena, siege, battleground are point to have a leaderboard for. Guild wars being owPvP when you dec another guild.

Personal stats are fien to keep track for yourself which i think is cool and fine. But trying to make a leaderboard for random owPvP where a leaderboard is competitive in nature doesn't make sense. You are effective incentiving people for it when its against the design of the system.

Making it so only kills count for people within your level, Also think that is pointless as well, people will just abuse it and get themselves to the top, it isn't competitive.

Dolyem

Mag7spy wrote: »

The whoel point of the corruption system is to reduce pvp, it makes 0 sense to have a leader board for owPvP without a objective in mind that you can just make a alt and kill a bunch of people on it. Its going against the system and makes no sense, its not competitive in the slightest or something to wear a badge over.

Guild wars, arena, siege, battleground are point to have a leaderboard for. Guild wars being owPvP when you dec another guild.

Personal stats are fien to keep track for yourself which i think is cool and fine. But trying to make a leaderboard for random owPvP where a leaderboard is competitive in nature doesn't make sense. You are effective incentiving people for it when its against the design of the system.

Making it so only kills count for people within your level, Also think that is pointless as well, people will just abuse it and get themselves to the top, it isn't competitive.

OWPvP isnt going against the system, otherwise they wouldn't have it enabled, the competition is directly related to the risk and rewards from killing other players, and are determined by those players actions. And as far as wearing a badge, what if players want the challenge of being the bad guy? That can directly correlate with giving reason and competition for the bounty hunter system, allowing bounty hunters to even check the leaderboards and keep an eye out for those players in particular, possibly granting higher points for themselves on a bounty leaderboard. The point of the corruption system is not to reduce pvp, it is to reduce griefing. And not counting low level kills in an owpvp count would back that purpose. You would only be rewarded leaderboard stats for attacking capable opponents, and even then you would have the added difficulty of the corruption system in place to make sure it doesn't get out of hand. No reason to worry as long as corruption keeps the people attempting to go that route in check.

Ludullu

Mag7spy wrote: »

The whole point of the corruption system is to reduce pvp, it makes 0 sense to have a leader board for owPvP without a objective in mind that you can just make a alt and kill a bunch of people on it. Its going against the system and makes no sense, its not competitive in the slightest or something to wear a badge over.

Corruption is there to stop senseless PKing, not pvp. If your target fights back - that's pvp, and if you kill your target after they fight back - that's a pvp counter uptick.

Yes, killing an alt or a friend just for the counter is an option, but when people learn that your count doesn't mean shit (because you're shit at pvp), your reputation will be way worse than what it would've been w/o doing all those alt kills. This has been the case on most L2 servers I've played on.

Mag7spy wrote: »

Guild wars being owPvP when you dec another guild.

And you could just go to war with a small casual guild of low lvl players and just rake up the easy kills for the leaderboard, so it's not like this will be fairer than plain owpvp.

Mag7spy

Point of corruption system is to reduce griefing and non consensual PvP. You go from green or purple to red. I feel in most cases people most likely won't try to fight back as they won't have that much to lose. And the consequences of the system will curb a lot of random owpvp because of the consequences

I'm not talking about bountyhunter boards or anything that derails into something different, im simply talking about the normal owpvp experience not relating to guild wars and people just flagging and attacking random people. Again people can easily take advantage of it and boost their stats on the leaderboard, the game systems in mind don't really advocate a reason for a leadboarder on non consensual owpvp with no objective.

Ludullu

Mag7spy wrote: »

Point of corruption system is to reduce griefing and non consensual PvP. You go from green or purple to red. I feel in most cases people most likely won't try to fight back as they won't have that much to lose. And the consequences of the system will curb a lot of random owpvp because of the consequences

We'll have to see about that during alpha-beta testing and on the release itself. I'd be fairly sad if that's the case, but it is what it is.

Mag7spy

NiKr wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

The whole point of the corruption system is to reduce pvp, it makes 0 sense to have a leader board for owPvP without a objective in mind that you can just make a alt and kill a bunch of people on it. Its going against the system and makes no sense, its not competitive in the slightest or something to wear a badge over.

Corruption is there to stop senseless PKing, not pvp. If your target fights back - that's pvp, and if you kill your target after they fight back - that's a pvp counter uptick.

Yes, killing an alt or a friend just for the counter is an option, but when people learn that your count doesn't mean shit (because you're shit at pvp), your reputation will be way worse than what it would've been w/o doing all those alt kills. This has been the case on most L2 servers I've played on.

Mag7spy wrote: »

Guild wars being owPvP when you dec another guild.

And you could just go to war with a small casual guild of low lvl players and just rake up the easy kills for the leaderboard, so it's not like this will be fairer than plain owpvp.

it doesn't matter about reputation, what one things is right or wrong people will just do whatever to get tot he top of the leaderboards for fun even if its on lvl 5 characters. That alone shows why it is pointless its not competitive in the slightest, id rather have more meaningful leaderboards, then having 50 different tabs of pointless leaderboards just cause people want to track everything even if it is pointless.

The fact corruption is there to stop senseless pvp isn't a point for leaderboard that says how many people you have killed and making a competition out of it. Both those go against each other. You will have people running around being annoying attacking everyone hoping for the person that fights back so they can boost their score if they dont want to risk going red.

Again leaderboards are good and there will be plenty of content where they can have boards for that kind of thing. Ow guild pvp and bounty leaderboards would be fine for that and push more pvp in the game in how the game design ideas have been presented.

CROW3

Pretty simple workaround, @Mag7spy:

- clear kills (999)
> purples (800)
> reds (199)
- Green murders (4)

Where ‘clear kills’ become the leaderboard stat, and green murders aren’t counted in your clear kills.

If you want to add additional deterrence for murders then:

Clear kills = (purple kills + red kills) - green kills

Not complicated, but curious to see where Intrepid takes this.

Mag7spy

NiKr wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Point of corruption system is to reduce griefing and non consensual PvP. You go from green or purple to red. I feel in most cases people most likely won't try to fight back as they won't have that much to lose. And the consequences of the system will curb a lot of random owpvp because of the consequences

We'll have to see about that during alpha-beta testing and on the release itself. I'd be fairly sad if that's the case, but it is what it is.

Question you have a group of people though you aren't together. Someone flags up on your guildy. does your guild fight back knowing they have nothing to lose or does your guildy take the death knowing you and your group will be there to kill them before they can get away. And have a chance to get some of their good loot potentially. That is a thought process some people will have because of gear drops on corruption players as nothing would be more hype then ending up getting a really nice drop off them.

End the end it depends how the corruption systems works, and how punishing it is. My mind set would be different on this if it wasn't as punishing as id 100% would be pking everyone i see lmao.

Mag7spy

CROW3 wrote: »

Pretty simple workaround, @Mag7spy:

- clear kills (999)
> purples (800)
> reds (199)
- Green murders (4)

Where ‘clear kills’ become the leaderboard stat, and green murders aren’t counted in your clear kills.

If you want to add additional deterrence for murders then:

Clear kills = (purple kills + red kills) - green kills

Not complicated, but curious to see where Intrepid takes this.

Making green kills pointless would be a right step. but is the overall design of corruption intended to push people to attack each other constantly in terms for competing on a leaderboard and force people to fight back so they can earn poitns even if they aren't wanting to pvp. That would be the question they would be thinking on imo to have a owpvp leaderboard not based on guild wars but just random pvp. I've personally felt they have wanted to not really push owPvP on people as heavily for random pks.

Ludullu

Mag7spy wrote: »

Question you have a group of people though you aren't together. Someone flags up on your guildy. does your guild fight back knowing they have nothing to lose or does your guildy take the death knowing you and your group will be there to kill them before they can get away. And have a chance to get some of their good loot potentially. That is a thought process some people will have because of gear drops on corruption players as nothing would be more hype then ending up getting a really nice drop off them.

It's more about your own loot/circumstances than any potential piece of gear that would most likely not drop from the PKer. If it's a frequent PKer - they're not wearing anything valuable because they're PKing all the time and don't want to lose shit. So it's pretty useless to waste a res or respawn just for the off chance that the PKer will have anything of value. And if it's just an attacker, while we're in a group - we just fight back because why the hell wouldn't we. Our farming time is way more important than some small piece of loot.

Also, no single person will be attacker a group of people, unless it's high lvl vs a group of low lvls, at which point that's just character suicide in terms of corruption amounts. And if it's a group attacking a group - you're fighting back because you're fighting for your farm.

And in my mind I don't see a reason why that interaction would be different in Ashes. Well, on the off chance that literally your very first PK gives you so damn much corruption that you can lose 2+ gear pieces on death - that would in fact change that interaction, but at that point you just wouldn't have owpvp, which is most definitely not the goal of this system.

George_Black

Nobody mentioned killswaps yet?

Mag7spy

George_Black wrote: »

Nobody mentioned killswaps yet?

I did, though not completely directly i think.

George_Black

Nobody mentioned the toxicity and elitism it's going to cause just like posting dps parses?

Ludullu

George_Black wrote: »

Nobody mentioned killswaps yet?

As in, I kill you and you kill me until we're at the top of the board? I'd put that towards the "killing alts" exploit. It gets you to the top, but it's meaningless in the end and your e-peen is hollow. Obviously someone would do that, but anyone near the top would not care about them.

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