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To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
Or if someone thinks combat is easy @Dygz you can do 0 grinding, log onto the game make a trial character that starts max level and has all the gear and we can do some pvp and see if its easy or not.
Free character, free gear, no grind, just pvp combat
Honestly overall its not a big deal we all have are moments in the past, i had plenty of fun pvp in tab target games as well. Right now im on someone ass for saying BDO takes no skill and i want to see them pvp lmao. I had enough text talk i want to see a fight.
This isn't valid though.
Because the part of BDO that Dygz understands does not require skill. You can agree with that, right?
BDO PvE does not remotely take any skill to actually defeat enemies at the recommended AP levels on the map until at BEST Pila Ku Jail (or if you try to run new Basilisk Den solo on a low mobility class I GUESS?)
Which means the most you can do is level up to unlock Rift Bosses and test your skill on those, but those are Solo, Optional, and in no way connected to any story or any RP by the game, you have to come up with that yourself.
I'm not saying Dygz never participated in these, maybe Dygz also finds Ahib Griffon and Dastard Bheg to be 'just a hack and slash encounter', but even if you could get 'Dygz PvP video' all it would tell you is what Dygz already tells everyone about any PvP skills or approaches.
Or maybe it would consist if Dygz bodying all comers because if you pay close attention, Dygz has never implied 'I have difficulty with these things', just 'I don't like them'.
Getting into some specifics - here are some examples that come to mind.
- Neverwinter: I have a LMB/RMB assignment that I can make, which is directed to either my reticle target, or my locked target (if it's 180 degrees in front of me) - but where that projectile hits is totally irrelevant, it's reasonable to see a crit as representing a head shot.
- AC: Odyssey/ESO/MO2: It matters where I (the player) literally aims my shot on my target (FPS style), here pixels can matter (depending on hit box). But it's much more complex when it comes to ping and managing distance (especially with archery having a minimum range). All of these games have a concept of bow draw as well - which is another issue in and of itself.
Does it make most sense for bows to have a player draw action (e.g. ESO) or a timed cooldown (NWO) to space shots out?
I like that feeling of bow draw but also think we could have both. Crossbows could be cooldown and normal bows be draw. If people don't like that then i'd think you could separate bows into short vs long bows and have one use draw.
I think the last time we had this discussion, we had reached the point of 'the soft lock is useful as a counter to ping issues', and pixel level fire accuracy is less optimal.
If I only have to line up a shot, the exact position of the opponent on my screen to me can be 'correct', my opponent might have 'stopped moving' on their own side, but will still be within the range of the soft lock, unless they used a high-mobility ability before I fired.
In a Hybrid system, particularly one that we can speculate on from what we know so far (Out of Range indicators from Alpha-1, hitboxes shown on the Hammer and Whirlwind skills in recent), the high mobility effect will indeed dodge this even if you are Tab Targeted, so it doesn't matter.
I am expecting bow draw and charge times to be a thing, barring the unintuitive issues they cause that are sometimes tweaked in games for the uninitiated.
I go back and forth on this. On the one hand, I totally agree on the psychological satisfaction on bow draw and release. It's just fun - particularly when I have initiative (i.e. ambushing that helpless elf). What I don't like is how this feels in fast-paced encounters when balance between melee strikes, traps, and mobility to get past the minimum distance threshold.
In this case, I'd rather just have my LMB fire whatever shot with a calculated timer spacing those shots out. This is how NWO works (and WoW pretty much), and allows a character with a stronger ranged build to maximize their spec (instead of it being front loaded then you're downshifting to melee). This timer could also be impacted by skill / abilities / spec / buffs - doesn't have to be the same for everyone.
Yeah, I'm in between. I like having the 'soft lock' (i.e. reticle over my target) and hard-lock (basically actiony tab), just gives me the most number of options given the spectrum of encounters.
If you are only doing pve you are not understanding BDO, but his view point had no nuance to it he simply stated bdo has no skill. If you are going to give a strong opinion at least detail what are you talking about with the game , but i get the vibe it doesn't matter from it there is no trying to understand its simply his view point and that is the only thing that matters.
BDO is meant to be a pvp game, if you are talking about mechanics for the game and the combat taking skill, you need to have done pvp really. Unsure why he is saying weirdly wrong information on the game if he didn't even try to play it longer then he did, and saying it like its fact.
NWO is fine you basically just shot near your target and the arrow moves towards it for some shots. You should 100% be able to draw your bow and hold it longer which helps prevent spam shots and makes your aim more meaningful for more free aim. Since that creates a kind of time sink it will stop people from trying to spam long range shots constantly
Overall this is just basic attacks, they should be made to be fun(balanced, fluid, etc), you are going to have like a bunch of abilities to use as well or use most the time depending on how cooldowns are and all.
It's just different skills.
The skills you use for cross-country are not the same skills you use for sprinting or for hurdles or for relay racing. If you try to use your sprinting skills for cross-country, you will likely not do well. If you try to use your cross-country skills for sprinting, you will likely not do well.
And, at the end of the day, it comes down to preference - not what is objectively better than the other or which takes more skill.
The skills that you use to be an accomplished figure skater are not the sae skills you use to be an accomplished hockey skater. Both take skill.
BDO combat is great for a Hack & Slash. That combat is not great for an RPG. Just like I'm not going to use figure skating techniques to try to play hockey.
It's all skill. Just different skills.
At the end of the day, it comes down to preference.
Ashes has both Tab Target and Action Combat.
We will have to see which is more popular. It's not just a matter of how many players use Action Combat but also how often individuals rely on Action Combat.
We won't know that until we test it.
Kickball can be fun, but not really if what you want to do is hit a ball with a bat. The type of ball is important - even if much of the rest of the game is similar.
In that system, what happens if I just click the LMB once? Does my shot reach the target or does the arrow hit the ground 3 feet in front of me? Does it hit with x% power, but if I hold down the LMB to 'charge' the shot does it hit with y(x%)?
Time sinks in ranged combat need to be really carefully balanced with a minimum range distance. Too much of a sink and you basically have a one shot weapon and only when you have initiative.
The person that wants to rp the most and views their characters as different can't see combat isn't what makes something a rpg? I think you are just stubborn and try to create weird serious where you can view yourself as right even if you are lying to yourself.
Anything can be a rpg as long as their are rpg elements. What games a good game and rpg is up to the type of game it is trying to be. What makes a good rpg isn't combat, combat is something that lacks in most rpgs. If you are going to debate this im not going to be jumping on that I just can't believe some of the things you say.....If i played cyberpunk for the gun play it would not have been the best game. I just hope this is a troll.
Type of combat is part of what determines whether a game is an RPG, an FPS, a Battle Royale or a Sim.
I'd never do it like that, the normal range combat would be balanced around a range where you are trying to hit your target (normal combat range). The charge one is for more power and longer distances. If there is ever a action that doesn't do anything like landing a arrow 3 feet in front of you, that shouldn't be in a game. The mind set is I have my normal shot that I can rely on and is good for most situations, but then i have a charge shot for long range and slightly more dmg.
Highest dps would be normal shots, as charge shots are more for starting a encounter, longer range fights, or up to however the player wants to do it.
That's a pretty narrow mindset. I've recently been playing a few story driven RPGs without any violence or combat.
Ok - so snap-shots would be in (a quick tap on the LMB) at 100% to the target (locked or soft) up to max range of the weapon? If I hold the LMB for some period of time (I imagine there's like a metered ceiling) I would fire a shot with say 300% to the target up to max range?
^ and these are basic ranged attacks...
I think that would work with my playstyle. That would free up some muscle memory for managing cc / active skills / and a RMB for maybe a zoom function.
hm... if RMB had a zoom feature (might be mod+RMB) would that add extra dmg to the basic attack?
Exactly what I would think on that, and they would balance out on time to hold and range given for whatever works for the game. So people can't spam infinite range and quickly it just be a way to balance that out if its a problem.
I'm not sure on much zoom, i could see for charge shots you get a little bit of zoom to help with the effect but it still be up to your skill on landing the shots. And helps keep it more immersive and not like a fps like you have a scope or something. But then maybe maybe the weapon tree could have even more higher zoom and it slows down how fast your charge shots are but gives you a bit more dmg.
Lots of head cannon i could do. And for people that like that play style its there for them, a few guildies of mine would like that personally since it is more fun for them. Though its hard to get people to comment on the forums lol.
It doesn't matter if you are a fan of iframes, it doesn't make the combat more skillful, it just makes it WAY more ping reliant, BDO has Aim Assist and some pretty big AoEs, Archeage tab skills still requires you to be looking in the enemies direction to be used, had quite a few action skills mixed in and mobility can disrupt both.
Aren't we all sinners?
Don't forget to drop your feedback in the official feedback thread here: https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/52724/feedback-request-basic-melee-weapon-attack-update-discussed-in-june-livestream/p1
In case you missed it, we provided a little more clarification here (although it seems most people are on the same page with how hybrid combat works, in this thread ^_^): https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/52785/combat-clarifications-have-feedback-and-thoughts-on-combat-click-here-first#latest
Want the games combat to be fast paced? Cool, fewer abilities, less need for accuracy (BDO).
Want the game to have more abilities to chose from? Cool, slower combat and less need for accuracy (Tera).
Want the game to require high levels of accuracy? Cool, slower combat and few abilities (Darkfall).
You cant have all of them in one game.
To me, ESO attempted to be in about the middle. It wasn't all that fast, but wasnt slow, it needed some accuracy, but not a lot and it had a selection of abilities you could use, but not that many.
Darkfall probably was one of the most mechanically difficult action combat games.
I think the "Arrow Voley" mechanic looked really intersting and something that Interpid should consider.
Tab targeting ranged base attacks seems best for a hybrid system imo.
Because, if you add the layer of, aim it yourself to base attacks. The player should be rewarded for that skill of aiming, and having a reward for base attacking correctly would start to unbalance the system. I agree with voidwalker there.
Action based melee attacking with their arched hitboxes fits well in a hybrid system because your aim doesnt need to be so precise with it, and there for it doesnt need to be rewarded. It just need to feel appropriate to be satisfying.
Like i said in my post before you don't need to be precise soft targeting is something that exist as well. They are also balancing with tab vrs action combat using accuracy.
Soft targeting does exist yes, and the magic bow from dragons dogma is an example yes.
But im saying imo. Just to get my opinion out there. Soft targeting doesnt accomplish what the action combat side of ranged attacking wants i beleive. I dont think its a "compromise" where anyone is happy. Tab target players would perfer simple tab target, action players would perfer a fully fleshed out aiming system with rewards. And compromising to a solf targeting system manages to give neither side what they want. Im sure it could be done in an enjoyable way if they did go that route. Im sure with enough effort in any route they choose will end up in a playable state. Just discussing.