Tanks, Shields and Active Blocking

Hey all. Since the last Live Stream showing some basic combat it has come to our attention that there is the chance we will have access to an active block. I often play a tank class in games and enjoy what they bring to the table in a raid composition. The active block has raised a concern for me. How often will a Tank be expected to use the block in PVE?

After playing a great deal in another game where the tank character was expected to have the active shield block up as much as possible, I learned that this play style was very dull.

I'd like to see the Tank get to use their active block in meaningful ways like surviving AoE mechanics other classics could not or to stop a critical strike by a boss that otherwise might drop them. What I hope to avoid is stagnant shield up time that takes away from my fun playing the class.

Thoughts?

Find more posts tagged with

Staff

Comments

mcstackerson

What games with active block have you played?

Most i have played, the tank's goal was to keep there shield up the least amount of time necessary so they could maximize their threat.

It's the first time we have seen it so it's hard to tell what the role will be in combat. Could be like ESO where you just supposed to block the big hits or tera where it's constantly used to prevent damage.

I like it for the tanking role as it makes the role play differently. In a lot of games, tanks just playing like dps with a bunch of mitigation.

Drunkninja

I wasn't going to point direct fingers, but I tanked a lot in New World. Now mind you, I enjoyed all other aspects of their tanking class. I just found that against bosses if your shield wasn't up a lot then you could just be cut down. This lead to just buffing your self with your abilities and backing up slowly, shield up being knocked around.

falcorpix

Drunkninja wrote: »

I wasn't going to point direct fingers, but I tanked a lot in New World. Now mind you, I enjoyed all other aspects of their tanking class. I just found that against bosses if your shield wasn't up a lot then you could just be cut down. This lead to just buffing your self with your abilities and backing up slowly, shield up being knocked around.

Ah, NW, that game should never be used as example in any discussion, unless we are talking about what not to do.

Drunkninja wrote: »

After playing a great deal in another game where the tank character was expected to have the active shield block up as much as possible, I learned that this play style was very dull.

well, the game im most familiar with that has active blocking is Tera, which was the complete opposite of this. The goal was to block as many attacks as possible for the least amount of time possible, to a point where an extremely skilled tank would barely hold block and mostly just tap with really good timing.

Personally I loved it and ever since I tanked in Tera I was never able to tank in any other game, its just so slow and dull, especially games without any sort of active block.

Drunkninja

People keep bringing up Tera. I know the game died to p2w, but I'm wishing I had a chance to play it now to see what the tanking hype was all about.

mcstackerson

Drunkninja wrote: »

I wasn't going to point direct fingers, but I tanked a lot in New World. Now mind you, I enjoyed all other aspects of their tanking class. I just found that against bosses if your shield wasn't up a lot then you could just be cut down. This lead to just buffing your self with your abilities and backing up slowly, shield up being knocked around.

I think it's important to see where people are coming from as ones games implementation of a system doesn't have to be the same as another. To my knowledge, New World added tanking late in it's development so it's not that surprising it didn't feel as good as it could have.

We aren't sure the role active block will play in tanking yet. I don't think active block should mean a tank hides behind it's shield the whole time. The goal should be to only have your block up when you are being attacked and players should have time to weave in attacks.

Elder

It could be interesting to have active blocking be less about mitigating damage and more of a tool for preventing/lessening stuns, staggers, knockdowns, etc.

Shields could be more effective at reducing CC making it more impactful for tanks who need to maintain threat or complete mechanics when others may not have recovered as quickly.

Tanks might also be more viable in PvP against classes who are more CC orientated. Kind of like a rock paper scissors scenario.

Vaknar

User @Jahlon has a similar thread up discussing this topic! The discussions are slightly different, so for now I won't merge the threads 😅. However, you might find yourself interested in that discussion as well! That can be found here: https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/52769/how-to-give-action-fans-active-blocking-without-breaking-waterfall-stat-blocking/p1 ^_^

Dygz

I expect Tanks to also be using Shield Active Skills in addtion to Action Combat Block.
(For some people maybe in place of Action COmbat Bloock.)

Drunkninja

Thanks Vaknar. Yeh I didn't notice that thread. I almost deleted this one, but it's slightly different. If it's merged that's no worries at all.

SirChancelot

Elder wrote: »

It could be interesting to have active blocking be less about mitigating damage and more of a tool for preventing/lessening stuns, staggers, knockdowns, etc.

Shields could be more effective at reducing CC making it more impactful for tanks who need to maintain threat or complete mechanics when others may not have recovered as quickly.

Tanks might also be more viable in PvP against classes who are more CC orientated. Kind of like a rock paper scissors scenario.

I guess the problem with that though would be pushing tanks into "needing*" a shield, and Stephen has kind of given the impression of not liking when players are forced into a certain build for being meta

Mag7spy

SirChancelot wrote: »

Elder wrote: »

It could be interesting to have active blocking be less about mitigating damage and more of a tool for preventing/lessening stuns, staggers, knockdowns, etc.

Shields could be more effective at reducing CC making it more impactful for tanks who need to maintain threat or complete mechanics when others may not have recovered as quickly.

Tanks might also be more viable in PvP against classes who are more CC orientated. Kind of like a rock paper scissors scenario.

I guess the problem with that though would be pushing tanks into "needing*" a shield, and Stephen has kind of given the impression of not liking when players are forced into a certain build for being meta

I'm sure there will be lots of different types of builds, but someone using a shield will always be more tanky can't really beat a offhand that is meant only for defense.

AidanKD

Dygz wrote: »

I expect Tanks to also be using Shield Active Skills in addtion to Action Combat Block.
(For some people maybe in place of Action COmbat Bloock.)

Given we shouldn't have weapon-specific active abilities to my own awareness, are you referring to the class active skills? There are some defensive abilities in the Tank toolkit for sure.

George_Black

Raid bosses should prepare the tanks o raise their shields. How good looking the methods are, and how challenging as well is up to the devs work.

Mobs should have some attacks that you would want the tank to block.

Holding block up 100% is looking silly and boring.

Dygz

AidanKD wrote: »

Given we shouldn't have weapon-specific active abilities to my own awareness, are you referring to the class active skills? There are some defensive abilities in the Tank toolkit for sure.

I'm referring to Tank Active Skills like Ultimate Defense.

SirChancelot

Mag7spy wrote: »

SirChancelot wrote: »

Elder wrote: »

It could be interesting to have active blocking be less about mitigating damage and more of a tool for preventing/lessening stuns, staggers, knockdowns, etc.

Shields could be more effective at reducing CC making it more impactful for tanks who need to maintain threat or complete mechanics when others may not have recovered as quickly.

Tanks might also be more viable in PvP against classes who are more CC orientated. Kind of like a rock paper scissors scenario.

I guess the problem with that though would be pushing tanks into "needing*" a shield, and Stephen has kind of given the impression of not liking when players are forced into a certain build for being meta

I'm sure there will be lots of different types of builds, but someone using a shield will always be more tanky can't really beat a offhand that is meant only for defense.

Sure on surface I agree, but intrepid has said they want to avoid obvious meta... Logically I'd say a tank/tank, full plate,with a shield and whatever is the most cliche looking build... Would obviously be best because that all is "meant only for defense"... But if that's the clear best choice everyone would use it to tank and it becomes the meta choice...
So while yeah we could think it would be that simple, they're hopefully going to avoid that

Maybe shields will block a higher percentage of damage, or add a passive block utility, or would allow you to hold up the active block longer... But I hope it's not as simple as you say, "ugug shield block best so tank use shield, ugg"... You would be heading in the direction of tanking about as engaging as NW was if it's that simple...

potpot

I think active block should be a tank specific skill and it should operate independently from any stat/passive block chance. (may also boost passive stat maybe???)

I propose active block be performance based where instead of a specific resource be depleted upon use, instead the skill is governed by its utilization.

Utilization:
The longer the skill is held the lower the blocking efficacy. e.g.(100-20% damage block scaling from 1second to 7 seconds).
The longer the skill is held for the longer the cooldown for it to activated again. e.g.(active block held for 1 second= 5 seconds cooldown, active block held for 5 seconds= 10 seconds cooldown and active block held for 10 seconds = 15/20 seconds cooldown.) Max duration of active block = 10seconds.

Dimitraeos

I kind of liked the block gauge system in BDO. I mained a warrior but the same thing worked for other shield classes.

Your block stance was toggleable on and off when needed, as you took damage the gauge would deplete and would regenerate when you weren't blocking (also made you CC immune except for grapples). If your block "broke" from taking too much damage, you wouldn't be able to block again until it stared replenishing.

It made it resource based I guess but only for active blocking, it didnt effect other skills unless they had "forward guards" (slightly different mechanic). Seemed to work okay (aside from the absurd scaling of damage towards the later years of BDOs lifespan)

CROW3

I’m hoping active block w for non-tanks would be as accessible as shooting a bow for non-Rangers. The shield damage mitigation would be much different for non-tanks than tanks, just as long now white damage / accuracy would be much different for Rangers v. Non-Rangers.

I think it would be silly that 48 non-tank classes could use a shield while not be able to use the most basic move of a shield (active block).

Dimitraeos

CROW3 wrote: »

I’m hoping active block w for non-tanks would be as accessible as shooting a bow for non-Rangers. The shield damage mitigation would be much different for non-tanks than tanks, just as long now white damage / accuracy would be much different for Rangers v. Non-Rangers.

I think it would be silly that 48 non-tank classes could use a shield while not be able to use the most basic move of a shield (active block).

How would a non-tank class use a shield though? Wouldnt that have to be extremely class specific? Like a Ranger using a shield do you mean?

Mag7spy

Dimitraeos wrote: »

CROW3 wrote: »

I’m hoping active block w for non-tanks would be as accessible as shooting a bow for non-Rangers. The shield damage mitigation would be much different for non-tanks than tanks, just as long now white damage / accuracy would be much different for Rangers v. Non-Rangers.

I think it would be silly that 48 non-tank classes could use a shield while not be able to use the most basic move of a shield (active block).

How would a non-tank class use a shield though? Wouldnt that have to be extremely class specific? Like a Ranger using a shield do you mean?

Any class can use any weapon

Child Item