Greetings, glorious testers!
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
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Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
Yes, vent out! Show off your true pathetic colors! Expose your baseless insignificant subjective opinions!
Try as hard as you can to push your ridiculous assumption of what you believe P2W to be!
Go ahead cry as loud are you are able to that 0 Stats costumes are pay 2 win and that they are the nemesis of RP people(As if speaking for all of them).
I just love to see your struggle, it's simple amusing to watch.
Aren't we all sinners?
As far as I'm concerned, if the money shop never steps foot in the realm of gameplay that's a limit I'm okay with.
I think most of us, here, have no problem accepting that some people feel the store impacts their playing experience in a negative way.
We just have an issue with the absurd definition of P2W in the OP.
There will be people who have issues with some of the features (or lack of features) in Ashes.
Can't please all of the people all of the time.
Some people will be disappointed by some of the design goals. That's life.
Straight from the mouth of the pot.
But... again... that is not a stance people have taken. You can straw man argue that 24/7; it's still going to remain a fallacy.
What people have told you is that because cosmetics don't affect number scores, it's not P2W.
You'd have a better title if it said, "Cosmetic Shop is P4 Convenience".
Cosmetics objectively do not help you win anything. Any reasonable person would concede that. That you refuse to concede it makes you a dishonest interlocuter.
I think most of us here, if not all of us, understand that you feel the cosmetics shop intereferes with the way you want appearance progression to work. Just as some people feel Corruption interferes with they want PvP to work. Some people feel no separate PvE servers interferes with the way they want PvE to work. Some people feel no DPS meters interferes with the way they want raids to work.
Disagreeing about which features we want in Ashes, as well as disagreeing about which features we don't want in Ashes, doesn't mean we don't see life from someone else's point of view.
Just because I like chocolate doesn't mean that I can't understand and accept that some other person doesn't like chocolate. But, when the person is calling an apple chocolate, I'm going to tell them, "Apples are not chocolate." Doesn't matter how many times they tell me why they don't like chocolate. It's fine if they don't like chocolate - can't please all of the people all of the time.
But, that doesn't make an apple chocolate.
If, for whatever reason, you wish to believe an apple is choclate rather than a fruit... go ahead. But, you won't convince other people that the apple is really chocolate.
We can still accept that for you chocolate tastes nasty. We can even accept that for you apples taste nasty.
And still apples are not the same thing as chocolate. Even though they are similar in that they are things people eat.
Well...yeah... I'm going to keep throwing my money at this game when I see something I wish to purchase because I want to reward the devs for working on gameplay features I want to to exprience in an MMORPG.
So that, even if this game becomes vaporware, the devs have gained the work experience that will help them create similar features for whatever MMORPG project they work on next.
Especially since some of the devs are friends of mine.
The devs don't have to convince me that they need more of money.
I've already been able to play more of Ashes than I have some other MMORPGs I followed and supported.
I probably pay as much for Ashes cosmetics per year as I hand out to homeless people each year, so... it's not that big of a deal.
No one is forcing you to pay for cosmetics. If you don't want to purchase cosmetics, don't purchase cosmetics. There's not even any pressure to purchase cosmetics... as there might be pressure to keep up with P2W gear that allows others to excel at combat in a manner that people who don't purchase the gear can't excel.
P2W has a limited and fairly objective meaning. I mean...all word definitions are subjective to some degree.
Words are symbolic.
But... no...cosmetics are not P2W. Most people, if not all, will reject the suggestion that cosmetics are P2W.
Many people accept that you don't like cash shops and that you feel Ashes shouldn't have one. We even accept that you feel the cash shop is a detriment. Plenty have said, "Yep...I'd prefer there wasn't one, but... it's not as bad as P2W."
I’ll say it one last time, if cosmetics weren’t a vital part of gameplay experience, Steven wouldn’t have justified the cash shop not being p2w by saying the “best looking” cosmetics are those in game, disregarding any logic that taste in appearance is subjective.
Doesn't matter whether taste in appearance is subjective. Especially since we can customize gear in ways we can't with skins.
The quotes I see from Steven are:
"The most grand looking cosmetics will be from in-game achievment only."
"The best skins will be in-game achievable (obviously “best” is subjective, so I’d say the most ornate and detailed/unique)."
Its amazing that we agree on something for once lmao. Cheers dude.
Oh. My. God. omg. I was just kidding with what I said last night. But I just got the call from Steven congratulating me. Turns out the exact combination of skins that I have bought was the winning combination!
Asmongold's org is already trying to recruit me. Got 100 Thieves on hold right now. Shroud wants to hang out and discuss future plans. OMG
Hey Dygz. Shoulda been nice to me before I got famous BEEYOTTTTCCCCCHHHHH
I removed a lot of the fluff because these are the two points I want to address. First of all, just because you choose to determine what you view as "winning" in an MMO as being collecting outfits does not mean anything. FF14 has one of the most expansive cash shops with most of it being items that are purely cosmetic like mounts. Literally nobody considers that pay to win because they're outfits, they don't provide you with any actual benefits to your stats except some costumes but that bonus goes away at level 30, something most players can achieve within a couple of hours and has absolutely zero impact on the game at the later levels. About the closest thing you get to pay-to-win in that game is the pre-order accessory each expansion, but even that is hardcapped to just scale to your player level, it will never be better than anything you could otherwise attain with relative ease and at milestone levels like 50, 60, 70, 80 it straight up gets outclassed by other available pieces to the point you only keep it on for the EXP buff.
Additionally, you are not paying to unlock a cosmetic that exists within the game attainable by conventional means early. It isn't like "Oh well you can grind 4 weeks for this chestpiece that looks cool, or shell out 20 dollars and have it now." which was a problem with All Points Bulletin because anybody with money to throw at the game had access to weapons and ammo on par with the best anyone else could acquire, just they didn't really need to earn it through gameplay.
I'll be frank here, in summary I would have said I don't think there's a person on this planet dumb enough to actually think the ability to purchase cosmetics, something done by pretty much every other MMO on the market as side income would be pay-to-win. However, that clearly is not the case because this forum post exists raising that exact thing. If anything, the fact they've even made sure to mention that the sets you attain in-game as a form of prestige are going to look better than cash shop items already puts them miles ahead of WoW where the main gripe over there isn't pay-to-win so much as people losing their marbles because the mounts you buy on their cash shop are always something new and have a large amount of work visible, whereas what you can earn in game are basically crappy reskins of mounts or models that have existed in the game files since 2006 roughly.
That being said, WoW does tend to get the moniker of pay-to-win by its cash shop and I don't disagree, however it's not the boosts or the cosmetics, or well it is a different type of boost. It's the fact you can spend 20 dollars, and basically RMT through Blizzard themselves because you'll get something guaranteed to sell for a price, typically about 200k. You can then use that gold you essentially bought from Blizzard to pay other players to carry you through content you can't down yourself while also getting the rewards. That is pay-to-win, some guy having a fricken costume that looks nice at best isn't pay-to-win unless your whole idea of winning in an MMO is having cosmetic items which would put you in an extreme minority of players since most people view "winning" an MMO as having beaten the hardest content in PvE, or being a legend in PvP, but most would opt for the former because PvE just is more popular among players now more than ever.
imagine if you could get to challenger in league by just buying skins
I remember spending many hours raiding just to get a particular outfit… not because of the stats always! Sometimes it was just for the looks other players would be enviously wanting.
A player with certain cosmetics was often a good indication of their skill and dedication.
Add the option to pay for skins and this aspect is changed. Now, they are either able to work hard and put in the time, or just rich…or going broke simply for an appearance.
I strongly dislike that games keep having cosmetics stores to take advantage of players. It still takes advantage of the most vulnerable players who often are a minority who will spend more money than they should.
Shame on the Ashes of Creation team for touting no pay to win while still embracing this shady sales tactic of selling cosmetics.
I’d much rather just have an upfront box cost and higher subscription even if it means I spend more money in the long run.
I likely just won’t buy cosmetics…and may just not play the game, especially if there ads we are forced to see. I’ve gamed since the 80’s and am so sick of seeing new games use cosmetics as an extra funding source.
Slimy and greedy sales tactics. Plain and simple.