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Pirate city and 0 taxes

Hello,
Can you please implement a crowdfunding system? What i mean is that you can run a 0% Tax city and everything for the upkeep is donated on voluntary basis? I guess its not for everyone, but i think this would be a great social experiment. If it works great and if it doesnt you just pull the tax lever up a bit.

My plan is to make a pirate city on the small island in the middle of the ocean if i manage to get some guys together. A free city and safe harbor for all the pirates with zero taxes ;D. Is this possible?

Comments

  • DolyemDolyem Member
    edited August 2022
    As much as I would LOVE this, I dont know how exactly it could fit into the current system unless its was put on its own island far from any actual node influences which I am still completely for

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  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    Isnt asking the devs (establishment) to build a node for pirates an anti-pirate behaviour?
    If you are a real pirate you will make a location infamous, and a place that people should avoid (without the devs assistance).
    Half serious half joking
  • FuryBladeborneFuryBladeborne Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    To be fair, xlx only asked for the option to set taxes to 0 and players (presumably citizens) can donate as they choose.
  • VeeshanVeeshan Member
    edited August 2022
    Taxes are paid for via plunder from other people boats, not sure how it work but maybe able to convert resources into tax payments instead of coins.
    or destroyed boats drop an item that can be used to generate taxes for upgrades.

    But tbh i do kinda wanna see a pirate faction/node maybe if your have a node on an island hit X rank the mayor can make it a pirate node which opens up the island to treat it like the open ocean pvp flaging on. Would give poeple objective to destroy the node if they dont want a pirate city to form there :P.

    Maybe something to think about after release for future content, wont be to hard to give option to change a node to pirate via mayor system later on that can change pvp rule set during node/vassel nodes
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Seems like you could try to create a flotilla village.
    Might not last very long.

    We'll have to see whether any coastal Nodes might progress with pirate themes.
    Could be that some of them have "pirate" Services available for the Mayor to invest in.
  • ButtercupCloverButtercupClover Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Step 1. Be mayor
    Step 2. Set taxes to 0
    Step 3. Set tax to 100% when someone wants to donate and have them buy meaningless trash
    Step 4. Watch the city fall apart because pirates don't like donating their money for other people to benefit
  • BaSkA13_BaSkA13_ Member
    edited August 2022
    It doesn't matter if this will work or not, I think this is a cool idea regardless and it applies to any node that would like to try it: pirate, coastal, island, in land, underworld or otherwise.

    Basically what the OP is asking for is a "donation jar" inside the city. So no matter if the tax is set to 0% or to the maximum % allowed, he would like the game to allow Nodes to have this donation jar so that people can directly donate gold to the node coffers. Not hard to implement, optional for mayors to add it to their city.
    🎶Galo é Galo o resto é bosta🎵
  • xlxxlx Member
    yeah its basicly just about the jar
  • I like your pirate node concept, and agree that pirates wouldn’t want it to be taxed. I do not agree, however, that a tip jar would be well-used by a bunch of dastardly pirates. That being said, I think the option to donate tax money should be available in every node. Like “generous gifts” from wealthy citizens. Maybe it can have a Largest Contributors wall in the city hall with plaques on it.

    As for the pirate node idea, I think your concept for getting the equivalent of tax income from destroyed ships (or even treasure chests / loot tables on the ocean) is a great alternative and would love to see how Intrepid could develop their own pirate node power and give them a few of their own node buildings.
  • BaSkA13_BaSkA13_ Member
    edited August 2022
    Sengarden wrote: »
    I do not agree, however, that a tip jar would be well-used by a bunch of dastardly pirates. That being said, I think the option to donate tax money should be available in every node.

    I'm confused. What's the difference between a tip jar and the "option to donate tax money"? What does "donate tax money" even mean? And how would a player abuse the tip jar, lmao?

    The question is "how to give money to the Node's coffer", which obviously can't be used by the mayor to purchase rum or gear, only to upgrade the Node itself. Also, it doesn't matter if the city has 1 million gold in its coffers if people don't bring the mats and processed goods necessary to improve it/level it up/upkeep it, as I don't think Mayors will be able to use the coffer gold to purchase items for the Node itself from the local Marketplace. Maybe it should be able to...?
    🎶Galo é Galo o resto é bosta🎵
  • SongRuneSongRune Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    BaSkA13 wrote: »
    Sengarden wrote: »
    I do not agree, however, that a tip jar would be well-used by a bunch of dastardly pirates. That being said, I think the option to donate tax money should be available in every node.

    I'm confused. What's the difference between a tip jar and the "option to donate tax money"? What does "donate tax money" even mean? And how would a player abuse the tip jar, lmao?

    I believe the point is moreso that pirates wouldn't "donate" very often at all, particularly once any form of resentment or factionalism got seeded by one person not doing their share (one of many reasons why taxes are taxes irl), not that it would be somehow abused.
    BaSkA13 wrote: »
    The question is "how to give money to the Node's coffer", which obviously can't be used by the mayor to purchase rum or gear, only to upgrade the Node itself. Also, it doesn't matter if the city has 1 million gold in its coffers if people don't bring the mats and processed goods necessary to improve it/level it up/upkeep it, as I don't think Mayors will be able to use the coffer gold to purchase items for the Node itself from the local Marketplace. Maybe it should be able to...?

    The money has to have some meaningful use, or there would be no point to taxes in the first place, right?

    I've seen suggestions recently to allow a mayor to use tax money to "commission" Caravans by placing bulk requests for resources used in node upgrades. Presumably this would pay out from taxes at some fair market rate. (Not really abusable if the purchase price is set right by the system.)

    The need for more donations of a different type doesn't really do anything to rule out the option for donating money directly, in lieu of taxes though.

    The main 'problem' with that, is that once some big donor gets the impression that some other big donor isn't doing their share, they'll stop donating themselves until they're satisfied, etc. It won't limit the lower levels of cooperation, but it will tend to limit the higher ones. That's politics and player conflict though, which Steven likes, and Ashes has no reason to prevent.
  • VoxtriumVoxtrium Member
    edited August 2022
    The donation amounts would be quite high. IS would have to calculate the gold sink generated at a node with similar player pops and level and make that the required amount to be donated for the pirate node to note decay, would have to be a monthly thing, i can't imagine it would go well unless a rather large guild came through and setlled in it who were very focused on upgrading that 1 node.

    Although it would be real cool to show up at this pirate node and see 80% of it in slums, but that is even more scope creep.
  • SongRune wrote: »
    I believe the point is moreso that pirates wouldn't "donate" very often at all, particularly once any form of resentment or factionalism got seeded by one person not doing their share

    Absolutely agree with you and like I said (on a previous comment) that's a non-issue. If nobody donates any gold, no problem at all, there's always the option to force taxes on the Node services/marketplace. I would also like to reinforce that OP's idea (a Node without taxes, only voluntary donations) can be applied in any Node, not only coastal/island/"Pirate" Nodes, and it's a good idea IMO.
    SongRune wrote: »
    The money has to have some meaningful use, or there would be no point to taxes in the first place, right?

    I've seen suggestions recently to allow a mayor to use tax money to "commission" Caravans by placing bulk requests for resources used in node upgrades. Presumably this would pay out from taxes at some fair market rate. (Not really abusable if the purchase price is set right by the system.)

    The need for more donations of a different type doesn't really do anything to rule out the option for donating money directly, in lieu of taxes though.

    Absolutely agree with you and like I said (on a previous comment) that's expected. I believe that one of the ways to spend the gold in a Node's coffer is to hire mercenaries/guards and other similar ways which only involve NPCs and to turn the resources into Node upgrades, i.e. "pay the NPCs to build shit". Commissioning requests for resources in exchange for gold makes a lot of sense too, so people can either do it for the money or do it because they want to advance that Node.
    SongRune wrote: »
    The main 'problem' with that, is that once some big donor gets the impression that some other big donor isn't doing their share, they'll stop donating themselves until they're satisfied, etc. It won't limit the lower levels of cooperation, but it will tend to limit the higher ones. That's politics and player conflict though, which Steven likes, and Ashes has no reason to prevent.

    Yeah, I don't think that's a problem at all and I don't see this being a reason not to implement the "Node tip jar".
    🎶Galo é Galo o resto é bosta🎵
  • xlxxlx Member
    edited August 2022
    All we need is that option to donate. If it works or not doesnt matter.

    And it doesnt matter if player A pays more than player B. If that would be the case then whats the point of something like that? If you check video game financing you see how huge crowdfunding gets. Sometimes they create more investment than games that dont use it. And noone is angry if you neighbor invested more than you.

    Its more like "hey i just sold a ship, i just throw a bit in" or whatever. And the other guy who barely can repair his gear doesnt have to pay anything. Maybe a week later he can do it.
  • ONLY if Jack Sparrow is the mayor!
  • tautautautau Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Heh, I have this mental image of the donation jar sitting on the ground outside a tavern and drunken dwarves using it as a urinal.
  • SongRuneSongRune Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    ONLY if Jack Sparrow is the mayor!

    And the candidates for mayor are!
    JackSparrow, Jack Sparow, Jakk Sparrow, CaptainJackSparrow, and Jack Sparroww

    Tough field this season.
  • Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    edited November 2022
    Let's try to think about this realistically with today's real community examples from other games: This already exists in EVE Online, it's full of corporations having 0% tax and the most powerful leaders pretty much pay the structure costs from his own pocket if the fees charged in services can't cover the expenses

    Yes, people do that, because quite a lot of people love having their own little kingdom, even if it's just a station.

    Learn with dad: Pirate leaders should hold a slice of the loot as SRP, the SRP can be used for hiring mercenaries in sieges

    When the mayor of such place calls for raids, calls for quests, calls for wars, the mayor can ask a small cut

    SRP: Ship Replacement Program, since ships are destructable then the guild who runs the node has to be able to replace lost ships in from fleets

    It's not hard!
    Player driven content can beat any systems by any devs from any company

    Now about asking the devs... well, you can become mayor and set to 0%, the guilds who help more will become the patron guilds of the node and they will have some treats
    https://www.ashesofcreation.wiki/Patron_guilds

    There are stock exchanges in AoC, we still wanna see how that will go
    https://www.ashesofcreation.wiki/Stock_exchange

    If the patron guild earns enough in the stock exchange it will pay off any costs for they have with the node

    Plus many other treats patron guilds will receive:
    Allocation of guild points to unlock specific node abilities for guild members.[2]
    Ability to claim an in-node guild hall. These have different perks and benefits to halls placed on freehold plots.[2]

    Be real, boys, if you can make money of it and fight better then it's worth it, even farming this kind of thing could be worth it

    Yo how all hands
    Hoist the colors high!!!!!!

    Heave ho
    Thieves and beggers
    Never shall we die

    at 0:57
  • DiamahtDiamaht Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One
    edited November 2022
    xlx wrote: »
    Hello,
    Can you please implement a crowdfunding system? What i mean is that you can run a 0% Tax city and everything for the upkeep is donated on voluntary basis? I guess its not for everyone, but i think this would be a great social experiment. If it works great and if it doesnt you just pull the tax lever up a bit.

    My plan is to make a pirate city on the small island in the middle of the ocean if i manage to get some guys together. A free city and safe harbor for all the pirates with zero taxes ;D. Is this possible?

    Hmm, if its safe for pirates then I could identify as a "merchant pirate".

    All the products in my hull would definitely not be made be me, they would definitely always be the massive hauls I get from looting those silly cry baby crafters. I'm only selling part of my stuff at Your port right now because, um, I'm in a hurry and gotta run. And in no way am I sailing off to other ports to price match for profit, I will for sure be selling the bulk of my loot at what ever price the other port offers regardless of market value, like a proper scallywag.

    I'll definitely be donating on my next stop here, thanks for setting this up for me, err us.

    You said tax free right?

    Edit: And since we are all in this together, I will for sure set all my buy orders far below market value so that you too are able to sell your well earned loot at the very first port you come to, like proper scallywags. You are welcome.

    You said tax free right?
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Tax free would also be no taxes collected by the Castles.
  • I don't see why they couldn't introduce ocean nodes in the future. (The far future haha) Different racial approaches to little floating settlements could be really cool.
  • WHIT3ROS3 wrote: »
    I don't see why they couldn't introduce ocean nodes in the future. (The far future haha) Different racial approaches to little floating settlements could be really cool.

    I don't see why not introduce sky and underground nodes.... could have a dwarven city in a mountain like Khazad-dûm
  • Are there not nodes already planned for the under realm?
  • bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Yes and the islands as well.
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
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