No specific level areas and everyone playing together

Hi,

we know, that there are no specific level areas like in most Mmos.
We know that there is some content especially for high level characters, for example bosses spawning for events or dungeons etc., but everyone is more or less playing in the same area.

That means most of the sandbox content like node wars, caravans etc. Is shared with everyone. We know that ashes will require quite some time to reach max level, so my question is what will the game do/what is planned to enable everyone playing together without blocking non maxlevel players from most of the interesting content?

Even when iam level 20 I have a fair interest in my cities caravan reaching another city, or defending my city etc, but what is the point in joining any of these activities when you die after two hits?

For me this is quite an important question that makes the games system work or break. The caravans and nodes are the key features of the game, when it's too much dominated by max level people and the rest has to play first for a month to participate in that, it's not motivating for most of the people and the result is potentially that it will fail.

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mcstackerson

I have heard that there will be things that low level players are able to do to contribute that aren't necessarily combat related, at least in some content.

I agree and wish the vertical scaling was curved in a way that more levels could play together.

Ludullu

Garrtok wrote: »

Even when iam level 20 I have a fair interest in my cities caravan reaching another city, or defending my city etc, but what is the point in joining any of these activities when you die after two hits?

That's gonna depend on gear and class balance/design. And we got 0 real info about that, so we just dunno how it'll go down. We know that sieges will have some mechanics that let lowbies help out, but we don't really know about other sources of content.

Garrtok

NiKr wrote: »

Garrtok wrote: »

Even when iam level 20 I have a fair interest in my cities caravan reaching another city, or defending my city etc, but what is the point in joining any of these activities when you die after two hits?

That's gonna depend on gear and class balance/design. And we got 0 real info about that, so we just dunno how it'll go down. We know that sieges will have some mechanics that let lowbies help out, but we don't really know about other sources of content.

I don't feel like gear and or class balance could play a role in that. Maybe with two levels difference, but not with 20.

Ludullu

Garrtok wrote: »

I don't feel like gear and or class balance could play a role in that. Maybe with two levels difference, but not with 20.

I've killed lvl60 people as lvl40 in L2. And have killed people in t5 gear while I was in t3. So I do believe it comes down to the design of those things, though they might not be the only two.

Dummo

NiKr wrote: »

Garrtok wrote: »

I don't feel like gear and or class balance could play a role in that. Maybe with two levels difference, but not with 20.

I've killed lvl60 people as lvl40 in L2. And have killed people in t5 gear while I was in t3. So I do believe it comes down to the design of those things, though they might not be the only two.

I like being able to outplay others with pure skill.

Rando88

I don't think we know the damage scaling yet. 20 levels might not be that huge of a damage increase where you'd die in 2 hits, but you can't really expect to help as much as someone who put alot more time into the game.

Veeshan

NiKr wrote: »

Garrtok wrote: »

I don't feel like gear and or class balance could play a role in that. Maybe with two levels difference, but not with 20.

I've killed lvl60 people as lvl40 in L2. And have killed people in t5 gear while I was in t3. So I do believe it comes down to the design of those things, though they might not be the only two.

I like when i killed a lvl 60 warrior in WoW as a lvl 47 hunter by kiteing him across the map twice before he died lol was doing likem 20% of the my normal dmg due to WoW having level difference dmg reduction :P

Garrtok

Can we please talk about the general problem that definetly exists, instead of discussing if someone ever killed someone with a higher level?
Of course that happend to many people, but that doesn't change that the most interesting parts in ashes are locked or at least less appealing for the majority for some time.

Strevi

If players could be like high level players in a few days, what would prevent them creating an alt on each slot they have?
I think leveling up should take a long time.

George_Black

It dont see any problems.
Probably because I value things that are hard to earn, like fine possesions, real achievements, the strength to hold your own and pave the way for your vision, being part of something big.

You on the other hand garrtok want things handed to you.
"... it's not motivating for most people..." That's you, whinging, not a fact. The reality is that people are tired of shallow mmos.

Garrtok

George_Black wrote: »

It dont see any problems.
Probably because I value things that are hard to earn, like fine possesions, real achievements, the strength to hold your own and pave the way for your vision, being part of something big.

You on the other hand garrtok want things handed to you.
"... it's not motivating for most people..." That's you, whinging, not a fact. The reality is that people are tired of shallow mmos.

Iam not talking about myself. So don't get insulting just because you assume that I want it easy, just because you want to feel special.

PherPhur

NiKr wrote: »

Garrtok wrote: »

I don't feel like gear and or class balance could play a role in that. Maybe with two levels difference, but not with 20.

I've killed lvl60 people as lvl40 in L2. And have killed people in t5 gear while I was in t3. So I do believe it comes down to the design of those things, though they might not be the only two.

I've 2'v1ed a level 60 in classic with myself and a friend, both mid level 40 druids. I think it was a warrior but I can't quite remember. Druids though... druids in classic...

And that's not even taking into account that your chance to hit decreases against higher level players by quite a bit, their stats significantly higher and their skill ranks are higher too.

I think things will be just fine. Yea you might get 1 hit as a level 20 if your fighting against a max level player but this game is clearly HEAVILY centered around group play and I have absolutely no doubt in my mind if you have a big ol group of level 20s that you can take down a max level player. At the very least you can try and CC or heal or do a little damage, it's not like you are completely invaluable. Whats the point of even having gear, levels, skill ranks, ect if everybody is just going to get homogenized.

I say if people want that then they need to go play a match based pvp game. I'm not an elitist and I have few friends, so I'm sure i'll be getting dominated. And i'm not a masochist so I won't enjoy it, but I think I stand with the majority of AoC anticipators here when I say: I am very happy that this most likely won't be the case.

George_Black

Right...

Strevi

Garrtok wrote: »

what will the game do/what is planned to enable everyone playing together without blocking non maxlevel players from most of the interesting content?

The game should be interesting at low level too.
They should add events which are restricted to players below lvl 30.

Maps could have some guard towers which provide some buffs or income to the main town or visibility on map or benefits to local farms or resource regeneration.

Attacking and defending lower level towers could be restricted to low level players only. Then veterans and new low level players will interact together sooner, before max level.

PherPhur

George_Black wrote: »

It dont see any problems.
Probably because I value things that are hard to earn, like fine possesions, real achievements, the strength to hold your own and pave the way for your vision, being part of something big.

You on the other hand garrtok want things handed to you.
"... it's not motivating for most people..." That's you, whinging, not a fact. The reality is that people are tired of shallow mmos.

What's ironic is that it actually is the source of a large amount of the motivation to level up. Get wrecked, get stronger right?

Not only that, it's a source of motivation to group up. It's a tool used to keep the MMO a multiplayer experience and not a single player one like so many others have become.

Garrtok

The thing is alot of pvp MMOs (not Wow!) offer quite early open pvp content to everyone, even in their level range. Because they still have these level areas. For example in warhammer online i can level a bit and then directly go to a pvp area and have fun. You can participate at any point of the game.
So as it is now, ashes will have a problem in achieving that. So I think it's a very valid question or discussion

George_Black

Get a load of this guy...

Garrtok

George_Black wrote: »

Get a load of this guy...

Can you please stop spamming rubbish? It's a flaw compared to other pvp games so it's important to talk about it no? Be constructive.

George_Black

It's not a flaw. You are calling it such. What other mmos are you talking about.
In no mmo could you beat a person higher lv than you.
There is no such thing as lv equalization. Some mmos beat around the bush but there are always gear strengths, ability points (the more you have, the more passives you've learned, the bigger the toolkit selection and more customization you have). There always be a difference between those that are ahead of people that are "level 20".
Even mobas now have masteries and keystones and all sorts of progression gimmicks.
Mmos always had levels and strength diffetences based on who out the effort and who didnt.

Who are you to come here and say it's a flawed design? What "PvP games" are you talking about? This is an mmo. What do you mean "we know there are no specific level areas"?
Who is we?

Who is "more or less playing the same area"?
Are you making up rules now?

Garrtok

George_Black wrote: »

"we know there are no specific level areas"?
Who is we?

Who is "more or less playing the same area"?
Are you making up rules now?

Thats basic knowledge about ashes of creation. Based on the rules of the game, there is always overlap between the players, no matter what level they have. Because of the design of the game, one node area has to have content for multiple level ranges, therefore you will always have maxlevel players with low level players in one area. For some reason I assumed "we" includes also you.

Iam talking for example about the open pvp of guild wars 2 (which uses up scaling) or warhammer online ( which has dedicated pvp areas for specific levels).

And yes of course someone with a higher level should be stronger. For me it's about the question if also more low level people can participate in a meaningful way in the major features like caravans and node sieges.

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