New Worlds Gathering/Crafting system is "S Tier" and should be replicated.

I wanted to start a discussion about the influences that AoC should be taking from to develop and implement regarding their resource gathering and crafting system.

Background: I first began playing MMORPGs in 1997 and have had time in most every major/minor MMORPG to hit the market since then. I have NEVER enjoyed resource gathering nor crafting. This displeasure also bled over into most game market/trade systems.

Disclosure: I don't love New World. If you pull my steam profile, I have only amassed 62 HRs of play time.

My point for discussion: When first playing New World's beta, the thing that stuck out the most to me was their gathering and crafting system. I genuinely ENJOY this part of the game for the first time. After 62 hours, I still have not maxed out my one character. I have only done a group "dungeon" once. And have only had a few open world PVP encounters to speak of. Still, I like playing New World because the gathering and crafting systems are so engaging. FOR ME, a game that gets my play time because of those systems truly means they must be "S Tier." Below are a few of the systems that I believe AoC should not only tale influence from, but possible just straight up copy.

GATHERING
1. You can gather/harvest almost everything you see/kill.
2. The number/type of resources (logging, mining, harvesting, skinning, fishing) is complex enough for robust crafting, but minimal enough to remain enjoyable.
3. The resource gathering action is enjoyable. The animations are well thought out. The resources don't just disappear when consumed (ex: trees falling when cut is really fun).
4. The time it takes to gather a resource is well balanced.

CRAFTING
1. The UI is immediately recognizable and user friendly.
2. Access to "recipes" comes based off of skill tier and is not tied to open world exploration/loot generated.
3. Everything you need to be a "good crafter" is outlined within the crafting station. All information about how and what you will gain as a result of crafting is in a one stop shop.
4. Crafting randomization is present, but much of it can be "tuned" out by including additional tweaks/pumps of resources to get what you want reliably.

I am curious as to the communities thoughts on the direction AoC should take for resource gathering/crafting and what other game's systems you feel should be heavily influenced.

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Comments

Ludullu

I agree with all of those except for "everything is farmable". I agree with Intrepid's stance on rare/scarce resources.

But just a question for you. You've played a ton of mmos. How many of them you've played for hundreds or thousands of hours? And could it be that you liked the surface lvl of NW's systems (due to you not leveling it to the max) and didn't get to a point where you might've disliked the endgame gameplay of it? And could it be that all those other mmos whose systems you didn't like were the ones that you might've played for much longer and got way deeper into?

Sapiverenus

I checked it out and I really don't think running around from place to place gathering stuff in seconds makes any sense. They have you gathering hundreds of some item just to make one thing it looks like;
Just make it one source lol. What is this Berry Picking design.
I'm no Berry Picker. Or Bee.

Hatham

Sapiverenus wrote: »

I checked it out and I really don't think running around from place to place gathering stuff in seconds makes any sense. They have you gathering hundreds of some item just to make one thing it looks like;
Just make it one source lol. What is this Berry Picking design.
I'm no Berry Picker. Or Bee.

well you do that anyway - except its just very scarce.

The reason the gathering nw is good is because it uses all the actual environment and not just some random tree in the middle of a forest that cant be touched and never changes. I do agree that they are two different gathering systems.

Btw archeage used the same a similar system in terms of everything being almost intractable and you clear almost all of a forest in the same manor as nw (since aoc is a spiritual successor)

bloodprophet

Several of the Intrepid team members are big fans of the old game Star Wars galaxies and how they did crafting and are working towards a system similar to it.
Having different resources having different qualities and so forth can lead to a richer crafting pool.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Gathering

Mag7spy

I wouldnt say S tier but it has some good qualities to it.

Vyril

The best part about NW gathering is that PvP potential, and everywhere in the world something could be gathered, making the world feel VERY populated. (until bots and the game died)

They ruined the game changing it to play like WoW and not going the way of AoC.

Fohlenbraten

I strongly disagree with NWs approach that everybody can geather and craft everything. Players need to be able to specialize on a certain area / jobto be a needed member of the economy and interaction between people is engaged...

The gathering mechanics are fine in New World thats all...

Talents

The sound design is great, but that's basically it IMO. I really dislike for example how every tree is gatherable, at the start it's cool but then it feels like a gimmick after the first 10 minutes.

BaSkA_9x2

I agree New World crafting is indeed good, but it can be improved in a variety of ways.

Making a thorough crafting system is not easy, but I hope that Ashes gets inspiration from many other games and make something truly interesting and not a chore to make gold.

WHIT3ROS3

Talents wrote: »

The sound design is great, but that's basically it IMO. I really dislike for example how every tree is gatherable, at the start it's cool but then it feels like a gimmick after the first 10 minutes.

I can't believe people in 2022 want a new "next gen" MMORPG to have 90's mechanics when it comes to environmental interaction. Large amounts of lumber will be needed for the creation of caravans, ships and buildings (all of which can be destroyed so there will be an endless demand). Never mind immersion and feeling like you are in a proper sandbox.

One of the most appealing aspects of AoC is its sandbox element. Other Themepark MMO's don't have great gathering systems IMO because of their railroad story-driven nature. (and the fact they are all running on old engines) New Worlds Gathering was great in many ways and was a strong sandbox element and I think Verra as a world should be as "interactable" as possible.

Dygz

NW gathering feels great - for an MMO Survival Game.
I don't even really care about player economy, but... the Ashes player economy would be totally fucked with the NW gathering and crafting design.

WHIT3ROS3

I'd seriously suggest people look at the likes of Albion Online to see how a system of being able to gather anything is entirely possible. How would the economy be fucked if you had a base "Tier 1 rough logs" gatherable used in the crafting of Caravans, Buildings, Furniture and Ships?

The amount of "ticks" on a tree would depend on how long it had been standing. You then have different specific types of trees that you can place amongst these trees or over certain areas start to spawn when a Node progresses unlocking higher tiers of tree.

Enchanted versions and rare types of trees would be amongst this base tier 1 "rough logs" There are multiple reasons you want this.

Sapiverenus

Hatham wrote: »

well you do that anyway - except its just very scarce.

The reason the gathering nw is good is because it uses all the actual environment and not just some random tree in the middle of a forest that cant be touched and never changes. I do agree that they are two different gathering systems.

Btw archeage used the same a similar system in terms of everything being almost intractable and you clear almost all of a forest in the same manor as nw (since aoc is a spiritual successor)

Having the environment be resources is good.

I'd like singular resources be more significant by nature of their volume/ quantity and labor/ processing required.

If it helps; imagine standing on a hill behind a rock and seeing, somewhat far off, a large group of people slowly chopping trees and calling out Timber when one falls; then dragging the thing slowly by Mule and Manpower to the road to be sledded and taken to the Mill.

That's a World. Other MMOs aren't.

LordPax

WHIT3ROS3 wrote: »

I'd seriously suggest people look at the likes of Albion Online to see how a system of being able to gather anything is entirely possible. How would the economy be fucked if you had a base "Tier 1 rough logs" gatherable used in the crafting of Caravans, Buildings, Furniture and Ships?

The amount of "ticks" on a tree would depend on how long it had been standing. You then have different specific types of trees that you can place amongst these trees or over certain areas start to spawn when a Node progresses unlocking higher tiers of tree.

Enchanted versions and rare types of trees would be amongst this base tier 1 "rough logs" There are multiple reasons you want this.

Ok, so I have not played Albion, but I definitely like this line of thinking. I hope that AoC can be a combination of the BEST parts of ARK, EVE, Albion, New World, WoW, and SWTOR - all of these have amazing mechanics that should be cherry picked. Either way, I think Intrepid has done an amazing job of showing their willingness to adapt already(i.e. new Map size). I can guarantee you that during Alpha 2, they will listen to feedback and change. I would bet money that Beta 1/2 will be an entirely different game than start of Alpha 2.

Ludullu

LordPax wrote: »

Ok, so I have not played Albion, but I definitely like this line of thinking. I hope that AoC can be a combination of the BEST parts of ARK, EVE, Albion, New World, WoW, and SWTOR - all of these have amazing mechanics that should be cherry picked. Either way, I think Intrepid has done an amazing job of showing their willingness to adapt already(i.e. new Map size). I can guarantee you that during Alpha 2, they will listen to feedback and change. I would bet money that Beta 1/2 will be an entirely different game than start of Alpha 2.

Not if my feedback for keeping resources limited is louder and more abundant!!

akabear

New World was the best experience of crafting and gathering I have had to date.
Only criticism would be the balancing of the quantity availability of those materials, which I hope AoC gets right

WHIT3ROS3

LordPax wrote: »

Not if my feedback for keeping resources limited is louder and more abundant!!

Not all resources should be limited. High-value, rare, and enchanted resources should be limited and they should spawn in dangerous and difficult-to-navigate places.

Having base materials for Wood, Stone, Ore, Hide and Flax would give players a choice when it comes to gathering. Do you want to take a broad and basic approach and farm large amounts of relatively common materials? Or do you want to be super selective and search out the rarest examples?

How do people think Ships should be crafted? Ships that can be destroyed and some of which are big enough to hold entire raid groups? The amount of Basic Lumber, Iron and cloth needed for a single ship should be massive.

Then you have caravans, buildings and furniture. (Never mind gear which could use basic materials as well as specialized materials)

You just need to make sure that you have a sufficient matrix of materials that provide interdependencies between different locations. To have a strong crafting economy there needs to be many ways in which stuff can be lost, so there is continual demand.

Ludullu

WHIT3ROS3 wrote: »

How do people think Ships should be crafted? Ships that can be destroyed and some of which are big enough to hold entire raid groups? The amount of Basic Lumber, Iron and cloth needed for a single ship should be massive.

As far as I know ships were built with the longest possible pieces of wood, so only the tallest trees would apply, which to me sounds like a "special" tree that needs to be chopped and not a random trash tree that gives you plain wood.

WHIT3ROS3 wrote: »

Then you have caravans, buildings and furniture. (Never mind gear which could use basic materials as well as specialized materials)

Caravans and buildings are supposed to be super sturdy and furniture luxurious-looking or race-specialized. Both of those sound like they'd require special kinds of trees.

WHIT3ROS3 wrote: »

You just need to make sure that you have a sufficient matrix of materials that provide interdependencies between different locations. To have a strong crafting economy there needs to be many ways in which stuff can be lost, so there is continual demand.

And all the stuff will be lost in caravan/ship attacks and sieges. But none of it requires me to have 10k plain wood instead of 100 specialized one.

Sathrago

What some people seem to not understand is that making all trees gatherable doesn't "break" the economy by itself. It requires balancing on the crafting and refinement side. Because there are an unlimited amount of basic trees, or t1 trees, they would make the bulk of crafts that require tons of wood in addition to all of the basic low tier/lvl crafts/refinements. Then you scale up the rarity of t2 trees and lower the quantity needed for crafting with those, and you keep scaling up rarity and scaling down quantity until you are at a point where the highest rarity of material is very rare and low in quantity. All of this can be achieved within a world where every tree can be chopped, but most trees are not of this higher rarity that is required for the higher quality crafts.

WHIT3ROS3

NiKr wrote: »

WHIT3ROS3 wrote: »

As far as I know ships were built with the longest possible pieces of wood, so only the tallest trees would apply, which to me sounds like a "special" tree that needs to be chopped and not a random trash tree that gives you plain wood.

That isn't true, but regardless. Random trash tree? This is a game. Games have abstract mechanisms to simulate real-world actions. They aren't 1 for 1. Why? Because that would be tedious and make no sense within the context of a game that has a heavy emphasis on sandbox elements. There are so many things that would require large amounts of wood. Ships, Caravans, Gear, Buildings, Furniture, Siege/War Machines.

How do you think these should be crafted? Does everyone have a single special type of tree? Only certain trees can be interacted with? Sounds like early 90's game design to me.

Caravans and buildings are supposed to be super sturdy and furniture luxurious-looking or race-specialized. Both of those sound like they'd require special kinds of trees.

Like ships, I don't think you have the slightest idea of how furniture is made.

And all the stuff will be lost in caravan/ship attacks and sieges. But none of it requires me to have 10k plain wood instead of 100 specialized one.[/quote]

It's relative. It depends on crafting and refining. If, for example, a single level 1 axe takes 1 wooden plank (refined from rough wood) Then a Galleon Should take 10000+ wooden planks (plus other stuff) to craft.

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