Possible exploit with pvp flagging and looting.

I was reading about corruption on the wiki and I read that "Player flagging is not triggered by looting".

I (wearing easily replaceable equipment) will have my homie follow me around whilst i butcher and wring the tears from the peasantry. Homie loots everything, while i loot nothing so that we can minimize any losses from bounty hunters or stat dampening that results in my death. This strategy would imbalance the risk/reward of ganking for profit.

The rule "Player flagging is not triggered by looting" needs to be changed to prevent the above exploit.

In addition, I think the ability to loot any kill, but especially a player kill should be limited to only those involved in the combat to prevent scavengers trying to loot while others fight.

Edit: It seems the mob tagging system would prevent this.

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George_Black

You wont kill anybody.
If you wear weak gear the "peasantry" will turn around and 1-shoot you and then take good care of your homie.

Unless you imagine that eveeybody is a worse player than you. In that case, would bad players have anything valuable to drop?

Nothing needs to be changed. This system is taken from Lineage 2, a popular mmo since 2003.
What's wrong with scavengers cashing in on the opportunity?
Nothing. It makes for more intrresting social gaming, where actions and reputation matter.
Somebody may be a nice person and give the loot back. Others might care for a small profit and put a permanent target on their back for being greedy.
Those suggestions will cause bad, antisocial, mechanical restrictions.

Ludullu

You'll still suffer corruption related stat dampening and huge XP losses. The solo players that you might be able to kill will most likely not even have that valuable of a loot in the first place, so you'd pretty much just waste your time.

And in case they do have anything valuable, I'd assume a fair bit of them will just fight back if they see 2 dudes going to kill them. And considering that your friend will be green, the victim will be able to flag on him.

There's also the fact that you'll be using shit gear and amassing corruption, so there's a high chance that someone who can gather valuable stuff would be stronger than you (due to your shitty gear and stat dampen), so they might just fight back against you, in case you want to keep your friend at a distance so that your victims don't flag up.

And in pretty much any other case, people will either be grouped up or at least have some protector friend, if they decided to go gather valuable resources.

As for looting stuff, I'd prefer the player loot to be scavengeable by anyone cause that would help with the exploit of "my friend kills me and loots my stuff because only he can do it".

Sapiverenus

yeah it's easily exploitable. Such as body blocking the shit out of someone while you and your body-block crew secretly have 1 HP so you can insta-corrupt someone LOL

Sapiverenus

Then get the 2 guys that are kitted out to smash him to pieces

George_Black

Sapiverenus wrote: »

yeah it's easily exploitable. Such as body blocking the shit out of someone while you and your body-block crew secretly have 1 HP so you can insta-corrupt someone LOL

Dip your tongue into your brain before you post anymore. You are in the top 5 in terms of relevance and I've seen some rly irrelevant ppl posting. You managed that in only a month.

BaSkA_9x2

Nuub wrote: »

I think the ability to loot any kill, but especially a player kill should be limited to only those involved in the combat to prevent scavengers trying to loot while others fight.

Agree with you that only the parties involved in a (PvP) fight should be able to loot whatever gets dropped, as in the killers can loot their victims and the victims can see if there's anything leftover on their bodies). Scavengers ("looters"), i.e. third parties that look for PvP leftover loot, are not healthy for MMOs and can make way for some problems, like the possible exploit you pointed out, and even things like botting/automation.

Disagree with you regarding removing the ability to steal mob's loot from other players. I think that a 60~120 seconds timer for the party that killed the mob to loot it is enough, maybe increase this timer for open world dungeon/raid bosses, but still I hope that it will be possible to steal someone else's (PvE) loot.

At the end of the day, you can rest assured people will find ways to abuse and exploit every system in the game, let's just hope that most of that happens during Alpha/Beta and that people actually report it instead of being spineless tryhards.

Sapiverenus

George_Black wrote: »

Sapiverenus wrote: »

yeah it's easily exploitable. Such as body blocking the shit out of someone while you and your body-block crew secretly have 1 HP so you can insta-corrupt someone LOL

Dip your tongue into your brain before you post anymore. You are in the top 5 in terms of relevance and I've seen some rly irrelevant ppl posting. You managed that in only a month.

Are you saying I have a good brain and should speak it more?

Noaani

Sapiverenus wrote: »

yeah it's easily exploitable. Such as body blocking the shit out of someone while you and your body-block crew secretly have 1 HP so you can insta-corrupt someone LOL

Sapiverenus wrote: »

Then get the 2 guys that are kitted out to smash him to pieces

So, I'm waiting to hear the exploit.

You and your "body-block crew" walk around on low HP trying to body block, and just get pushed out of the way. I mean, it isnt as if Intrepid would develop a system where players can just block paths by standing there afk. Player collision is a thing, but so is momentum.

There are player and spell collision mechanics in Ashes of Creation. Inertia and momentum physics will help prevent blocking doorways/access points.

Gizban

BaSkA13 wrote: »

Nuub wrote: »

I think the ability to loot any kill, but especially a player kill should be limited to only those involved in the combat to prevent scavengers trying to loot while others fight.

Agree with you that only the parties involved in a (PvP) fight should be able to loot whatever gets dropped, as in the killers can loot their victims and the victims can see if there's anything leftover on their bodies). Scavengers ("looters"), i.e. third parties that look for PvP leftover loot, are not healthy for MMOs and can make way for some problems, like the possible exploit you pointed out, and even things like botting/automation.

Disagree with you regarding removing the ability to steal mob's loot from other players. I think that a 60~120 seconds timer for the party that killed the mob to loot it is enough, maybe increase this timer for open world dungeon/raid bosses, but still I hope that it will be possible to steal someone else's (PvE) loot.

At the end of the day, you can rest assured people will find ways to abuse and exploit every system in the game, let's just hope that most of that happens during Alpha/Beta and that people actually report it instead of being spineless tryhards.

So you want your hand held?

If a gatherer suggests a gimmick to lessen his loss to pvp there's a turd storm, but here we have a pvper wanting protections against loss to pvp.
Maybe you should hire a merc to guard your victim's corpse.

Really?

Gizban

Nuub wrote: »

I was reading about corruption on the wiki and I read that "Player flagging is not triggered by looting".

I (wearing easily replaceable equipment) will have my homie follow me around whilst i butcher and wring the tears from the peasantry. Homie loots everything, while i loot nothing so that we can minimize any losses from bounty hunters or stat dampening that results in my death. This strategy would imbalance the risk/reward of ganking for profit.

The rule "Player flagging is not triggered by looting" needs to be changed to prevent the above exploit.

In addition, I think the ability to loot any kill, but especially a player kill should be limited to only those involved in the combat to prevent scavengers trying to loot while others fight.

Edit: It seems the mob tagging system would prevent this.

Sounds reasonable.

One thing we know for sure: if you give an inch, they'll take a mile

BaSkA_9x2

pyreal wrote: »

BaSkA13 wrote: »

Nuub wrote: »

I think the ability to loot any kill, but especially a player kill should be limited to only those involved in the combat to prevent scavengers trying to loot while others fight.

Agree with you that only the parties involved in a (PvP) fight should be able to loot whatever gets dropped, as in the killers can loot their victims and the victims can see if there's anything leftover on their bodies). Scavengers ("looters"), i.e. third parties that look for PvP leftover loot, are not healthy for MMOs and can make way for some problems, like the possible exploit you pointed out, and even things like botting/automation.

Disagree with you regarding removing the ability to steal mob's loot from other players. I think that a 60~120 seconds timer for the party that killed the mob to loot it is enough, maybe increase this timer for open world dungeon/raid bosses, but still I hope that it will be possible to steal someone else's (PvE) loot.

At the end of the day, you can rest assured people will find ways to abuse and exploit every system in the game, let's just hope that most of that happens during Alpha/Beta and that people actually report it instead of being spineless tryhards.

So you want your hand held?

If a gatherer suggests a gimmick to lessen his loss to pvp there's a turd storm, but here we have a pvper wanting protections against loss to pvp.
Maybe you should hire a merc to guard your victim's corpse.

Really?

What are you even talking about? Did you quote the right person? If you did, are you sure you read what I said?

Bitch please, I'm the last person who wants a game to hold my hand, my main game today is Rust. Where did I ask for "protection against loss to PvP"? Maybe you think I want my PvP loot to be protected so only I can pick it up, which shows you clearly missed the part where I said "the victim should be able to go back to their body and loot their own body" if I take too long.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough, so let me rephrase: I think it's a good idea if PvP loot (whatever is dropped when someone is killed) is only lootable by the killer and the victim (if the killer left anything behind).

Now, sure, if I got killed by someone else before looting your dead body, it'd be cool if my killer could maybe loot both our bodies or even remove the ability from me to loot your body altogether after coming back, why not?

The only reason why I agreed with OP's idea on this is to remove my ability of murdering you, not looting your shit and letting my friends out of party loot your dead body, so they'll get all your resources without getting any of the corruption.

Please don't get me wrong though, I couldn't care less if anyone is able to steal/scavenge third party PvP loot: I'll still corruption bait gankers and murder gatherers on a daily basis. However, I would prefer if PKers weren't able to exploit the corruption system by letting their friends pick up the loot without the risk of corruption.

Cheers

Nuub

I fuckin told ya

Noaani

Adding flagging to looting is still the worst possible reaction to what has been happening.

In many ways, players looting corpses of players they had no hand in killing is a good thing. It generates player friction in a way that is actually disproportionate to the in game effect - ie, players get more pissed off about this than their loss would suggest they should.

This is a really good thing that the game kind of needs. Better generating that friction over something that is easy to recover from in game, than over something that isn't as easy.

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