Mag7spy wrote: » Personally rolling is boring and over done, different classes or armor types should have a mix of different motions. That way there is some flare and identity to different types and not every single class is doing the roll animation.
Halae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Personally rolling is boring and over done, different classes or armor types should have a mix of different motions. That way there is some flare and identity to different types and not every single class is doing the roll animation. Hmm. Neverwinter did something similar to what you're suggesting, but it had the problem of some classes having blatantly superior dodge mechanics over others due to the structure of the game. If it was just an animation change and it all worked mechanically the same, sure, I could get behind, but I wouldn't want to give any class an advantage in a basic universal mechanic.
Mag7spy wrote: » Some classes should have better dodges, like rangers and rogues for example. It also depends on the design for it, you could have different animations and have them move the same distance rough but I wouldn't recommend that. Based on the class and what it does there should be different dodges. Example Like warrior might have the roll or something and can move in any distance and the same amount. But Ranger can't forward dash, but their back dash is a bit longer and their side dashes are longer as well.
Azherae wrote: » Simply, I believe that dodge rolls should not have iFrames, because rolling is for movement first. I did like what I SEEMED to experience in Alpha-1 where it reduced damage taken from AoE, but I don't remember if I could roll INTO the enemy. Could depend on the AoE. In a world where one is fighting huge dragons and such, dodge rolling makes a lot of sense because those sorts of things often attack with weight and force and your primary option for survival is to get out of the way so if Ashes must choose one, knowing that 'big AoE' PvE will likely be 'most focused/interesting' relative to that enemy type, I say 'rolls'. Sidesteps and hops are separate because they can't send you forward, and for some things, it's balanced. If you're in PvP and are a very martial class, you are probably blocking or using a special ability dash, and even if you did roll, if it had no iFrames, you would only use it when you expected the same sort of big attack, or if you wanted to cover a lot of distance, which is what rolls are for.
LordBlank wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Simply, I believe that dodge rolls should not have iFrames, because rolling is for movement first. I did like what I SEEMED to experience in Alpha-1 where it reduced damage taken from AoE, but I don't remember if I could roll INTO the enemy. Could depend on the AoE. In a world where one is fighting huge dragons and such, dodge rolling makes a lot of sense because those sorts of things often attack with weight and force and your primary option for survival is to get out of the way so if Ashes must choose one, knowing that 'big AoE' PvE will likely be 'most focused/interesting' relative to that enemy type, I say 'rolls'. Sidesteps and hops are separate because they can't send you forward, and for some things, it's balanced. If you're in PvP and are a very martial class, you are probably blocking or using a special ability dash, and even if you did roll, if it had no iFrames, you would only use it when you expected the same sort of big attack, or if you wanted to cover a lot of distance, which is what rolls are for. I agree with ith you but I can see why they put it there since most abilities track their target. What would be the point in dodging if range abilities can curve and track toward you?
Azherae wrote: » LordBlank wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Simply, I believe that dodge rolls should not have iFrames, because rolling is for movement first. I did like what I SEEMED to experience in Alpha-1 where it reduced damage taken from AoE, but I don't remember if I could roll INTO the enemy. Could depend on the AoE. In a world where one is fighting huge dragons and such, dodge rolling makes a lot of sense because those sorts of things often attack with weight and force and your primary option for survival is to get out of the way so if Ashes must choose one, knowing that 'big AoE' PvE will likely be 'most focused/interesting' relative to that enemy type, I say 'rolls'. Sidesteps and hops are separate because they can't send you forward, and for some things, it's balanced. If you're in PvP and are a very martial class, you are probably blocking or using a special ability dash, and even if you did roll, if it had no iFrames, you would only use it when you expected the same sort of big attack, or if you wanted to cover a lot of distance, which is what rolls are for. I agree with ith you but I can see why they put it there since most abilities track their target. What would be the point in dodging if range abilities can curve and track toward you? Because in many games, there's a limit to how far those abilities 'curve'. There's a cone, even if you're tabbed, for some games, and you could just roll out of that range and the ability would not hit you anymore. You could roll behind cover. You could roll behind your tank. All these things should still work just fine even if there are literal homing arrows. Usually, rolling is faster than running or walking, and costs stamina to do, in my experience.
LordBlank wrote: » Azherae wrote: » LordBlank wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Simply, I believe that dodge rolls should not have iFrames, because rolling is for movement first. I did like what I SEEMED to experience in Alpha-1 where it reduced damage taken from AoE, but I don't remember if I could roll INTO the enemy. Could depend on the AoE. In a world where one is fighting huge dragons and such, dodge rolling makes a lot of sense because those sorts of things often attack with weight and force and your primary option for survival is to get out of the way so if Ashes must choose one, knowing that 'big AoE' PvE will likely be 'most focused/interesting' relative to that enemy type, I say 'rolls'. Sidesteps and hops are separate because they can't send you forward, and for some things, it's balanced. If you're in PvP and are a very martial class, you are probably blocking or using a special ability dash, and even if you did roll, if it had no iFrames, you would only use it when you expected the same sort of big attack, or if you wanted to cover a lot of distance, which is what rolls are for. I agree with ith you but I can see why they put it there since most abilities track their target. What would be the point in dodging if range abilities can curve and track toward you? Because in many games, there's a limit to how far those abilities 'curve'. There's a cone, even if you're tabbed, for some games, and you could just roll out of that range and the ability would not hit you anymore. You could roll behind cover. You could roll behind your tank. All these things should still work just fine even if there are literal homing arrows. Usually, rolling is faster than running or walking, and costs stamina to do, in my experience. This just sounds like an excuse because you don't like rolling or dodging. The simple fact is that if I dodge out of the way and the ability curve is the problem. I wouldn't mind not having any damage reduction if abilities didn't curve. We will also have to see how the tracking will work in real combat and against other players. I know we saw a little bit of it in the range video but that was against mobs. I want to see what it will look like against other players in Alpha 2. If I'm playing against another player and I dodge or roll around a tree or rock and it curves with me, that really feels bad. It feels worse than those complaining about no-tab targeting and pro-tracking of targets. People shouldn't have to spec into evasion in order just to avoid the in-game aim assist. That would be a waste of skill points.
Scarbeus wrote: » The animation and distance could be based on armour and race. It makes sense to me that The bigger you are or the heavier your armour that rolling would be difficult and so a quick sidestep would be for you. The smaller, lighter and more nimble you are then a roll. However Dwarves are small yet a quick side dash would be more suitable I think.
Azherae wrote: » LordBlank wrote: » Azherae wrote: » LordBlank wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Simply, I believe that dodge rolls should not have iFrames, because rolling is for movement first. I did like what I SEEMED to experience in Alpha-1 where it reduced damage taken from AoE, but I don't remember if I could roll INTO the enemy. Could depend on the AoE. In a world where one is fighting huge dragons and such, dodge rolling makes a lot of sense because those sorts of things often attack with weight and force and your primary option for survival is to get out of the way so if Ashes must choose one, knowing that 'big AoE' PvE will likely be 'most focused/interesting' relative to that enemy type, I say 'rolls'. Sidesteps and hops are separate because they can't send you forward, and for some things, it's balanced. If you're in PvP and are a very martial class, you are probably blocking or using a special ability dash, and even if you did roll, if it had no iFrames, you would only use it when you expected the same sort of big attack, or if you wanted to cover a lot of distance, which is what rolls are for. I agree with ith you but I can see why they put it there since most abilities track their target. What would be the point in dodging if range abilities can curve and track toward you? Because in many games, there's a limit to how far those abilities 'curve'. There's a cone, even if you're tabbed, for some games, and you could just roll out of that range and the ability would not hit you anymore. You could roll behind cover. You could roll behind your tank. All these things should still work just fine even if there are literal homing arrows. Usually, rolling is faster than running or walking, and costs stamina to do, in my experience. This just sounds like an excuse because you don't like rolling or dodging. The simple fact is that if I dodge out of the way and the ability curve is the problem. I wouldn't mind not having any damage reduction if abilities didn't curve. We will also have to see how the tracking will work in real combat and against other players. I know we saw a little bit of it in the range video but that was against mobs. I want to see what it will look like against other players in Alpha 2. If I'm playing against another player and I dodge or roll around a tree or rock and it curves with me, that really feels bad. It feels worse than those complaining about no-tab targeting and pro-tracking of targets. People shouldn't have to spec into evasion in order just to avoid the in-game aim assist. That would be a waste of skill points. I'm not sure if you mean me personally or not, so I'm going to assume you don't mean me and answer this relative to Intrepid design as I experienced it. Enemies don't seem to have 'projectile attacks' as often, and they can't 'know you're going to dodge' the way a player can, so they fire off their abilities without 'aiming'. This also means they use a few more 'ground lines' and so on. Those abilities would then be blocked by terrain if you rolled, and whether or not they hit you anyway if you didn't get behind something would be up to the ability and their design style. Ground Lines and other things like that, the roll does the job by getting out of the way, and the damage reduction is the reward for 'doing the right thing but not quickly enough'.
CROW3 wrote: » I’d want a base level roll / quick step. If there’s a skill, maybe it adds 1 more roll before cooldown. Or a reduction to stamina cost, benefit to roll speed, etc. Nothing too OP, but enough to justify the skill point.
