Artisan Class Restriction.

I don't really see a point in limiting the 2-3 master professions to the same artisan class.
All it does is force your mining and metalworking to be done on two different characters.
If it's not going to be account bound can we just have 2-3 master professions across all 3 artisan classes?
I don't mind forcing alts but if the only crafting profession I want is armor smithing than the other 2 professions I'm allowed to have are useless.
If I want to have a master miner, metalworker, and armor smith I need 3 characters.
But if I want a master miner, lumberjack, and herbalist, I only need 1 character.
It doesn't prevent me from doing it, it just requires more time investment.

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Ludullu

I'd personally love to see the NW approach. Just let everyone do everything. I'm sure that would in no way impact the planned economy or gameplay.

Hinotori

NiKr wrote: »

I'd personally love to see the NW approach. Just let everyone do everything. I'm sure that would in no way impact the planned economy or gameplay.

blul

You gotta have a different approach on the thing itself. Look at it as a lifetime profession. IRL you're probably a Blacksmith, so your artisan class is Crafting.
As a Blacksmith you work for 20 years to master your profession. After 20 years of smithing anything from horseshoes to iron kettles you decide to try something new: Armor Smithing. Well, you are in your 40s already and can adapt to a different workflow pretty quickly, but you eventually will never be an Armor Smith as good as some guy who startet Armor Smithing in his 20s.
Thereby you'll never be able to be a great Gahterer or Processor since everything you've ever done was Blacksmithing. For me it is only logical that a person can only truly master one Profession within one Artisan Class and maybe become pretty good in the same field of work.
And I personally don't believe that Intrepid intended this as an alt-"forcing".

Electronn

I think the point is to create dependencies and interactions with other players, plus ensure the value of your mastered professions. If everyone can do everything, that's not special, and it reduces the value of your profession.

And yet I understand your point about alts.

Maybe the solution is to drop the restrictions, but make it so hard, so arduous, so tedious to become a top level master in any profession that it's really not practical or desirable for a player to do more than 2-3, even with alts. This would allow the people who want to spend 15 hours a day in Ashes to play without restriction, while still retaining the value of mastered professions.

BaSkA_9x2

worddog wrote: »

I don't really see a point in limiting the 2-3 master professions to the same artisan class.

I do: socialization, cooperation, dependency, basic economics and attrition.

Cheers

JROCthaGreat

NiKr wrote: »

I'd personally love to see the NW approach. Just let everyone do everything. I'm sure that would in no way impact the planned economy or gameplay.

NW economy was and still is Hot garbage, lol the only way you can make it so that everybody can actually eventually do everything, and it doesn't affect the economy is you have to make crafting so hard and so long. that most won't bother and even those that do, most won't get halfway threw it.

BaSkA13 wrote: »

worddog wrote: »

I don't really see a point in limiting the 2-3 master professions to the same artisan class.

I do: socialization, cooperation, dependency, basic economics and attrition.

Cheers

Exactly it has a better chance of creating a much more diverse economy. Better communities, etc. And actually its gives every server a chance to have very different economies

Voxtrium

I would actually rather see account bound profession mastery locks. Without it the people who can play 20 hours a day have a much larger advantage, not because they are grinding the loot better/harder but because they can do things other players CAN'T do. Already alts will provide some potentially significant advantages, best to limit those as much as possible imo.

Mag7spy

Voxtrium wrote: »

I would actually rather see account bound profession mastery locks. Without it the people who can play 20 hours a day have a much larger advantage, not because they are grinding the loot better/harder but because they can do things other players CAN'T do. Already alts will provide some potentially significant advantages, best to limit those as much as possible imo.

Don't agree with this, if someone is playing more that is on them. Those types always exist in any mmorpg, what id rather see in some tie in of progression not limited to just being given mats from their other character. But actual investment that takes time to increase their artisan level.

If people are more casual because of work/etc it doesn't mean there needs to be some implementations to reduce other player gains. Not every player should expect to be the strongest in the game, what is more beneficial is proper teamwork between your guild.

Summpwner

Another point to remember with the arisan classes is that you will be able to do SOME things from all of them. This isn't like WOW where you have to go learn herbalism to pick up silverleaf... every character will be able to do gathering in the early-game, and likely will be able to craft basic starter gear, and all that stuff. You can only MASTER 1 tree, 3 disciplines.... but you can try everything.

Summpwner

Voxtrium wrote: »

I would actually rather see account bound profession mastery locks. Without it the people who can play 20 hours a day have a much larger advantage, not because they are grinding the loot better/harder but because they can do things other players CAN'T do. Already alts will provide some potentially significant advantages, best to limit those as much as possible imo.

Players who do this only circumvent money changing hands, at the expense of their own time.... but is it worth their time to do that instead of just buying the crafts and selling the product?

Ludullu

JROCthaGreat wrote: »

NW economy was and still is Hot garbage, lol the only way you can make it so that everybody can actually eventually do everything, and it doesn't affect the economy is you have to make crafting so hard and so long. that most won't bother and even those that do, most won't get halfway threw it.

Which is exactly what the current system is. Yes, you can go and get your alts to level their artisanry too, but it'll take you forever. And you also won't have enough alts on one account to get all the professions to the max, so you'd have to buy another account if you really wanted to do everything. And I personally love that.

Voxtrium wrote: »

I would actually rather see account bound profession mastery locks. Without it the people who can play 20 hours a day have a much larger advantage, not because they are grinding the loot better/harder but because they can do things other players CAN'T do. Already alts will provide some potentially significant advantages, best to limit those as much as possible imo.

I'd probably be against full mastery locks, but I could see account-locking a branch of the artisan tree, so you could max out one of the three branches, but nothing else.

The time required to do that should still be huge and you'll obviously have to cooperate with a ton of other people due to how artisan interdependencies work, but at some point in time you'll reach a point where you're the master gatherer/processer/crafter of your node.

And if true nerds want to pay Intrepid more money to spend even more time on all the other professions - I say let them.

Rhorden

NiKr wrote: »

I'd personally love to see the NW approach. Just let everyone do everything. I'm sure that would in no way impact the planned economy or gameplay.

No doubt that was sarcasm but if the crafting trees are going to as laborious to become a master in, as they are implying, then why not? If it requires a very long time and loads of materials then what would they harm be in letting people do all professions? They would spend an insane amount of mats and time trying to cover them all to the point that none would achieve the end goal. The only caveat to this would be to limit the number of gathering professions. After that processing and crafting could be learned by all.

The crafting in New World is a bad joke from a bad design and isn't fitting to use as a comparison to, pretty much anything.

Ludullu

Rhorden wrote: »

No doubt that was sarcasm but if the crafting trees are going to as laborious to become a master in, as they are implying, then why not? If it requires a very long time and loads of materials then what would they harm be in letting people do all professions? They would spend an insane amount of mats and time trying to cover them all to the point that none would achieve the end goal. The only caveat to this would be to limit the number of gathering professions. After that processing and crafting could be learned by all.

Imo it's about the longevity of the game and "lategame" player reputation. Sooner or later the real nerds will start making everything on their own. And the further you go into the game's life, the more diluted the professions would become.

I could maaaybe agree with adding one mastery slot for each big expansion that adds new professions (if they ever gonna do that). This way people interested in that profession won't have to get another alt for it, while all the new players would be able to get more masteries in the long run.

Though, I haven't played OSRS so I dunno how its character progression goes, but from what I've heard you can do everything in that game but it takes you years to do so. And I'd be interested in learning how many people have achieved the mastery in all the things (if anyone even has) and what kind of impact it had on the game's economy/gameplay. But OSRS is also a fairly unique game in itself, so it'd be hard to compare its experiences to what Ashes wants to have.

George_Black

This is an mmo with an economy system. Not eso/ff14. You cant have players be selfsufficient and expect a good economy and social gameplay.

worddog2

BaSkA13 wrote: »

worddog wrote: »

I don't really see a point in limiting the 2-3 master professions to the same artisan class.

I do: socialization, cooperation, dependency, basic economics and attrition.

Cheers

But I can just do it with alts by myself... how does that add any of those things.

Ludullu

worddog wrote: »

But I can just do it with alts by myself... how does that add any of those things.

If you have the time to do it all by yourself, you're welcome to do it. Mastering just one profession would probably take at least a few weeks, and that's if you have all the proper resources to do it. Mastering several will take months and would require a huge capital or even more time. And even once you do master them all on all of your alts, you'll still need to fight others for the resources and then send them up your production chain, so it's not like it would be super easy to just do it all yourself. Or, again, you'd need a huge capital that would provide you with the resources needed.

worddog2

It seems like no one in this thread understands how much free time some players have. It'll only take like 200hrs to level to max in ashes of creation.

I'd say 3 months after launch most super hard core players will have at least one max level alt character that is a master of whatever artisan class their other character needs. After another couple months they'll have their second alt and be totally self sufficient with three characters mastering each artisan class.

Obviously most players won't do this, but for the players that will, my original post was wondering; how important we want alts to be.

worddog2

NiKr wrote: »

worddog wrote: »

But I can just do it with alts by myself... how does that add any of those things.

If you have the time to do it all by yourself, you're welcome to do it. Mastering just one profession would probably take at least a few weeks, and that's if you have all the proper resources to do it. Mastering several will take months and would require a huge capital or even more time. And even once you do master them all on all of your alts, you'll still need to fight others for the resources and then send them up your production chain, so it's not like it would be super easy to just do it all yourself. Or, again, you'd need a huge capital that would provide you with the resources needed.

It doesn't seem like processing or crafting has any major risks involved. If my main character is the gatherer he'll have my best gear. My alts will be protected in the freehold where they can process and craft. Obviously wars and events can damage/destroy freeholds but that has nothing to do with the general safety of processors and crafters.

Ludullu

worddog wrote: »

It seems like no one in this thread understands how much free time some players have. It'll only take like 200hrs to level to max in ashes of creation.

I'd say 3 months after launch most super hard core players will have at least one max level alt character that is a master of whatever artisan class their other character needs. After another couple months they'll have their second alt and be totally self sufficient with three characters mastering each artisan class.

Obviously most players won't do this, but for the players that will, my original post was wondering; how important we want alts to be.

I'm literally gonna be one of those players. I have all the time in the day every day to play the game and planning on playing it all that time. I'm gonna be making alts and leveling them and all of that. And I want those professions to take as long as possible. And for resources to be as rare as possible, so that I couldn't just "be self-sufficient" just because I have more time than others.

Taking almost a year to have 3 chars that can craft a thing on one chain of the overall artisan system is as fair as it gets imo.

Ludullu

worddog wrote: »

It doesn't seem like processing or crafting has any major risks involved. If my main character is the gatherer he'll have my best gear. My alts will be protected in the freehold where they can process and craft. Obviously wars and events can damage/destroy freeholds but that has nothing to do with the general safety of processors and crafters.

Yes, and you need the gatherables to even start using your processers and crafters. Which was my point. Yes, your gatherer will be well-geared, but are you sure that you'll be able to fight against several people who work together while you yourself are solo?

Because I'm fairly sure that any high lvl/value gatherer will have protection with him, because that gatherer will be in a guild or just in a group of people who leveled different artisans and now support their gatherer so that solo players like you can't do shit to him.

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