Another area perma flagged for PVP?

Is this true? Nodes that have been destroyed... through siege or neglect... will be auto flagged PVP areas for some time?

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Depraved

yeah for a few days and you can find hidden treasures

Lash

Yes. They have talked about the concept of open world battlegrounds and node ruins after a lost siege will be one of them.

Hinotori

Abarat wrote: »

Is this true? Nodes that have been leveled... through siege or neglect... will be auto flagged PVP areas for some time?

If nodes atrophy or get destroyed through a siege or other event then yes. They'll become an FFA PVP zone (probably similar to the ocean where you'll get a popup window) for a period of time where successful siege members, people looking to save their materiel and the opportunistic vultures will be tousling for loot.

SongRune

Abarat wrote: »

Is this true? Nodes that have been destroyed... through siege or neglect... will be auto flagged PVP areas for some time?

Yes. Less than a week if one of the absolute highest tier, most powerful nodes on the server falls. Half that for a normal one. Of course, Steven mentioned opt-in in the same answer, so... It's slightly unclear, but you shouldn't assume it won't happen.

TheHiddenDaggerInn

Very small amount of time, and something that won't likely happen much at all.

Abarat

still. i dont believe this was outlined in the Kickstarter, are we not worried about deviations from the kickstarter?

SongRune

Neither was Open Seas PvP. People have gotten it out of their system, and this one's a much smaller instance due to being time limited, preventable, and relatively rare. There are plenty of people who are concerned about deviations from the previously stated intentions, and we saw a lot of evidence of this last month.

That said... they've said over and over "everything is subject to change", and there's no reason for the design not to evolve as long as it stays relatively consistent with the same overall vision. Even something as large is this is, on some level, 'details'. As for whether this particular change is good or not? A subject for debate. So far, most of the sentiment I've seen is that it's relatively minor, overall.

unknownsystemerror

Abarat wrote: »

still. i dont believe this was outlined in the Kickstarter, are we not worried about deviations from the kickstarter?

Open world pvp battlegrounds were always a feature, what form they would take was not known until now. So it not a deviation or scope creep.

WHIT3ROS3

SongRune wrote: »

Of course, Steven mentioned opt-in in the same answer, so... It's slightly unclear, but you shouldn't assume it won't happen.

Opt-in in the sense that you choose to enter an area of ruins. I thought that was pretty clear.

SongRune

WHIT3ROS3 wrote: »

SongRune wrote: »

Of course, Steven mentioned opt-in in the same answer, so... It's slightly unclear, but you shouldn't assume it won't happen.

Opt-in in the sense that you choose to enter an area of ruins. I thought that was pretty clear.

Is THAT what he meant? I'll have to rewatch it...

EDIT: Ah. So it is. He learned that he needs to say the words 'opt in zone' when describing corruption-free PvP regions. It was in fact clear. He was just also trying to trick a specific set of people, and I was confused in retrospect by it.

So it is in fact:
"Opt-in zone": Zone which you opt into by entering.
not:
"Opt-in zone": Zone where the PvP 'mode' is "opt-in".

Ultimately, given what node ruins are, it really should be the first. There's no actual reason to enter them other than to fight for the stuff therein. Anything else would just result in unnecessary technical or design complexity.

Dygz

Abarat wrote: »

Is this true? Nodes that have been destroyed... through siege or neglect... will be auto flagged PVP areas for some time?

Um. That is temporary; not permanent.

Dygz

SongRune wrote: »

WHIT3ROS3 wrote: »

SongRune wrote: »

Of course, Steven mentioned opt-in in the same answer, so... It's slightly unclear, but you shouldn't assume it won't happen.

Opt-in in the sense that you choose to enter an area of ruins. I thought that was pretty clear.

Is THAT what he meant? I'll have to rewatch it...

EDIT: Ah. So it is. He learned that he needs to say the words 'opt in zone' when describing corruption-free PvP regions. It was in fact clear. He was just also trying to trick a specific set of people, and I was confused in retrospect by it.

So it is in fact:
"Opt-in zone": Zone which you opt into by entering.
not:
"Opt-in zone": Zone where the PvP 'mode' is "opt-in".

Ultimately, given what node ruins are, it really should be the first. There's no actual reason to enter them other than to fight for the stuff therein. Anything else would just result in unnecessary technical or design complexity.

Yeah... auto-flag is not opt-in, but...

Dygz

SongRune wrote: »

Neither was Open Seas PvP. People have gotten it out of their system, and this one's a much smaller instance due to being time limited, preventable, and relatively rare. There are plenty of people who are concerned about deviations from the previously stated intentions, and we saw a lot of evidence of this last month.

That said... they've said over and over "everything is subject to change", and there's no reason for the design not to evolve as long as it stays relatively consistent with the same overall vision. Even something as large is this is, on some level, 'details'. As for whether this particular change is good or not? A subject for debate. So far, most of the sentiment I've seen is that it's relatively minor, overall.

Everything is subject to change is fine. And the more time they have to develop before release, the more time they have for changes. Especially while they do not have a Lead Game Designer.

But... I don't play PvP-centric MMORPGs, like EvE-Online.
So... changing Ashes to be a PvP-centric game means I won't be playing Ashes, either.
Which is fine. I don't have to play every MMORPG.

It just cracks me up to rewatch the Ashen Forge interview with Steven, where I try to get Steven to say that Ashes is PvP-centric. And that I don't play EvE Online because it's too PvP-centric for me so I'm asking him to name some games that he considers to be a "murder-box"
Then see Steven try to wiggle away from clearly stating his true vision.

These changes mean more fun for PvPers.
That's not a bad thing.

Asgerr

Abarat wrote: »

still. i dont believe this was outlined in the Kickstarter, are we not worried about deviations from the kickstarter?

No. PvP zones are all the world. Consequence free PvP already exist in the form of caravans. Having a dead node be a set of ruins and PvP area for about a couple of days? Not an issue.

We also don't know how long it takes for an atrophied Node to begin accruing XP to level up to a usable node again.

Dygz

Caravans are opt-in. You manually choose to participate.
The Open Seas are permanent auto-flag.
Node Ruins seem to be temporary auto-flag.

Strevi

Abarat wrote: »

still. i dont believe this was outlined in the Kickstarter, are we not worried about deviations from the kickstarter?

According to kickstarter, they should have delivered the game already.
Kickstarters should be worried that they might never get it or that they die of old age by the time is released. Apparently the new rule is to not give a deadline anymore using what excuse? That if they give one and exceed the deadline again, honor would be broken once more? And then once more?
Maybe honor is important. Or maybe is just an excuse.

Abarat

Dygz wrote: »

Caravans are opt-in. You manually choose to participate.
The Open Seas are permanent auto-flag.
Node Ruins seem to be temporary auto-flag.

I guess they are all opt in.
when you get to the edge of the open seas, you are notified with great big letters. You opt in by proceeding.
Same thing with node ruins i would assume.

Dygz

Sure.
Which is why I "opt-out" by just not playing games with that form of "opt-in".

DarkTides

Dygz wrote: »

Sure.
Which is why I "opt-out" by just not playing games with that form of "opt-in".

Come now Dygz, surely you can tough it out.... lol

Dont need the open seas and opt in pvp nodes to kill people.

SongRune

DarkTides wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

Sure.
Which is why I "opt-out" by just not playing games with that form of "opt-in".

Come now Dygz, surely you can tough it out.... lol

Dont need the open seas and opt in pvp nodes to kill people.

Yeah, see. This is exactly the sort of mindset that drives away a certain subset of player that might otherwise be able to ease into it. This whole "It's supposed to be painful and unfun, and you're supposed to just deal with that." People without experiences that show them the value in this sort of gameplay then go "But why?" and leave. The PvP you're talking about may not even need to be painful or un-fun, but when you have this kind of reaction, you make sure they'll never find that out. It's very unproductive.

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