Dungeon Griefing Idea after Asmongold reacts to Lucky Ghost

This was brought up recently about when dungeons get discovered and ganking inside while a group from the node is inside trying to clear. This was in a video by Lucky Ghost followed by a reaction from Asmongold.

My thoughts are why not have a dungeon guard system like the caravan where a guard unit can be placed to keep others out while your node members are inside. They can be paid for and activated whenever needed and upgraded same as the caravans.

This leaves the option to not use them if you still want pvp to be possible for maybe more rewards that dont go towards the guards payments.

EDIT:. A little ways down, in a reply to Natasha, I elaborate more on how this isn't a carebear mode and more an incentive for more pvp by giving the dungeons a guarding event that doesn't lead to simple ganking and corruption but actual battles over them so no one guild is ever able to hold them due to many not wanting to possibly get corruption to flag over the dungeons. Read that before jumping to conclusions like several did.

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Taleof2Cities

Why not use players as guards, @erros?

Most of the dungeons in Ashes are open world anyway. If the node doesn't have the manpower to set up guard sentries, they could hire another "mercenary guild" with personal node resources.

NPC guards would reduce the risk for the node members inside ... which is not in line with Steven's previous quotes on meaningful conflict.

George_Black

How many more posts of "I want to play however safe I want" will there be, because you worship youtubers?"
How about they make an mmo? An mmo where pvp is optional, pve is optional, losing is optional

Ludullu

George_Black wrote: »

losing is optional

There's gonna be NO LOSING in MY MMO!! Only winners here.

Hinotori

As @Taleof2Cities has said already why don't you engage with players around you and not rely on NPCS. Get with the whole MMO aspect of the MMORPG being created here and make some friends.

And having someone disrupt your attempt at a dungeon isn't griefing. That's a battle over a finite resource which the team that comes better prepared should win.

erros

Oh you guys don't understand... I personally would not be using any form of guards or hiring any players which was another part of my thoughts for guarding the dungeons as well. This was just another option that actually makes sense... what you also aren't understanding is that this would be a costly option most likely and its not like the guards would be unbeatable... just a roadblock to getting into the dungeon if the city is employing them to begin with... plus this could be a Risk vs Reward in itself as the safety of some guards would potentially reduce the rewards of the dungeon during their activation...

The fact you guys can't think further outside of.. LUL carebear mode is rather sad and I could care less what YouTubers want.. I just thought it was an interesting idea that tied into the same mechanics as the Caravans which I would assume you don't have an issue with those having guards?

BlackBrony

You want the game to give you solutions when the community is there. Pay players, pay guilds to protect.

Hinotori

erros wrote: »

Oh you guys don't understand... I personally would not be using any form of guards or hiring any players which was another part of my thoughts for guarding the dungeons as well. This was just another option that actually makes sense... what you also aren't understanding is that this would be a costly option most likely and its not like the guards would be unbeatable... just a roadblock to getting into the dungeon if the city is employing them to begin with... plus this could be a Risk vs Reward in itself as the safety of some guards would potentially reduce the rewards of the dungeon during their activation...

The fact you guys can't think further outside of.. LUL carebear mode is rather sad and I could care less what YouTubers want.. I just thought it was an interesting idea that tied into the same mechanics as the Caravans which I would assume you don't have an issue with those having guards?

so your entire post is just a troll for reactions, thought so.

ClintHardwood

When I play Albion Online, here's what my guild does when we get invaded in an open world dungeon: We kill the invaders or die trying. That's all there is to it.

I watched the video you've mentioned and it's clear neither the narrator or Asmongold have much experience in PvP MMOs. Asmongold plays WoW, FF14, and Lost Ark. What does he know about open world full loot PvP? I've never seen him stream Eve, Ultima shards, Archage or Albion. While I like Asmon, in this case, he's talking out of his ass.

Here's the truth: Not everyone you'll encounter is in a top-tier gigachad PvP guild trying to grief you. Most of the players you meet are terrible, not much better or worse than you, and you stand a fair chance of killing them or at least running away if you take basic precautions. Don't pull too many mobs, retreat into already cleared territory when you see red-named players, have invisibility gear and potions to deaggro, etc. These are simple concepts anyone can apply.

Personally, I consider myself a PvE player. I like to craft and gather, and I stay away from PvP. And despite that, I almost never die in Albion or Ultima while carrying anything of value. I don't remember the last time I lost a substantial amount of progress. I'm careful and I know the basics. I store my loot when I get something good. I don't go to highly contested areas with legendary gear. I take cheap armor to high risk areas. You can easily do the same.

Ironhope

The game seems to be great with the system it has so far.

If problems exist, I am sure Intrepid will notice them and fix them in Alpha 2 and Beta or early release.

The criticism of Lucky Ghost was invalid, as Steven showed.

And I strongly disagree with PvE servers as they would be an inferior version of the game but the whole game would be judged by it.

For an mmo-rpg to have quality it needs to be an actual adventure game.

If the world feels safe when you set out in it, it means it's sterile, it means there's no feeling of adventure because adventure = danger and people will notice this sterile feeling but won't know what to atribute it to, when in fact their own choice of PVE SERVER would be to blame.

No, I strongly believe AOC is good as it is as if problem exists with the corruption system, changes can always be made to buff it or extend it.

But I don't believe in PvE servers or invulnerability ot PvP.

Arya_Yeshe

Asmongold was very incoherent in this rant, he couldn't see the big picture and failed this time, even tough he is great when it comes to this kind of subject he is lost.

Here is the thing:
Carebears have to understand that PVP players can cause them problems but also can save them from problems.

Start inviting PVPers to the guild, do PVP roams, run intel alts, ambush and kill your adversaries.
Bring the killers to your guild, train PVP at least defensively.

The problems won't come through the ganking, the problems will come through the agressive use of the Corruption system, such system will become a tug of war.

Arya_Yeshe

BlackBrony wrote: »

You want the game to give you solutions when the community is there. Pay players, pay guilds to protect.

Yes!
In other words: be a better player

Don't except the company to do your job as a player.

Barab

ClintHardwood wrote: »

When I play Albion Online, here's what my guild does when we get invaded in an open world dungeon: We kill the invaders or die trying. That's all there is to it.

I watched the video you've mentioned and it's clear neither the narrator or Asmongold have much experience in PvP MMOs. Asmongold plays WoW, FF14, and Lost Ark. What does he know about open world full loot PvP? I've never seen him stream Eve, Ultima shards, Archage or Albion. While I like Asmon, in this case, he's talking out of his ass.

Here's the truth: Not everyone you'll encounter is in a top-tier gigachad PvP guild trying to grief you. Most of the players you meet are terrible, not much better or worse than you, and you stand a fair chance of killing them or at least running away if you take basic precautions. Don't pull too many mobs, retreat into already cleared territory when you see red-named players, have invisibility gear and potions to deaggro, etc. These are simple concepts anyone can apply.

Personally, I consider myself a PvE player. I like to craft and gather, and I stay away from PvP. And despite that, I almost never die in Albion or Ultima while carrying anything of value. I don't remember the last time I lost a substantial amount of progress. I'm careful and I know the basics. I store my loot when I get something good. I don't go to highly contested areas with legendary gear. I take cheap armor to high risk areas. You can easily do the same.

Not much to add other than say I love this post. Its refreshing and I agree with every word in it.

Arya_Yeshe

ClintHardwood wrote: »

When I play Albion Online, here's what my guild does when we get invaded in an open world dungeon: We kill the invaders or die trying. That's all there is to it.

There, this guy said it all.

ClintHardwood wrote: »

I watched the video you've mentioned and it's clear neither the narrator or Asmongold have much experience in PvP MMOs. Asmongold plays WoW, FF14, and Lost Ark. What does he know about open world full loot PvP? I've never seen him stream Eve, Ultima shards, Archage or Albion. While I like Asmon, in this case, he's talking out of his ass.

Yeah, Asmongold is just a relentless try-hard hoarding carebear.

He has no clue about the possibilities while working with other people in a free-for-all PVP where everybody is free to work together or against each other.

ClintHardwood wrote: »

Here's the truth: Not everyone you'll encounter is in a top-tier gigachad PvP guild trying to grief you.

There, this guy saying it all again!
No game is this perma griefing thing, unless you are playing a MMO as if it was a single player... sometimes working together with one or two players is more than enough and you don't even need a guild

ClintHardwood wrote: »

Personally, I consider myself a PvE player. I like to craft and gather, and I stay away from PvP. And despite that, I almost never die in Albion or Ultima while carrying anything of value. I don't remember the last time I lost a substantial amount of progress. I'm careful and I know the basics. I store my loot when I get something good. I don't go to highly contested areas with legendary gear. I take cheap armor to high risk areas. You can easily do the same.

EVE Online is the most punishing pvp game there is and the big alliances have their PVE guys building up the alliance's war industry... the pvp guys gather intel and do pvp roams to kill invaders.

In the long run everybody becomes pvp trained at least to handle themselves in a battle or in travel or doing their PVE farming.

StormCrow820

I barely put any thought into this, but being able to prevent other groups from joining a open world dungeon?.. that seems backwards to me. Making reservations seems counter- whatever to the game design. Can you grief people by paying to bar them out? How much do you have to spend? and are they NPCs? It sounds like you might just want a instanced dungeon, and that's fair, but gate keeping open world dungeons seems backwards to me, is that pay to win?

Mag7spy

I like how asmongold says someone could stop you from killing a mob from banishing, and someone is lie if you could pvp them that wouldn't be a issue lmfao.

Asmongold is 100% the future Vader for steven

Veeshan

It wouldnt be griefing tbh, the entire game is set up for competition down to the core level with nodes blocking other from leveling up. This means there incentive to to slow other people nodes from leveling up so you have time to level yours up, PvP players would be aiming to PK other players from there neighbouring nodes to slow there progress while there more pve orinated players would focus on activity to level their node up. If say 3 players can stop 5 players from doing activity that can level up nodes then your getting a net positive of 2 players on node XP gain to increase there chanes of hitting T5/6 nodes over the neighbouring nodes that would normally stop them.

GullibleSkeptic

As a player of rappelz a game where people could attack you in the dungeons this was not common. Most of the time people would roll up see the room is taken and ask how long you are gonna be there. If you said a long time they would go to a different room. I think people are highly overestimating how much dungeon groups are gonna wanna fight and waste time over the dungeon.

Scarbeus

Invite your guild PvP'ers along to the PvE dungeon raid. Why you might ask? Because it's open world and other people will be there for them to attack in return for a share of the dungeon rewards you'll get from them keeping your competition away from you while you clear the dungeon.

Balrog21

Clint pretty much sums it up here. Nothing more to add.

erros

Natasha wrote: »

erros wrote: »

Oh you guys don't understand... I personally would not be using any form of guards or hiring any players which was another part of my thoughts for guarding the dungeons as well. This was just another option that actually makes sense... what you also aren't understanding is that this would be a costly option most likely and its not like the guards would be unbeatable... just a roadblock to getting into the dungeon if the city is employing them to begin with... plus this could be a Risk vs Reward in itself as the safety of some guards would potentially reduce the rewards of the dungeon during their activation...

The fact you guys can't think further outside of.. LUL carebear mode is rather sad and I could care less what YouTubers want.. I just thought it was an interesting idea that tied into the same mechanics as the Caravans which I would assume you don't have an issue with those having guards?

so your entire post is just a troll for reactions, thought so.

No... What do you guys not understand about this... It is 100% not in favor of a carebear type deal..
I even stated using the caravan system as the model...

How does the caravan system work.. ok let's explain in detail since you guys apparently can't think outside the box.
1 Someone puts their fortune into a big fat piggy bank. Their node has invested in barracks for better guards so what happens, and this IS a functioning IN game system already told to us, they buy upgraded guards to help move that sweet fat piggy bank.
2 it rolls out of town and a radius around town protects it from spawn and even around each other node as a safe space. Now between those safe spaces you can opt to attack or defend it.
3 Break open the piggy bank you get nice loot. Defend it.. I hope we get some form of compensation because a pat on the back won't cut it. Again this IS a game system already.........

Now let's apply this to dungeons... Your city has upgraded barracks and you have several dungeons. Maybe your city wants to be able to protect it's resources but charge you for it... You hire a set amount of guards just like the caravan and it's all based on what your city has invested in but they are only going to guard the entrance for a set time. Now you can also have the same functions but NO npc guards and the entrance sets up an event area where people can opt to defend the entrances Both can apply.
(The only issue here is how to apply this with potentially different groups trying to go in. Perhaps if a group is already tagged as having killed bosses inside and didn't opt for guarding then the function is disabled until that group exits and then if it's activated entering parties have to accept less loot for that time period, overall this could even simply be a voted on thing within the citizens of the node itself but entering parties can choose to dismiss the guards and I say this for the following reason Risk vs Reward)

Either way using this reduces the risks obviously so what happens you reduce the rewards potential for the dungeon, or some of the spoils go to the guarding pool and once their time expires the loot they collected is Need/Greeded out or auto based on contribution. But the same rules apply here... Someone or a group can choose to opt for attacking the dungeon making them able to fight without worrying about corruption to try and take over the dungeon. If they beat the guards the loot collected up to that point is rolled on by the attacking players and then they can proceed inside also fighting the players inside that opted for guards.

These guards could also range from actually guarding to a simple Alert that someone or a group has entered.

This adds more potential to fight over dungeons without corruption getting in the way, potentially making it so 1 guild or group can't always keep the dungeon locked down.

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