I'm Convinced

On yesterday's livestream Steven made it 100% clear that PK on greens will be very rare, almost non-existent, because the planned corruption penalties will be a super effective deterrent.

For me, this ends the debate, for now, until A2 testing. Steven made it sound like griefing innocent, helpless little softies won't be a thing.

Honestly, while I was previously concerned that Ashes maybe needed more risk for people looking to kill gatherers for their lootz, I realize those concerns were misplaced.

If you're concerned about griefing and haven't watched the October 28 livestream, go watch it.

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Ludullu

I've outlaid somewhat of a counterpoint to this in a neighboring thread. And the discussion about land management abuse was going from "just PK anyone who's gathering on your land" to "bring low lvls to a node and overgather everything" (which is pretty much the bait for the first response).

And considering that those low lvls can repeatedly come to the node, while the PKers would have to repeatedly kill them - how exactly would Intrepid have to determine who's the griefer there. Especially if we assume that the response to those low lvls will be, yet another recent thread, low lvl PKers.

In other words, just as you said, until alpha2 there's no real guarantee that there's gonna be small-to-none amounts of PKing.

Electronn

@NiKr

Very interesting points. I haven't read those posts...will do so.

Dolyem

NiKr wrote: »

I've outlaid somewhat of a counterpoint to this in a neighboring thread. And the discussion about land management abuse was going from "just PK anyone who's gathering on your land" to "bring low lvls to a node and overgather everything" (which is pretty much the bait for the first response).

And considering that those low lvls can repeatedly come to the node, while the PKers would have to repeatedly kill them - how exactly would Intrepid have to determine who's the griefer there. Especially if we assume that the response to those low lvls will be, yet another recent thread, low lvl PKers.

In other words, just as you said, until alpha2 there's no real guarantee that there's gonna be small-to-none amounts of PKing.

Its like my concern with my question I asked is getting more and more relevant lmao

MMOAddict

the bounty hunter system and the caravan sysyem will make ganking gatherers something that almost never happens. people who would be intrested in ganking others to steal their loot will all just be looking for caravans and bounties

Veeshan

NiKr wrote: »

I've outlaid somewhat of a counterpoint to this in a neighboring thread. And the discussion about land management abuse was going from "just PK anyone who's gathering on your land" to "bring low lvls to a node and overgather everything" (which is pretty much the bait for the first response).

And considering that those low lvls can repeatedly come to the node, while the PKers would have to repeatedly kill them - how exactly would Intrepid have to determine who's the griefer there. Especially if we assume that the response to those low lvls will be, yet another recent thread, low lvl PKers.

In other words, just as you said, until alpha2 there's no real guarantee that there's gonna be small-to-none amounts of PKing.

mayors should get a closed boarder policy where anyone not resident of the node (or vassel node i guess aswell) will be flagged purple within the boarders of the node, this when there a notification for people who dont wanna pvp that there being marked as combatant due to x policy and those who live in the node can defend it from respource abuse from outsiders. there a penalty of having this policiy aswell since it limits trade coming to your town from the outside so you'll have to either fight/trade or gather these resources that are common in your area but i think it a good policy to have as an option for the mayor if they decide to do it, if residents dont like the policy it also give them the option to vote/kick out the mayor on election time and so for someone else that might get rid of it.

Dezemi

Does anyone sit on any information regarding whenever the corruption system will be bound to a CHARACTER or an ACCOUNT?

If it is a character thing, then dedicated people will probably have one or multiple characters designated for ganking behavior.

If it is an account thing, then the risk of people being ganked lowers significantly - BUT, just like NiKr said - we'll be in a risk of people using alternative means of griefing.

George_Black

Dezmerizing wrote: »

Does anyone sit on any information regarding whenever the corruption system will be bound to a CHARACTER or an ACCOUNT?

If it is a character thing, then dedicated people will probably have one or multiple characters designated for ganking behavior.

If it is an account thing, then the risk of people being ganked lowers significantly - BUT, just like NiKr said - we'll be in a risk of people using alternative means of griefing.

Dedicated griefing char?

With what gear? Wont you lose it after a bit? Gear wont be ez to acquire in AoC.
How will you deal dmg or survive a counter attack from a properly equiped target?

Dezemi

George_Black wrote: »

Dedicated griefing char?

With what gear? Wont you lose it after a bit? Gear wont be ez to acquire in AoC.
How will you deal dmg or survive a counter attack from a properly equiped target?

You will potentially be able to lose gear, should your corruption be high enough. Whenever that means "you die = you naked" or "you die, you lost your shoes" is unknown to me. Thing is - how much gear would one really need to gank life-skillers and lower levels? And if a stronger main character is able to dump some "decent enough" gear on their corruption-stacked alt, then losing a piece here and there won't be an issue.

I mean, for the people investing the most time into the game, having multiple decent-ish geared characters probably won't be very far off. No matter how difficult it is to gear, the people spending most time in the game will usually have more than one doable character.

And regarding the "survive a counter attack from a properly equipped target" - they usually don't regardless. Like many life skillers already pointed out, the people who ganks in this sort of way are usually not too difficult to put down if you're another PvP-oriented individual. Speaking from experience; PvP has been my passion in MMORPGs since 2009.

(I do not gank, but I love counter-attacking gankers - I will probably spend most of my time in the game bounty hunting or caravan defending)

Noaani

Dezmerizing wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

Dedicated griefing char?

With what gear? Wont you lose it after a bit? Gear wont be ez to acquire in AoC.
How will you deal dmg or survive a counter attack from a properly equiped target?

You will potentially be able to lose gear, should your corruption be high enough. Whenever that means "you die = you naked" or "you die, you lost your shoes" is unknown to me. Thing is - how much gear would one really need to gank life-skillers and lower levels? And if a stronger main character is able to dump some "decent enough" gear on their corruption-stacked alt, then losing a piece here and there won't be an issue.

I mean, for the people investing the most time into the game, having multiple decent-ish geared characters probably won't be very far off. No matter how difficult it is to gear, the people spending most time in the game will usually have more than one doable character.

And regarding the "survive a counter attack from a properly equipped target" - they usually don't regardless. Like many life skillers already pointed out, the people who ganks in this sort of way are usually not too difficult to put down if you're another PvP-oriented individual. Speaking from experience; PvP has been my passion in MMORPGs since 2009. (I do not gank, but I love counter-attacking gankers - I will probably spend most of my time in the game bounty hunting or caravan defending)

So, Ashes isnt going to have people just going around harvesting that aren't able to defend themselves.

The game is a PvP game, everyone knows this.

As such, your assumption that "life-skillers" would be an easy kill is just false.

As for lower levels, you will gain exponentially more corruption for doing this. It isnt actually worth it.

I dont see how a griefing character in Ashes would be viable.

You need to have better than average gear on this character, you'll be the one being briefed if not. You will need to continuously spend time working off corruption, even with better than average gear you aren't going to do well griefing others while corrupt.

I mean, it's perfectly doable. If you want to invest the time to just grief others you'll be able to, you just wont have much time for anything else.

Strevi

mcnasty wrote: »

For me, this ends the debate, for now, until A2 testing. Steven made it sound like griefing innocent, helpless little softies won't be a thing.

Until A2 testing when they get molested a little bit.
After that the game will be balanced and they'll come willingly because theyl'll love it

Uboon

Using an alt to successfully gank is viable, now that I think about it. Okay you would eventually drop all your gear, and your damage would be VERY low, but a naked noodle ganker can still gank, because the defender cannot attack back! At the very least they would be chased off or interrupted a lot, aka harassed.

At the very worst, hordes or naked noodle gankers will roam zones scaring harvesters off. Not a sight I'd like to see, even with loin clothes!

George_Black

Trenker wrote: »

Using an alt to successfully gank is viable, now that I think about it. Okay you would eventually drop all your gear, and your damage would be VERY low, but a naked noodle ganker can still gank, because the defender cannot attack back! At the very least they would be chased off or interrupted a lot, aka harassed.

At the very worst, hordes or naked noodle gankers will roam zones scaring harvesters off. Not a sight I'd like to see, even with loin clothes!

Right. Im convinced.

bloodprophet

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Player_corruption

More people need to read this and watch the videos in the links.
Pay close attention when they talk about stat dampening and not being able to trade gear when corrupted.
Also note when you turn red(corrupted) green players do not flag against you.

Songcaller

Gear will be 50% of a players power. I'm not certain a naked player would stand against a fully armed green player. Perhaps if the level gap is huge but perhaps not. I've played other MMOs where I could kill a naked max level player using green gear at mid level (in the game it was white, green, blue, purple, orange gear). Thus, I'm not convinced a naked toon would survive.

You could run into mobs and get the naked dude mobbed.

Vaknar

Very interesting conversations and points are being brought up here. Hoping that this thread continues a healthy conversation so we can see more thoughts and opinions on this topic!

Remember, if you're ever unsure about a topic, the wiki (and the included sources on the wiki) is a SUPER helpful tool! https://ashesofcreation.wiki/

Veeshan

im going to say how i see open world PvP happening in the game.

most Pvp players are in PvP orinated guilds which will set up in nodes general PvP guild ordinate to the same spot on the map because thats where the PvP is. So i feel large portions of the map will be fair void of PvP where most pvp players will migrate to probaly the coastline near the middle in some way or form since open sea pvp is free pvp area's and the sea in the middle will probaly be where most ocean trade routes happen so the western half of western continent will probaly have very little pvp and east side of east continent will probaly be the same. So i feel people are exagerating the amount of Random PKing happening in the world.

i just hope they dont go overboard on the corruption penalty or go to soft on it need to hit that fine line in the middle and i guess thats the debate is where that line should be.
Personaly i feel being able to kill 10 players a day without getting hit to hard with corruption penalty if a pretty good spot since population will probaly be 80% pve to 20% pvp players so this would be like 2 kills per player on greens which seems good. Of course kills of people who have no way of winning realisticly so kills of players say 10 levels lower (than you should be 5 times the penalty (So counts as 5 normal kills) of people of ur level because this is clearly greifing since they have 0 way to win the fight atleast 1v1 if there more of them they may fight back). Now killing people 20 levels lower should be higher penalty aswell and so on.
Now im sure PvE players will say 10 is to much but thats something to find out how it play out in game and tweak the numbers i persoanly would start at thr 5-10 marks and see how it plays out in alpha and tweak the values as needed depending on how the game plays out.

Uboon

Neurath wrote: »

Gear will be 50% of a players power. I'm not certain a naked player would stand against a fully armed green player. Perhaps if the level gap is huge but perhaps not. I've played other MMOs where I could kill a naked max level player using green gear at mid level (in the game it was white, green, blue, purple, orange gear). Thus, I'm not convinced a naked toon would survive.

You could run into mobs and get the naked dude mobbed.

You are correct, my naked noodle ganker would loose most of the fair fights, but he won't fight fair - he will simply use cover/stealth and strike when your hitpoints are low, or use some other advantage, or have more noodle wieldy friends with him. The naked noodle ganker only has to win one in every 4 fights to be a real harassment.

In any case the solution would be simple - high levels of corruption just have to slow the attackers movement speed, reduce HP significantly, and/or induce a 100% fumble, etc, just to make winning impossible. This would be running a character in to the ground, perhaps never to be able to recover! Hardcore perm-undeath. Ha, that's justice.

Uboon

bloodprophet wrote: »

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Player_corruption

Also note when you turn red(corrupted) green players do not flag against you.

Ah yes good point that takes the shine off my argument. But naked noodle ganking could still be a viable way to harass someone though. See my post above.

Uboon

One of the unfair ways for my theoretical naked noodle ganker to win fights and not increase their corruption is as follows:

The tactics being:

The Ganker's mate, being green or purple and corruption free, goads a green player into hitting him.
The green player turns purple.
The Ganker's mate may do a few more hits, then runs off or goes stealth or something.
The Naked Noodle Ganker appears for the kill. Against a purple player he gains no more corruption.

I am fairly new around here so please shoot my theories down, I want you to!

Issues in my evil theory concern how long does the Ganker's Mate stay purple after the goading and what happens when a purple attacks a green later on during following gank sessions?

novercalis

Trenker wrote: »

One of the unfair ways for my theoretical naked noodle ganker to win fights and not increase their corruption is as follows:

The tactics being:
The Ganker's mate, being green or purple and corruption free, goads a green player into hitting him.

The green player turns purple.

The Ganker's mate may do a few more hits, then runs off or goes stealth or something.

The Naked Noodle Ganker appears for the kill. Against a purple player he gains no more corruption.

I am fairly new around here so please shoot my theories down, I want you to!

Issues in my evil theory concern how long does the Ganker's Mate stay purple after the goading and what happens when a purple attacks a green later on during following gank sessions?

If Goading works - no need to hide, have the full suited PKer come out the moment the target turns purple.
Most people wont fall for that bait.

"The Ganker mate may do a few more hits" --- no need, once u turned him purple first, just full commit to the duel.

This scenerio doesnt bring anything in favor of the PK - this is a ok strat if a dummy falls for it.

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