I'm Convinced
Tacquito
Member
On yesterday's livestream Steven made it 100% clear that PK on greens will be very rare, almost non-existent, because the planned corruption penalties will be a super effective deterrent.
For me, this ends the debate, for now, until A2 testing. Steven made it sound like griefing innocent, helpless little softies won't be a thing.
Honestly, while I was previously concerned that Ashes maybe needed more risk for people looking to kill gatherers for their lootz, I realize those concerns were misplaced.
If you're concerned about griefing and haven't watched the October 28 livestream, go watch it.
For me, this ends the debate, for now, until A2 testing. Steven made it sound like griefing innocent, helpless little softies won't be a thing.
Honestly, while I was previously concerned that Ashes maybe needed more risk for people looking to kill gatherers for their lootz, I realize those concerns were misplaced.
If you're concerned about griefing and haven't watched the October 28 livestream, go watch it.
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And considering that those low lvls can repeatedly come to the node, while the PKers would have to repeatedly kill them - how exactly would Intrepid have to determine who's the griefer there. Especially if we assume that the response to those low lvls will be, yet another recent thread, low lvl PKers.
In other words, just as you said, until alpha2 there's no real guarantee that there's gonna be small-to-none amounts of PKing.
Very interesting points. I haven't read those posts...will do so.
Its like my concern with my question I asked is getting more and more relevant lmao
mayors should get a closed boarder policy where anyone not resident of the node (or vassel node i guess aswell) will be flagged purple within the boarders of the node, this when there a notification for people who dont wanna pvp that there being marked as combatant due to x policy and those who live in the node can defend it from respource abuse from outsiders. there a penalty of having this policiy aswell since it limits trade coming to your town from the outside so you'll have to either fight/trade or gather these resources that are common in your area but i think it a good policy to have as an option for the mayor if they decide to do it, if residents dont like the policy it also give them the option to vote/kick out the mayor on election time and so for someone else that might get rid of it.
If it is a character thing, then dedicated people will probably have one or multiple characters designated for ganking behavior.
If it is an account thing, then the risk of people being ganked lowers significantly - BUT, just like NiKr said - we'll be in a risk of people using alternative means of griefing.
Dedicated griefing char?
With what gear? Wont you lose it after a bit? Gear wont be ez to acquire in AoC.
How will you deal dmg or survive a counter attack from a properly equiped target?
You will potentially be able to lose gear, should your corruption be high enough. Whenever that means "you die = you naked" or "you die, you lost your shoes" is unknown to me. Thing is - how much gear would one really need to gank life-skillers and lower levels? And if a stronger main character is able to dump some "decent enough" gear on their corruption-stacked alt, then losing a piece here and there won't be an issue.
I mean, for the people investing the most time into the game, having multiple decent-ish geared characters probably won't be very far off. No matter how difficult it is to gear, the people spending most time in the game will usually have more than one doable character.
And regarding the "survive a counter attack from a properly equipped target" - they usually don't regardless. Like many life skillers already pointed out, the people who ganks in this sort of way are usually not too difficult to put down if you're another PvP-oriented individual. Speaking from experience; PvP has been my passion in MMORPGs since 2009.
So, Ashes isnt going to have people just going around harvesting that aren't able to defend themselves.
The game is a PvP game, everyone knows this.
As such, your assumption that "life-skillers" would be an easy kill is just false.
As for lower levels, you will gain exponentially more corruption for doing this. It isnt actually worth it.
I dont see how a griefing character in Ashes would be viable.
You need to have better than average gear on this character, you'll be the one being briefed if not. You will need to continuously spend time working off corruption, even with better than average gear you aren't going to do well griefing others while corrupt.
I mean, it's perfectly doable. If you want to invest the time to just grief others you'll be able to, you just wont have much time for anything else.
After that the game will be balanced and they'll come willingly because theyl'll love it
At the very worst, hordes or naked noodle gankers will roam zones scaring harvesters off. Not a sight I'd like to see, even with loin clothes!
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Right. Im convinced.
More people need to read this and watch the videos in the links.
Pay close attention when they talk about stat dampening and not being able to trade gear when corrupted.
Also note when you turn red(corrupted) green players do not flag against you.
You could run into mobs and get the naked dude mobbed.
Remember, if you're ever unsure about a topic, the wiki (and the included sources on the wiki) is a SUPER helpful tool! https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
most Pvp players are in PvP orinated guilds which will set up in nodes general PvP guild ordinate to the same spot on the map because thats where the PvP is. So i feel large portions of the map will be fair void of PvP where most pvp players will migrate to probaly the coastline near the middle in some way or form since open sea pvp is free pvp area's and the sea in the middle will probaly be where most ocean trade routes happen so the western half of western continent will probaly have very little pvp and east side of east continent will probaly be the same. So i feel people are exagerating the amount of Random PKing happening in the world.
i just hope they dont go overboard on the corruption penalty or go to soft on it need to hit that fine line in the middle and i guess thats the debate is where that line should be.
Personaly i feel being able to kill 10 players a day without getting hit to hard with corruption penalty if a pretty good spot since population will probaly be 80% pve to 20% pvp players so this would be like 2 kills per player on greens which seems good. Of course kills of people who have no way of winning realisticly so kills of players say 10 levels lower (than you should be 5 times the penalty (So counts as 5 normal kills) of people of ur level because this is clearly greifing since they have 0 way to win the fight atleast 1v1 if there more of them they may fight back). Now killing people 20 levels lower should be higher penalty aswell and so on.
Now im sure PvE players will say 10 is to much but thats something to find out how it play out in game and tweak the numbers i persoanly would start at thr 5-10 marks and see how it plays out in alpha and tweak the values as needed depending on how the game plays out.
You are correct, my naked noodle ganker would loose most of the fair fights, but he won't fight fair - he will simply use cover/stealth and strike when your hitpoints are low, or use some other advantage, or have more noodle wieldy friends with him. The naked noodle ganker only has to win one in every 4 fights to be a real harassment.
In any case the solution would be simple - high levels of corruption just have to slow the attackers movement speed, reduce HP significantly, and/or induce a 100% fumble, etc, just to make winning impossible. This would be running a character in to the ground, perhaps never to be able to recover! Hardcore perm-undeath. Ha, that's justice.
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Ah yes good point that takes the shine off my argument. But naked noodle ganking could still be a viable way to harass someone though. See my post above.
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The tactics being:
I am fairly new around here so please shoot my theories down, I want you to!
Issues in my evil theory concern how long does the Ganker's Mate stay purple after the goading and what happens when a purple attacks a green later on during following gank sessions?
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If Goading works - no need to hide, have the full suited PKer come out the moment the target turns purple.
Most people wont fall for that bait.
"The Ganker mate may do a few more hits" --- no need, once u turned him purple first, just full commit to the duel.
This scenerio doesnt bring anything in favor of the PK - this is a ok strat if a dummy falls for it.
Corruption is for when they're not fighting back. In this scenario, they're already fighting. This scenario has nothing to do with Corruption, as it's all consensual PvP.
I'm very glad that they didn't outright ban PK'ing but instead built gameplay systems around it. Yes, getting killed by a high level can be annoying, but on the other hand this system can create a very nice cooperative experience.
Whether that includes hunting a murderer alongside other bounty hunters or just stepping in to help defend someone else (and making a friend along the way), limited PK'ing creates unlimited emergent and exciting gameplay situations.
Greens attacking reds do not turn purple.
Reds are treated as mobs by the system. So your other buddy attacking a green attacking your red is still attacking a green.
I do not agree with either point...
At the start of the fight the bait looks like simple green on green, which would become purple on purple, which will give no penalties. Most people would be happy to fight this way because it is consensual PvP. Therefore the baiting will often work. In accordance with my original plan, the antagonist then runs off and the real harassment begins when the red PKer comes out to play. The only defence is to never fight back, even if the attacker you see at the start is green or purple. But then there would be no consensual PvP going on for fear of this trap. Something players would have to learn the hard way.
The fight goes in the favour of the red PKer because he does not gain corruption when killing a purple.
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Optimal solution: Never 1v1 anyone in the open world.
Why are you involving two players?
Your friend goads a player in to attacking them - they can now just kill that player without gaining corruption.
Further, while the red you have hiding may not gain corruption from killing this goaded player, they will still have PvP penalties from corruption, and so will already be less effective on combat. Further, by just being red, you invite bounty hunters to come along and attack - hide all you like, they will find you.
Seems like a good plan for a different game, tbh.
Other games just let you manually toggle PvP on or off, but with AoC you cannot avoid being attacked. Spicey!
Unfortunately, the complex diagrams, the forced attack key binding, the opt-in checkbox so hits register, all contrive to make this "simple spicey" difference bloomin' complicated! And all so you can whack a green when the need arises.
But now that I have my head around it all, I like it. I'm sure your average player will figure it all out, eventually.
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Good. Moving on.
If I am a solo purple and a bunch of purples come my way to attack me, can I instantly turn green and flip the finger to them and yell:
CONTENT DENIED