Concerns with in game economy

I prefer full item destruction on failed OE, but people were so damn butthurt about this mechanic that I doubt Intrepid sticks with it. Durability loss would be fine as a replacement I guess.

JamesSunderland

NiKr wrote: »

I prefer full item destruction on failed OE, but people were so damn butthurt about this mechanic that I doubt Intrepid sticks with it. Durability loss would be fine as a replacement I guess.

the sad part is that the bias most people had against over enchanting in the over enchanting thread were over enchanting from games with bad over enchanting system and not Lineage 2 Over enchanting.

Bdo has burnt many people out since l2.

Neurath wrote: »

Bdo has burnt many people out since l2.

It is unlikely that BDO is the culprit in the case James is talking about.

BDO enchanting is always safer/easier than L2. I've had to research this extensively while 'arguing' with James and NiKr.

I don't doubt that some games out there have made the people James is talking about have a stronger dislike for OE, but BDO is not it (in the sense that if people don't like BDO's system, they are not going to like L2's better).

It matters not how bad l2 system is. There is strong dislike to destruction due to BDO. There was no destruction in bdo, just deleveling. Thus, there is no desire to replace one crap Eastern system with another.

Neurath wrote: »

It matters not how bad l2 system is. There is strong dislike to destruction due to BDO. There was no destruction in bdo, just deleveling. Thus, there is no desire to replace one crap Eastern system with another.

Fair enough.

Either James is right and there is some game out there that has a worse system than L2 and that causes everyone to have that reaction, or James is wrong and just 'believes that more people would be okay with the L2 system'.

I guess we'll know in 5-6 months if TL launches with OE on gear.

Well, there was destruction for jewelry in bdo. However, I was under the impression ashes had item destruction on oe. Are you saying that the oe thread changed that facet?

Neurath wrote: »

Well, there was destruction for jewelry in bdo. However, I was under the impression ashes had item destruction on oe. Are you saying that the oe thread changed that facet?

It's quite vague. It says that it has "destruction" of gear, but then the quote for it implies that the item just kinda goes to 0 durability or smth like that, so you keep the item instead of it completely disappearing.

Yeah. To be honest I rarely see the outcomes of the main threads. We collate a ton of answers and then it seems to go into a black hole.

I'm pretty sure you can repair an item at 0 durability so you would be correct to state item destruction isn't an actuality but I think the stance hasn't changed since the oe thread yet.

Neurath wrote: »

I'm pretty sure you can repair an item at 0 durability so you would be correct to state item destruction isn't an actuality but I think the stance hasn't changed since the oe thread yet.

No, that's the point. The initial stance is what I described. We're not 100% sure that items completely disappear if you fail an OE.

Neurath wrote: »

Well, there was destruction for jewelry in bdo. However, I was under the impression ashes had item destruction on oe. Are you saying that the oe thread changed that facet?

I think it was never 'actual item destruction', but honestly I tend not to think about it or remember the specifics of that one since it is subject to change in specific ways AND the initial concept is a little unclear (something about disabling it, maybe you could still repair it, etc). TL will release sooner, so we'll know then.

BDO does have Destruction for Jewelry, yes, but the Jewelry odds are apparently slightly better than the L2 ones (this is hard to verify because of the massive number of changes and private servers) and you can prevent it (I assume you can do this in L2 also but can't be sure of that either).

Note that I don't agree with James' opinion here, and I'd go parse the thread in question to check, but it's subjective enough that I really doubt anyone would care. People should believe whatever they like about subjective things of this nature (whether or not other people would like something), I feel.

The only 'fact' I can provide (and even that is based only on what I can find) is that BDO isn't the game that would make people hate OE, because BDO's OE is nicer than L2's.

My stance was formed from BDO at the time. I believe I added an entry into the oe thread but I can't be sure.

I think item destruction from oe will not be a thing in Ashes because 1. A crafted item should be more resilient to enchants and 2. The unique legendary drops would be decimated and eventually would cease to exist per server.

After all, many of us can't resist the enchantments.

Azherae wrote: »

BDO does have Destruction for Jewelry, yes, but the Jewelry odds are apparently slightly better than the L2 ones (this is hard to verify because of the massive number of changes and private servers) and you can prevent it (I assume you can do this in L2 also but can't be sure of that either).

Iirc weapons was 66% and armor/jewelry was 55%? It's been years since I've gone into those kinds of details about L2 and I've been actively trying to remove my L2 details memories from my brain all these past years.

And yeah, you had special scrolls that would keep the item but remove the enchantment lvl. And then later on, in order to boost the fucking p2w even fucking more, NFucksoft introduced items that would keep the enchant lvls on fails. And they added +% items and even fucking +1-3 random scrolls, so you could get a +3 enchant instead of a +1 on the same chance (which iirc could be either protected or increased).

But that later shit is usually disregarded by the main L2 crowd, cause it came in the later later updates.

Neurath wrote: »

The unique legendary drops would be decimated and eventually would cease to exist per server.

After all, many of us can't resist the enchantments.

L2 had Epic Jewelry that dropped in single instances (with not even a 100% from certain bosses) from bosses that ranged from 36h respawns to 11-day ones. People usually didn't OE those, even though it made them weaker against the stronger mages on the server. You'd only start OEing them when your guild was the only one farming the boss and your main stack of strongest players already had a piece.

Yeah there are many nuances to the situation. For example, I only enhance my gear when I have more than one high end piece. Its more difficult when it is unique of course. You can easily swap out a lost piece if you have more than one.

I don't detract from the adrenaline and dopamine hit of a successful upgrade when destruction is a potential. I'm just not sure where the devs stand on the matter after the oe thread.

NiKr wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

BDO does have Destruction for Jewelry, yes, but the Jewelry odds are apparently slightly better than the L2 ones (this is hard to verify because of the massive number of changes and private servers) and you can prevent it (I assume you can do this in L2 also but can't be sure of that either).

Iirc weapons was 66% and armor/jewelry was 55%? It's been years since I've gone into those kinds of details about L2 and I've been actively trying to remove my L2 details memories from my brain all these past years.

And yeah, you had special scrolls that would keep the item but remove the enchantment lvl. And then later on, in order to boost the fucking p2w even fucking more, NFucksoft introduced items that would keep the enchant lvls on fails. And they added +% items and even fucking +1-3 random scrolls, so you could get a +3 enchant instead of a +1 on the same chance (which iirc could be either protected or increased).

But that later shit is usually disregarded by the main L2 crowd, cause it came in the later later updates.

Neurath wrote: »

The unique legendary drops would be decimated and eventually would cease to exist per server.

After all, many of us can't resist the enchantments.

L2 had Epic Jewelry that dropped in single instances (with not even a 100% from certain bosses) from bosses that ranged from 36h respawns to 11-day ones. People usually didn't OE those, even though it made them weaker against the stronger mages on the server. You'd only start OEing them when your guild was the only one farming the boss and your main stack of strongest players already had a piece.

The chances lower as you get higher, as BDO's do, it's just presented differently because in L2 you lose the item and in BDO you don't. Statistically, L2 is more frustrating (raw numbers, not opinion) based on everything I can find.

You can look into it a ton, or trust my information, either way:

Neurath wrote: »

It matters not how bad l2 system is. There is strong dislike to destruction due to BDO. There was no destruction in bdo, just deleveling. Thus, there is no desire to replace one crap Eastern system with another.

Is the response. The only reason this comes up is because James said that people's opinions would be different if they played L2 instead of 'whatever game they played'.

That random game just ain't BDO. BDO players would not look at L2's system and go 'oh that looks much better'. My personal reaction was 'wait it's WORSE? They can't be serious... they're serious lol'.