Sieges

To help include all levels of players and activity types (Super casuals) the Mayor should be able to order rental armor built for sieges. Mid tier, mid quality, perfectly average, something like steel plate, give a boost to low level players, artisans and the super casuals. The armor could be rental armor made by npc smiths using node resources, IE it can be picked up on the day the declaration is made and must be returned after the defense.

Also gives another resource for collection in the days before a siege to help prepare, or you could just make the armor sets automatically appear as if they were part of the guardhouse armory reserves.

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Ludullu

Make this a node project that makes player crafter do this and I'd love it

It would give the whole crafting chain something massive to do, would consume quite a bit of resources (also provided by the players) and would help out those casuals (who'd probably use those node quests to provide some mats in the first place).

This pretty much sounds like Foxhole's production cycle, except tied to a single event rather than a permanent one and on rental basis rather than "you have it as long as you don't die".

Voxtrium

Ya took out the don't die thing because I realized it would cheapen the value of the armor to the extent that buying it on the market would be cake and therefore make the system pointless.

Agreed, the more things that incentivize caravans teamplay and a risk/reward the better, and it helps everyone participate.

tautau

Nice idea! Would some weapons also be potentially included?

Voxtrium

tautau wrote: »

Nice idea! Would some weapons also be potentially included?

I would assume it would be a full combat kit with heavy, medium and light options available and a weapon of choice.

Depraved

Voxtrium wrote: »

To help include all levels of players and activity types (Super casuals) the Mayor should be able to order rental armor built for sieges. Mid tier, mid quality, perfectly average, something like steel plate, give a boost to low level players, artisans and the super casuals. The armor could be rental armor made by npc smiths using node resources, IE it can be picked up on the day the declaration is made and must be returned after the defense.

Also gives another resource for collection in the days before a siege to help prepare, or you could just make the armor sets automatically appear as if they were part of the guardhouse armory reserves.

I don't want my tax money to go towards boomerdad69 who only plays 2 hours a day, when I can just have sweatygamer420 on my team taking care of the enemies for free.

Ludullu

Depraved wrote: »

I don't want my tax money to go towards boomerdad69 who only plays 2 hours a day, when I can just have sweatygamer420 on my team taking care of the enemies for free.

Gizban

Depraved wrote: »

Voxtrium wrote: »

To help include all levels of players and activity types (Super casuals) the Mayor should be able to order rental armor built for sieges. Mid tier, mid quality, perfectly average, something like steel plate, give a boost to low level players, artisans and the super casuals. The armor could be rental armor made by npc smiths using node resources, IE it can be picked up on the day the declaration is made and must be returned after the defense.

Also gives another resource for collection in the days before a siege to help prepare, or you could just make the armor sets automatically appear as if they were part of the guardhouse armory reserves.

I don't want my tax money to go towards boomerdad69 who only plays 2 hours a day, when I can just have sweatygamer420 on my team taking care of the enemies for free.

boomerdad69 will play the game for 10 years, sweatygamer420 is going to get kicked out of his mom's basement after he jumps on the next FotM.

Voxtrium

@Depraved The argument for this is extremely simple but convoluted. More players is good for a defense. Even a level 5 can use abilities and auto attack and requires dps to be put down. Most people will be able to reach level 25 relatively easily etc. There are only downsides to only having sweats in a scenario where the number of participants is unlimited AND they are defending.

Depraved

pyreal wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

Voxtrium wrote: »

To help include all levels of players and activity types (Super casuals) the Mayor should be able to order rental armor built for sieges. Mid tier, mid quality, perfectly average, something like steel plate, give a boost to low level players, artisans and the super casuals. The armor could be rental armor made by npc smiths using node resources, IE it can be picked up on the day the declaration is made and must be returned after the defense.

Also gives another resource for collection in the days before a siege to help prepare, or you could just make the armor sets automatically appear as if they were part of the guardhouse armory reserves.

I don't want my tax money to go towards boomerdad69 who only plays 2 hours a day, when I can just have sweatygamer420 on my team taking care of the enemies for free.

boomerdad69 will play the game for 10 years, sweatygamer420 is going to get kicked out of his mom's basement after he jumps on the next FotM.

don't wanna pay taxes for 10 years to boomerdad69, when sweatygamer421 can join the game after sweatygamer420 gets kicked out of his moms basement

Voxtrium wrote: »

@Depraved The argument for this is extremely simple but convoluted. More players is good for a defense. Even a level 5 can use abilities and auto attack and requires dps to be put down. Most people will be able to reach level 25 relatively easily etc. There are only downsides to only having sweats in a scenario where the number of participants is unlimited AND they are defending.

yeah leveling will be hard, but this mechanic is providing an incentive for people to stay low level. why level up and farm when you can use someone else's money to be equalized in a siege?

node and castle defense, as well as an attack, succeeds or fails depending on the players. if you have people who play a lot, max level, decent gear, good, coordinate, etc, they should succeed and beat a node with only level 5-10 who play 30 mins a day. i don't see why this doesn't make any sense?

grab 250 max level vs 250 level 10. the level 10 shouldn't win.

Voxtrium

Depraved wrote: »

yeah leveling will be hard, but this mechanic is providing an incentive for people to stay low level. why level up and farm when you can use someone else's money to be equalized in a siege?

node and castle defense, as well as an attack, succeeds or fails depending on the players. if you have people who play a lot, max level, decent gear, good, coordinate, etc, they should succeed and beat a node with only level 5-10 who play 30 mins a day. i don't see why this doesn't make any sense?

grab 250 max level vs 250 level 10. the level 10 shouldn't win.

It is literally a maximum of 7 day rental of a mediocre armor and weapony? How is that incentive to stay low level? In castle sieges sure you want to recruit the best of the best. In node sieges there is currently no player limit. IE your entire citizenry can show up. players who just started the game, players who play an hour a week etc. Those players. they make up nearly the entire playerbase.

Depraved

Voxtrium wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

yeah leveling will be hard, but this mechanic is providing an incentive for people to stay low level. why level up and farm when you can use someone else's money to be equalized in a siege?

node and castle defense, as well as an attack, succeeds or fails depending on the players. if you have people who play a lot, max level, decent gear, good, coordinate, etc, they should succeed and beat a node with only level 5-10 who play 30 mins a day. i don't see why this doesn't make any sense?

grab 250 max level vs 250 level 10. the level 10 shouldn't win.

It is literally a maximum of 7 day rental of a mediocre armor and weapony? How is that incentive to stay low level? In castle sieges sure you want to recruit the best of the best. In node sieges there is currently no player limit. IE your entire citizenry can show up. players who just started the game, players who play an hour a week etc. Those players. they make up nearly the entire playerbase.

ok, they can rent the gear, but they can do it with their own money (:

also, I thought you meant top or near top gear..whats the point of renting mediocre gear then?

Voxtrium

Depraved wrote: »

ok, they can rent the gear, but they can do it with their own money (:

also, I thought you meant top or near top gear..whats the point of renting mediocre gear then?

In my post I clearly state that it is mediocre gear.
The entire point is that it is a node project as part of the preparation before a siege to provide players who are brand new, newish, artisans and pure casuals a way to have mid tier armor and be more relevant within the siege, while also functioning as an additional grouping incentive and resource sink.

Terrifying_Truth

@Voxtrium in certain PvP games, the players from a guild/corporation have to follow a certain doctrine for a fight or when in a party

But the doctrine is completely player run, if the mayor is smart he should talk to his citizens and introduce the concept of doctrine so the bulk of the force have some synergy. This is important for massive and long fights.

This rental armor idea is fun!

Too bad Intrepid has no addons, no nothing, no community participation in the development, otherwise the players themselves could create systems like this and offer to Intrepid, then a digital contract would be signed and Intrepid could pay for the system/addons and incorporate them as official content.

Arya_Yeshe

I completely missed this thread!

This sounds super cool, having the node armory would be the bomb! A node armory just makes sense!!
It is pretty much like in real life, when the department of defence buys a stockpile of weapons for the state.

Arya_Yeshe

Terrifying_Truth wrote: »

@Voxtrium in certain PvP games, the players from a guild/corporation have to follow a certain doctrine for a fight or when in a party

But the doctrine is completely player run, if the mayor is smart he should talk to his citizens and introduce the concept of doctrine so the bulk of the force have some synergy. This is important for massive and long fights.

This rental armor idea is fun!

Too bad Intrepid has no addons, no nothing, no community participation in the development, otherwise the players themselves could create systems like this and offer to Intrepid, then a digital contract would be signed and Intrepid could pay for the system/addons and incorporate them as official content.

I can confirm that!

In EVE, each group of players will have certain doctrines: armor or shield, artileries or lasers or blasters or missiles or rockets, small or medium or large... etc

Usually the player who will be fleet commander of the day will call for a certain doctrine and people have to bring their own ships following the doctrine. If you die, then the fleet commander will check your loss and reimburse you if you are flying within the doctrine.

When a group is rich and large enough, somtimes the fleet commander will simply handle the ships to everybody, then when the fight is over people loot everything and give back the ships/loot back to the fleet commander.

Doctrines are important even for small groups, not just for big fights!

Dygz

Super-casuals will not be playing Ashes.

Arya_Yeshe

Dygz wrote: »

Super-casuals will not be playing Ashes.

I am getting older, maybe I will become a super casual before AoC is launched

Voxtrium

Dygz wrote: »

Super-casuals will not be playing Ashes.

hopefully that is because of the sub cost and not the gameplay design loop. Casuals will make or break this game long term.

Noaani

Voxtrium wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

Super-casuals will not be playing Ashes.

hopefully that is because of the sub cost and not the gameplay design loop. Casuals will make or break this game long term.

I mean, super casual gamers play games that cost more than Ashes will cost.

to most casual gamers, time is far more important than money.

Imagine you have two hours to play a game. Are you likely to play a game that will see what ever progress you make in that two hours be safe, or a game where you may spend that two hours progressing and then have it taken from you?

I mean, if I know you only have two hours to play between 7 and 9pm, you had better believe I'll be attacking you at 8:55 if I come across you - because I know you won't be able to retaliate.

Essentially, Ashes will mostly appeal to people that don't have a fixed amount of time they can play. It will appeal to people that are in a position to be able to stay online for an extra hour or two when something unexpected happens. This is about as casual unfriendly as a game can be.

Noaani

Voxtrium wrote: »

To help include all levels of players and activity types (Super casuals) the Mayor should be able to order rental armor built for sieges. Mid tier, mid quality, perfectly average, something like steel plate, give a boost to low level players, artisans and the super casuals. The armor could be rental armor made by npc smiths using node resources, IE it can be picked up on the day the declaration is made and must be returned after the defense.

Also gives another resource for collection in the days before a siege to help prepare, or you could just make the armor sets automatically appear as if they were part of the guardhouse armory reserves.

As a general idea, I do kind of like this.

I'm not sure I would do it quite how you are describing though.

What I'd rather see is a node having a specific storage area that kind of functions like a marketplace, but is only made available leading up to a siege. Items in this chest are put up for rent for the duration of the siege. An item placed in to this chest needs to have a rental price added to it, and this rental fee is left in the storage area, only available to the person that deposited the item that was rented.

All items and rental fees placed in this storage are made available to the person that placed in the storage area after the siege, including items that were rented - in the event that the defenders win. If the defenders lose, all items left in the chest (ie, not rented), and all rental fees are available to be looted, and all items that were rented and in use for the siege are destroyed.

From there, give nodes an option to subsidize some gear, or potentially even pay the full rental price of some gear (checks need to be in place to prevent abuse of this system).

With this, you can essentially have a privately funded system, publicly funded system, or a mix of both. It can be used to gear masses of players with basic equipment for a siege, or to give some well funded but poorly geared players access to better gear for the duration of a siege.

There is no reason at all why this couldn't be available to attackers as well as defenders, and I could see it being viable (to a lesser degree) in guild and node wars.

It also adds a new dimension to sieges. It gives people in a node a means to make use of some higher quality gear they may have lying around, or they could craft some gear specifically for this. Players could well make an in game living going around sieges and picking which side they want to rent gear to.

Regardless, the notion of setting up a system where gear can be leased for the duration of a siege is great.

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