Greens unable to be CCd

id like to see what everyone's opinions are on this topic, as this is a forum for feedback etc here is mine,

i understand there needs to be measurements in place to prevent constant ganking, however the corruption system is already extremely heavy as it is, i think making it so greens cant be CCd is not a good idea at all, preventing you from using your tool kit and abilities makes no sense at all and even further how would this tie into any lore whatso ever, it is an open world sandbox style game so things like this should not be prevented, obviously i may be biased as i am planning on doing alot of pvp but this is just my opinion and i would like to hear yours!

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Kilion

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

It's not my opinion that is bad, it is true that is bad because many tiny rules have to be created

I've seen you rant about "carebears" in dozens of posts already and a lot of it was far removed from anything that would qualify as constructive criticism. You won't get me convinced that suddenly you just stating facts. You promote your opinion and it's fine to do so, but trying to sell that as objective... nah. Too late for that.

Arya_Yeshe

Kilion wrote: »

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

It's not my opinion that is bad, it is true that is bad because many tiny rules have to be created

I've seen you rant about "carebears" in dozens of posts already and a lot of it was far removed from anything that would qualify as constructive criticism. You won't get me convinced that suddenly you just stating facts. You promote your opinion and it's fine to do so, but trying to sell that as objective... nah. Too late for that.

Raising awareness about the carebear manace is the number one duty of all gamers, everybody who denies this is a backstabber of the gamming community. It is because of them that games became garbage over the years.

I can't give two fucks about what you think is constructive or not, because you clearly can't see the problem.

Carebears want to do their thing and not be interrupted, so Steven came up with this Corruption system that is clearly not enough. Because this system is not even close to being enough then many tiny rules have to be created along th years.

Kilion

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

the carebear manace, is the number one duty of all gamers, everybody who denies this is a backstabber of the gamming community. It is because of them that games became garbage over the years.

Crusade music intensifies

More Deus Vult please

Arya_Yeshe

Kilion wrote: »

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

the carebear manace, is the number one duty of all gamers, everybody who denies this is a backstabber of the gamming community. It is because of them that games became garbage over the years.

Crusade music intensifies

More Deus Vult please

My whole point is this: because the Corruption system is not even close to suffice, then many tiny rules all around the game will have to be made... the game will have tens of band-aids all around everywhere

See?
The system is bad

Arya_Yeshe

There's the Scribing profession:
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Scribing

Why can't people create a "teleport to nearest town scroll" and use it once a day?

I get it that Steven doesn't like teleporting around, I don't like abusing teleports either, but not even once a day?
C'mon!

Or teleport back to town once every life... if you die 10 times a day, then you can teleport once in every of those lifes

Kilion

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

[...] because the Corruption system is not even close to suffice, then many tiny rules all around the game will have to be made... the game will have tens of band-aids all around everywhere

The core system suffices very much for the goal and no, there is no innate need for more additional rules. Kill a green, gain corruption, death penalty and fight penalty applies. Full stop.
Anything beyond that is purely optional, which is why I made my point of saying it shouldn't universally apply even if they decided to put it in despite being unnecessary.

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

See?
The system is bad

Nope. The optional expansion to the core function are simply unnecessary. That provides no information value regarding the quality of the core system.

Arya_Yeshe

Kilion wrote: »

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

[...] because the Corruption system is not even close to suffice, then many tiny rules all around the game will have to be made... the game will have tens of band-aids all around everywhere

The core system suffices very much for the goal and no, there is no innate need for more additional rules. Kill a green, gain corruption, death penalty and fight penalty applies. Full stop.
Anything beyond that is purely optional, which is why I made my point of saying it shouldn't universally apply even if they decided to put it in despite being unnecessary.

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

See?
The system is bad

Nope. The optional expansion to the core function are simply unnecessary. That provides no information value regarding the quality of the core system.

Contradiction detected!!!!
This very thread about greens not being able to be CCed is a band-aid

Stop it, get some help.

Terrifying_Truth

Well, here's another tiny rule to be learned, isn't it? Someday I will have to make a diagram having all the rules, extra rules, conditions and scenarios, so I can fully exploit it for my own benefit.

Keep sending more and more rules, I like chaos and I like even better when others don't know every little detail while I do know them all.

Kilion

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

This very thread about greens not being able to be CCed is a band-aid
Stop it, get some help.

And where did I disagree with that?

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

Contradiction *imagined!!!!

There, I fixed that for you.

Gospell1

I do not understand why you are trying in every possible way to limit the pk players? They are the same players, they are looking for fun, for them the penalty system works anyway. If you don't want to get stunned or slowed, buy/make protection from going through negative effects. My experience of playing mmo started with l2 in 2006, before that I was not interested in this genre. I still remember all those emotions that I got when we tried to get out of the city and catch the player's pk, I remember how he killed me and I got angry, I said, wait, I'll grow up and kick your ass, I remember how we teleported to others high-level towns and asked us to help catch the pk.I remember how we caught him and everyone had fun. And then when they caught up, they just laughed and joked about him. I remember when we created our clan and tried to raise it to the level, we ran around the area and looked for some things, and then we noticed a high level of pk in the distance and we ran away from him with the whole clan, shouting curses at him, and he ran after us and also cursed xD. I remember being a pk myself, how a mob of noobs hunted me. I remember we fought against the pc clan and it was a damn good battle. And there were a lot of great memories related to the pk system that I can tell. After all, it is precisely such moments that you will remember, and not how you killed 1000 mobs in safety. What are you worried about? For the numbers of lost experience or for the virtual things that you drop? Vivid memories are much more important.

Arya_Yeshe

Gospell wrote: »

I do not understand why you are trying in every possible way to limit the pk players? They are the same players, they are looking for fun, for them the penalty system works anyway. If you don't want to get stunned or slowed, buy/make protection from going through negative effects. My experience of playing mmo started with l2 in 2006, before that I was not interested in this genre. I still remember all those emotions that I got when we tried to get out of the city and catch the player's pk, I remember how he killed me and I got angry, I said, wait, I'll grow up and kick your ass, I remember how we teleported to others high-level towns and asked us to help catch the pk.I remember how we caught him and everyone had fun. And then when they caught up, they just laughed and joked about him. I remember when we created our clan and tried to raise it to the level, we ran around the area and looked for some things, and then we noticed a high level of pk in the distance and we ran away from him with the whole clan, shouting curses at him, and he ran after us and also cursed xD. I remember being a pk myself, how a mob of noobs hunted me. I remember we fought against the pc clan and it was a damn good battle. And there were a lot of great memories related to the pk system that I can tell. After all, it is precisely such moments that you will remember, and not how you killed 1000 mobs in safety. What are you worried about? For the numbers of lost experience or for the virtual things that you drop? Vivid memories are much more important.

Damn, this testemony gives me the teary eyes!
Beautiful testemony!

Same thing as me:

in Ultima Onlihe there was a time I ran Bucaneer's Den as a PK and 10-20 people visited me for fights
in WoW, I had most of my best PvP memories around Booty Bay, where everybody could fight even inside the city
in EVE, it was ganking haulers and miners, also when running kill rights (hunting criminals when they weren't in criminal timer anymore)

It is kinda crazy that Steven brought the corruption system to avoid excessive PK, but then there's node destruction where you lose 100% of all your shit

I can just wonder the shock people will feel while not being prepared to sustain losses early on

HAHAAHAHHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAAH

Chicago

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

Gospell wrote: »

I do not understand why you are trying in every possible way to limit the pk players? They are the same players, they are looking for fun, for them the penalty system works anyway. If you don't want to get stunned or slowed, buy/make protection from going through negative effects. My experience of playing mmo started with l2 in 2006, before that I was not interested in this genre. I still remember all those emotions that I got when we tried to get out of the city and catch the player's pk, I remember how he killed me and I got angry, I said, wait, I'll grow up and kick your ass, I remember how we teleported to others high-level towns and asked us to help catch the pk.I remember how we caught him and everyone had fun. And then when they caught up, they just laughed and joked about him. I remember when we created our clan and tried to raise it to the level, we ran around the area and looked for some things, and then we noticed a high level of pk in the distance and we ran away from him with the whole clan, shouting curses at him, and he ran after us and also cursed xD. I remember being a pk myself, how a mob of noobs hunted me. I remember we fought against the pc clan and it was a damn good battle. And there were a lot of great memories related to the pk system that I can tell. After all, it is precisely such moments that you will remember, and not how you killed 1000 mobs in safety. What are you worried about? For the numbers of lost experience or for the virtual things that you drop? Vivid memories are much more important.

Damn, this testemony gives me the teary eyes!
Beautiful testemony!

Same thing as me:
in Ultima Onlihe there was a time I ran Bucaneer's Den as a PK and 10-20 people visited me for fights

in WoW, I had most of my best PvP memories around Booty Bay, where everybody could fight even inside the city

in EVE, it was ganking haulers and miners, also when running kill rights (hunting criminals when they weren't in criminal timer anymore)

It is kinda crazy that Steven brought the corruption system to avoid excessive PK, but then there's node destruction where you lose 100% of all your shit

I can just wonder the shock people will feel while not being prepared to sustain losses early on

HAHAAHAHHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAAH

yep and the worst part is the corruption system as it stands almost prevents pking being even possible, for starters no one is going to risk equip gear to pk someone its just not worth it, secondly the fact that corruption has to be worked off and doesnt just tick down on a timer like you gain a 5 minute flag for killing someone is ridiculous too i know this enables bounty hunters but come on.. and then on top of that making it so the people being ganked have the advantage of not being stunned, etc etc, the whole system needs a re work, but as usual these suggestions just go in the no changes folder, and never addressed in AMAs or livestreams

Kilion

They really need to add a poll feature to the forum and announce important polls in the livestream to get some data on peoples opinion, ideally filtered by status of that players (member, active since Alpha 1, Kickstarter and so on).

That would be a reasonable allocation to put the marketing funds to use now, understand what their future player base is currently expecting and then address it in the next stream.

Arya_Yeshe

@Chicago there you go, some people around here understand what I am talking about!

Because the corruption system is a dangerous design choice, the devs will keep applying band-aids over band-aids and then all band-aids will all be pulled out when people lose everything they have in a siege

So, in the end of the day, will corruption protect people and player retention?
For sure it will protect against over pk and that only

Chicago

Kilion wrote: »

They really need to add a poll feature to the forum and announce important polls in the livestream to get some data on peoples opinion, ideally filtered by status of that players (member, active since Alpha 1, Kickstarter and so on).

That would be a reasonable allocation to put the marketing funds to use now, understand what their future player base is currently expecting and then address it in the next stream.

yep, in all honesty i think that the systems at this stage of development should be finished and just being tweaked, i dont think we should be even discussing adding anything new to the game until we get patches or alpha 2 etc, anything discussed in the livestreams should be updates on systems we already know about for example, caravans,nodes,character creator, naval content, sub classes, class reviews ( rogue bard etc ), i dont think 7 years into development we should even be having the discussion of '' is this a good idea '' or '' maybe we will add this to the game '', just polls on current systems, make changes to things that are already developed

Arya_Yeshe

Kilion wrote: »

They really need to add a poll feature to the forum and announce important polls in the livestream to get some data on peoples opinion, ideally filtered by status of that players (member, active since Alpha 1, Kickstarter and so on).

That would be a reasonable allocation to put the marketing funds to use now, understand what their future player base is currently expecting and then address it in the next stream.

I agree with you on this

Also, I think Intrepid could showcase options, option A, option B, etc in the stream, then make a poll about it

Chicago

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

@Chicago there you go, some people around here understand what I am talking about!

Because the corruption system is a dangerous design choice, the devs will keep applying band-aids over band-aids and then all band-aids will all be pulled out when people lose everything they have in a siege

So, in the end of the day, will corruption protect people and player retention?
For sure it will protect against over pk and that only

tbh i just see seiges as pve lol, my best experiences in pvp were roaming around with a group of friends maybe 3 or 4 looking for other groups doing the same thing and having little small scale fights in the open world, i dont want to have to worry about dropping my weapon or armor or not being able to do this, structured pvp is fine but not when its the only option, there is no risk to even going into the world

Arya_Yeshe

@Chicago check this shit, instead of having the actual corrution, what if:

since it's a high fantasy MMO, players could be allowed to attune themselves with a place, so you would be allowed to teleport to that place....

if you are very close to the place, then the teleport cooldown would be very fast
but if you travel too far away, like travelling to another region... then the cooldown would be huge... maybe 8-12 hours
if you were in another continent, then you wouldnt be able to teleport at all

just took this idea out of my arse and this is better than the actual corruption. It also helps PvE people to prepare against atackers, plan their travelling and understand risk-reward better

Kilion

Chicago wrote: »

yep, in all honesty i think that the systems at this stage of development should be finished and just being tweaked, i dont think we should be even discussing adding anything new to the game until we get patches or alpha 2 etc, anything discussed in the livestreams should be updates on systems we already know about for example, caravans,nodes,character creator, naval content, sub classes, class reviews ( rogue bard etc ), i dont think 7 years into development we should even be having the discussion of '' is this a good idea '' or '' maybe we will add this to the game '', just polls on current systems, make changes to things that are already developed

I would agree in so far that this would be the best case scenario, to have a fully finished design plan, even with core details of the subsystems and then have a working feedback system for the community to respond to these aspects while they are being implemented / presented.

However, I honestly think that is too much to ask from Intrepid. I still think of them as a studio that only recently promoted out of its "junior" status. I hope this means that they will be getting their, but honestly, I don't think we will see a crisp open production process for the game before A2. For the adjustments made until B1... maybe, but not before I don't think that's possible for them given the amount of pressure to finish the up on the systems. And as far as I know they are still not fully staffed, which is a huge factor.

With all that being said, while the process is far from ideal, I am fairly optimistic overall for regarding the quality of what Intrepid is building here. Including the corruption system. If it turns out that the details they added later are discouraging non objective based PvP too much, I don't think that Steven or anyone will insist on keeping the thumb screwed tight, they will loosen in such a case. After all the game changes will not happen if the incentives are skewed into either direction. And with (according to my own rough calculation) approximately 300k active players necessary to run this game successfully, I suspect there is no need to cater to Unreal Tournament level PvP players nor to those who accidentally stumbled into Ashes of Creation thinking was a nicer looking version of Animal Crossing.

My suspicion is they are just trying to keep their head low this year, trying to finish up on the core systems as much as possible so that they can make some sort of mayor announcement by the end of the year. Which is far from ideal a plan but I am optimistic they are not blindly aiming to suck up to a particular player base to the detriment of the games quality. My hopes for PvE-PvP balance adjustments are firmly on Alpha 2 I think beforehand we won't get much more feedback requests on systems than we are already getting.

And again - I'm not against PvP, nor against PvE, just trying to make the case that both require specific circumstances to work in the context of what we can assume to be already solidified decisions and how within this frame the game can be fun to play.

Vaknar

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Just because you disagree with someone's opinion, doesn't mean you're inherently right and they're inherently wrong.

You're free to disagree with the opinions of others but remember to be well unto one another! ^_^

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