#corruptioninthecloset - Against PvE griefing: what if there's a temptation feature?

Mobs, bosses, and corrupted areas can be tempting sources of corruption. If you succumb to corruption sourrounded by such sources of corruption, then your corruption score will be significantly higher if you commit to corruption. It's a feature that adds to your corruption score, much like ganking a player who is 20 levels bellow you will also increase your corruption score is also a small feature. This idea is not a new system, it is an input for the corruption function, just like level difference is an input too.

I believe this would greatly counter PvE griefing by a lot, specially when players are fighting againt bosses. Lore-wise it makes sense, because AoC is within the idea of good vs evil theme, players supposedly are born into being commited to fending off corruption spread in Verra.

In a heavily corrupted area, the enviroment itself should provide automatic temptation, if you commit to anything "bad" then you bring yourself a bigger corruption score. If the temptation is very extreme, like being around a boss, and you succumb to the temptation of killing anther player, then because the temptation is much greater here then you will embrace corruption in a much deeper level, your score will be much bigger

While a player is running around beautiful green forests covered by flowers and butterflies, there is no temptation at all, so the corruption score is that flimsy default score, where the corrupted may pick a few flowers and wash the corruption off.

But around mobs, elite mobs, bosses and heavily corrupted areas, the temptation would be brought autmatically from these sources, if you succumb to corruption then your corruption score would be based on the amount of temptation brought to you.

See? I like it simple, I would let temptation be in the air, when the when temptation is extremely high if you succumb to certain actions that bring corruption then you would take a dive in corruption... from 0 to 100 in a few clicks, it is up to the player to analyze the situation

If players face temptation from sources like mobs, bosses, or heavily corrupted areas, ganking a party after all the mobs were killed and after defeating the boss then the corruption score will only result in regular corruption. If the room itself offers temptation then the corruption score would be slighly increased for a gank.

During a difficult dungeon, temptation runs high, and if attackers gank defenders mid-fight against 40 elite mobs, the attackers will accrue a greater score in corruption since they are submerged in temptation from those 40 elite mobs. However, once all the elite mobs are dead, room is clear, defenders are free to deal with any gank attempts, making the situation fair and simple. So the temptation also brings balance to non-consensual PvP.

It is simple, organic, you can look around your surroundings and evaluate if you want to face additional corruption score and you will have a fair idea how deep you will dive beforehand. Gankers would actually help clearing the room or even the entire dungeon before a gank, otherwise they will receive crippling corruption

The higher the temptation, the deeper the fall into corruption

I do not believe there will be many corrupted players running around to be chased anyway, since people will wash the corruption by using alts or by the help of friends. But in boss fights and in PvE griefing, it will happen for sure and it will extremely frustrating for some people

It's lovely and elegant, almost poetic

ps: this idea is a series of ideas I will brand as "Corruption in the closet"
#corruptioninthecloset

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Comments

Songcaller

1. We don't know if killing a boss wipes the corruption from a first blood incident.
2. Why do we need to curb contestation on bosses?
3. Why would fake temptation matter to someone who aims to clear a boss room and not particularly care how much corruption is gained in the process?

Arya_Yeshe

Neurath wrote: »

1. We don't know if killing a boss wipes the corruption from a first blood incident.
2. Why do we need to curb contestation on bosses?
3. Why would fake temptation matter to someone who aims to clear a boss room and not particularly care how much corruption is gained in the process?

Oh, I guess you didn't read, fine, I will use my time to explain

1. PvE does, a boss could send multiple mobs and people will farm that and farm the boss, there's a chance people will leave the dungeon with the corruption fully washed off in an hour
2. ganks in boss rooms are no contest, it is just PvE griefing! People will still contest with guild wars, node wars, purple on purple, regular contest by DPS, regular contest by bringing a bigger and better party... people will be still able to gank the tank and a few healers, but there's a consequence to it
3. what? I mean... WHAT?! Just read the main post again, the answer is there

Songcaller

I did read the post which is how I got three points of contention.

If there are a lot of mobs and a boss then you would expect a much larger force going corrupt which is totally within the rules.

If there is only one boss we still don't know if that lone boss will clear corruption.

Contestation in a pvx game is not griefing.

Point 3 still stands.

Arya_Yeshe

Neurath wrote: »

I did read the post which is how I got three points of contention.

If there are a lot of mobs and a boss then you would expect a much larger force going corrupt which is totally within the rules.

If there is only one boss we still don't know if that lone boss will clear corruption.

Contestation in a pvx game is not griefing.

Point 3 still stands.

You are not speaking the truth about this, otherwise every tree is a contest and Steven would have turned off the corruption system entirely, specially inside dungeons and during boss fights. But it is not the case, corruption is on and very on, ganks during boss fights is just griefing, people are exploiting the limitations of the boss mechanics and the system's limitations.

Roleplay-wise and lore-wise, those defenders who are trying to kill a boss are defending Verra against corruption, if a second party of attackers shows up and kill them, then these attackers are aiding the spread of corruption in Verra. This party of attackers are helping corruption when there's more at stake

It is literally in the main post

Songcaller

Sometimes I think you live in a bubble.

The point of a dungeon is not to prevent corruption - that's a fluffy little lore extra. The whole point of a dungeon is to get loot and to stop others getting that loot.

Thus, the need to boost corruption - which only affects pvp (except loot drops) is a misnomer because it literally has no affect whether someone wants/needs to go corrupted.

Kilion

I'm not sure whether the objective of reducing green PKs can actually be achieved that way to begin with. If the temptation system would be required to further reduce the number of green kills, then that means the initial punishment was too light. And giving people a way to reduce the punishment from "unbelievably heavy" back to "so light that PKs would prioritize PvE over PKs" sounds like maintenance of a broken status more than anything else.

With that being said: The idea of having a mechanic play a bit with corruption is nothing I am fully against. I think it would make sense for a zone is basically void of almost all civilization becoming the target of The Others. In such a zone the amount of corruption gained is reduced until a certain quest line is finished to fend off the invaders or the influence my spread in parts to neighboring zones. So the motivation becomes to reestablish order, while your suggestion kind of strikes me as the other way around as reestablishing disorder. The PvE motivation to go into these zone would clearly be access to unique materials and a unique "corrupt dungeon" e.g. fighting inside a Harbinger.

All that being said, I think it would be a solid idea if the concept would work the other way around where player would be highly rewarded for taking additional risk, reclaiming a zone and reestablish the Order the Seven had intended.

Noaani

It is more likely that Steven will remove corruption around world bosses (and perhaps the biggest dungeon bosses) than it is that he will increase it.

I mean, the idea is to contest that content. That is literally what it is there for. This falls in to the same category as sieges and caravans (two content spheres that players used to discuss corruption gain issues with, until Steven made it not a thing).

I have been saying for many years now that I expect actual boss mobs to be in a battlefield area (the same kind of area as a caravan).

Arya_Yeshe

Kilion wrote: »

If the temptation system would be required to further reduce the number of green kills, then that means the initial punishment was too light

We are talking about dungeons and not about judging if corruption is enough or not. The logic behind this temptation feature is making corruption meaningful where the corruption system is most needed

The big and hard green kills will happen during boss fights, by killing the tank and healers and letting that entire party die to the boss. That's how you kill 40-50 people by kiling just 4-5, this is where the corruption goals should come at play

This is where PvE griefing screams at people, the true scourge of MMOs, that's where the big outcry will come from and not from a noob picking flowers in the woods

The truest PvE griefing happens in raids, dungeons, boss fights

Arya_Yeshe

Neurath wrote: »

Sometimes I think you live in a bubble.

What? I never said that, go read the main post
You are not even talking about PvE griefing in dungoens

Also, I will block you for excess of personal attacks and because you throw completely off topic posts like that

Kilion

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

Kilion wrote: »

If the temptation system would be required to further reduce the number of green kills, then that means the initial punishment was too light

We are talking about dungeons and not about judging if corruption is enough or not. The logic behind this temptation feature is making corruption meaningful where the corruption system is most needed

The big and hard green kills will happen during boss fights, by killing the tank and healers and letting that entire party die to the boss. That's how you kill 40-50 people by kiling just 4-5, this is where the corruption goals should come at play

This is where PvE griefing screams at people, the true scourge of MMOs, that's where the big outcry will come from and not from a noob picking flowers in the woods

The truest PvE griefing happens in raids, dungeons, boss fights

The way to "defend" against that is for one of those people to not defend against the PK. As soon as they die, the PK turns corrupt and will be another add for the party to kill, depending on what mechanics we get overall, one could even get the boss to attack the PK. Pull a CD to revive the fallen group member and focus on the boss again.

Another method to deal with this kind of thread is to go in prepared for PvP as well as PvE. Knowing that dungeon content can be contested, broad awareness of the terrain, groups in the area and proper positioning of key figures of the group will greatly reduce the chance of being ganked without us noticing.

With that being said: This is all just theories at this stage, the balance will be found once we get into the A2 where we will probably have plenty of time to see how heavily and ruthlessly content will be contested.

Noaani

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

Also, I will block you for excess of personal attacks and because you throw completely off topic posts like that

You block people if you don't want to see their posts.

You claim you are going to block people to get attention.

Songcaller

I haven't been off topic though. You just can't counter the arguments I've made. You don't have to state 'I live in a bubble' to come across as 'living in a bubble'. Also, you called me a liar with which I responded with the bubble statement so you get what you give.

My three points still stand. I do hope corruption is removed around key contestation events (World Bosses etc) however, I still don't see corruption as a viable method to prevent contestation around bosses which give resources for the best items in the game. You can label contestation as 'griefing' but it doesn't make contestation 'griefing'.

Arya_Yeshe

Kilion wrote: »

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

Kilion wrote: »

If the temptation system would be required to further reduce the number of green kills, then that means the initial punishment was too light

We are talking about dungeons and not about judging if corruption is enough or not. The logic behind this temptation feature is making corruption meaningful where the corruption system is most needed

The big and hard green kills will happen during boss fights, by killing the tank and healers and letting that entire party die to the boss. That's how you kill 40-50 people by kiling just 4-5, this is where the corruption goals should come at play

This is where PvE griefing screams at people, the true scourge of MMOs, that's where the big outcry will come from and not from a noob picking flowers in the woods

The truest PvE griefing happens in raids, dungeons, boss fights

The way to "defend" against that is for one of those people to not defend against the PK. As soon as they die, the PK turns corrupt and will be another add for the party to kill, depending on what mechanics we get overall, one could even get the boss to attack the PK. Pull a CD to revive the fallen group member and focus on the boss again.

Another method to deal with this kind of thread is to go in prepared for PvP as well as PvE. Knowing that dungeon content can be contested, broad awareness of the terrain, groups in the area and proper positioning of key figures of the group will greatly reduce the chance of being ganked without us noticing.

With that being said: This is all just theories at this stage, the balance will be found once we get into the A2 where we will probably have plenty of time to see how heavily and ruthlessly content will be contested.

People will still go assuming random PvP will happen even if there's a temptation input to the corruption score

The thing is that PvE griefing is extremely disruptive in these circunstances and in the current state of the corruption, it comes with no extra inputs other than level difference between players, the corruption score of these attackers will be minimal and they will force a party wipe

It doesn't matter if your party comes to kill a boss assuming pvp will happen, if your tank is dead and the healers are dead, the boss will kill your entire party since your party has agressed the boss and they are qeued to be attacked next. The defenders will all be killed by the boss, the attackers will get a little corruption since a level 50 killing another 50 gives the standard corruption score. Then the attackers will finish the boss and start washing off their corruption

Probably these attackers will leave the dungeon with their corruption fully washed off already, while being guilt of PvE griefing in a major scale

Mag7spy

Honestly don't think they should be removing corruption it be a bad idea imo. BDO had corruption gain and allowed pk and eventually made it so you couldn't even pk at bosses.

The pk that should happen to allow you to contest it should be between guilds / nodes and more planned war with decs. That way people involved will fight and leave the people that don't care or are in smaller guilds to do their thing and try to get some loot. Best of both worlds.

Arya_Yeshe

Mag7spy wrote: »

Honestly don't think they should be removing corruption it be a bad idea imo. BDO had corruption gain and allowed pk and eventually made it so you couldn't even pk at bosses.

The pk that should happen to allow you to contest it should be between guilds / nodes and more planned war with decs. That way people involved will fight and leave the people that don't care or are in smaller guilds to do their thing and try to get some loot. Best of both worlds.

Contest will still happen, people will still pk, will do dps contest, guild wars, etc

Kilion

Mag7spy wrote: »

Honestly don't think they should be removing corruption it be a bad idea imo. BDO had corruption gain and allowed pk and eventually made it so you couldn't even pk at bosses.

The pk that should happen to allow you to contest it should be between guilds / nodes and more planned war with decs. That way people involved will fight and leave the people that don't care or are in smaller guilds to do their thing and try to get some loot. Best of both worlds.

That's actually a good point that you don't need to land the killing strike for the loot but have to contribute some meaningful damage in the fight and you can gain some rewards. That feature in itself will not completely stop PKs during world boss fights but if it was the intention to not have any PKs, the possibility for it would not be programmed into the game.

Good reminder, thanks for that @Mag7spy

Mag7spy

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Honestly don't think they should be removing corruption it be a bad idea imo. BDO had corruption gain and allowed pk and eventually made it so you couldn't even pk at bosses.

The pk that should happen to allow you to contest it should be between guilds / nodes and more planned war with decs. That way people involved will fight and leave the people that don't care or are in smaller guilds to do their thing and try to get some loot. Best of both worlds.

Contest will still happen, people will still pk, will do dps contest, guild wars, etc

I literarily say guild wars should be a thing in my post, if people pk they pk and have to deal with heavy consequences.

It is about creating meaningful pvp not a messy pvp fest or allow major guilds on servers to pk everyone easily and have a monopoly on the best resources allowing them to stay on top easily. (that is not saying they won't get plenty oy of gear from bosses by doing the most dmg / etc).

Pking with corruption also comes with its own risk with so many players around, you become a target just as big as the boss since you have a chance to drop equipped gear, not to mention the boss threat as well killing you.

Songcaller

So, you want the top guilds to be able to out perform lesser guilds and gain the loot plus force those lesser guilds to go corrupt and also loose gear to stop the top guilds in the contestation?

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