Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Comments
If the dodge roll had an iframe here he might have escaped with Cone of Cold AoE slows afterwards.
For the rest of your comment I agree.
If anything, that little clip shows how bad the current dodge is. Perhaps a double dodge would be better or perhaps an iftame would be better. However, if you only dodge or block at less than 5% health we have bigger issues.
1. Player agency / mobility:
I really like the slowed down mobility while casting, it still gives you some sort of control over your character and a chance to doge for example some AOE effects without the need to cancel your casting but at the same time still give your enemy a good chance to catch up with you and don´t be endlessly kited. Important thing I would say is that the movement while casting for the most spells need to stay slowed down but maybe add some variety to the amount of movement deficit to different spells, some with more, some with less.
2. Spell-transition / visuals:
So far, I liked the spell visuals and their transitions for the mage. Seeing the first Balllightning, Blizzard and Chainlightning had me speechless for a second in a very good sense of course. Seeing Keenan’s AOE rotation was really smooth with throwing the Ball into blinking, into pre applying the frozen status to set up the shatter effect when the Ball got in dmg range, really good stuff.
3. Complexity / Interaction from elemental effects:
I hope I don’t get booed and hunted for mention this game here, but I think the variety of elemental reactions and interactions between them were made incredibly well in Genshin Impact, since their whole combat is based on the different interactions between elements. So, if you guys want some more inspiration and implementation examples of elemental reactions, I recommend taking a look at their element systems.
Now to what I saw in the live stream. How complex things should be, in my opinion I really like the easy to learn, hard to master way of playing a class. So far applying stacks of chill to get the frozen status and triggering shatter with lightning is a nice and I would say basic way to learn/understand the overall mage combat, assuming it has the same/similar way to get there with the addition of fire and earth element BUT I would not stop there with the interactions and status effects you could apply.
I’ll give some examples (inspired a bit from Genshin Impacts reactions):
Let’s say we introduce the status effect “wet” which you apply after applying the frozen status and triggering “melt” with a fire spell. The “wet” status itself might apply a slight movement /animation speed reduction, since having a bunch of wet clothes on feels just bad most of the time and they stick to your body hindering your movements. Now casting a lightning type spell on a “wet” status may make them “electrified” applying an additional DOT effect that deals damage and maybe has a chance to stun the target with every tick for a short time let’s say 0,5 seconds and applying additional lightning spells during the DOT duration may increase that stun chance. Now a different interaction starting again from the “wet” status effect, attacking the target now with earth type spells stacks up the “muddy” condition, slightly slowing down the movement / animations even further with every stack. Now at max. stacks of the “muddy” effect you can cast a fire spell drying and hardening the applied mud to clay getting the “clayed” status. The “clayed” status will have the same effect as the “frozen” status but instead with lightning you will shatter the “clayed” status with an earth spell dealing additional damage and reducing the accuracy rating from the enemy with the formed dust / sand when breaking the clay hull.
I could go on and on with these types of interactions, like melting the Icecone spell forming a big puddle of water, which can be electrified applying the scenario above in AOE form or to be turned into a little swamp area with earth spells giving the enemies a good mud bath.
I hope this is the type of feedback you guys want and actually can do something with it. I don’t know much about the programming limitations to implement and balancing something like this on the big MMO scale but I guess throwing more ideas at you guys is at least something I can do to possibly help. Keep up your hard work on the game, I'll will be patiently wating as long as it might take
SO clean!
That being said i will least some mage talking points:
1. Spread of light in the enviroment, i have a forum thread about it here: https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/55534/why-some-spell-effects-in-ashes-does-not-fit-the-enviroment#latest
2. Ball lightning movement with terrain should be lerped so it does not jitter that much
3. Particles dropped by the spells should follow the physic rules, so ice shards should melt, not fly with the wind.
4. Some spells like shell needs particles when shield disappears, also weapon empowerment should apply visual particles to your weapon
5. There should be marker on UI tell player how much shield they have left
Other than that spells are pretty good and i like the lack of clear borders of the spell like in example of blizzard
I think a lot of the player feedback echoes a call back to nostalgia and that in itself is an actual trap and it's removing much of the games identity.
I'm not sure what he was referring to in terms of Mages being literal gods.
Don't tell anyone that class fantasy/design and combat overlap, even though combat and class fantasy are married to each other.
The AI definitely needs a hell of a lot off work.
"It only proves that we are too restricted as players to react as we wish."This is a real ringer, there seems to be FOMO for the cosmetics and FOBLO for the classes in the minds of the community. Which is going to make a boring experience and class designs. The interdependent neediness doesn't make for a good experience, it makes for a shit one.
I think the best baseline for this is in Valheim, perfect block being rewarded with regular blocking (actual bracing), reducing damage taken with some sort of damage/exhaustion mechanic. Well timed maneuvers need to be rewarded, but allows for more buttons and play to make the regular block and dodge more interesting.
They're really just showing off a theme here, Steven himself has said in the discord that he's not concerned with balance, tuning, etc.
He's just after class fantasy and identity mostly.
Yes. By observing the arguments and concerns of others that there will not be synergies between players I've come to the conclusion that people have really different understanding in what synergy is.
To high skill ceiling players, synergy doesn't need to be an actual observable mechanic in game, it needs to be the result of players working together at a very high level.
The real problem with animations cancels is that often times they're an accident and they prevent crisp visual and audio data, if a games visual and audio data sucks then the games going to play poorly. They would have to deliberately design animation canceling in order to speed up the animations and sound. As not to obscure the data.
Variety is good.
Well Mage is just an archetype, the class is finalized after they choose their secondary.
I actually really love their older stuff, I liked the uniqueness the team had with those abilities had more arcane involvement rather than the mage which we have now.
I think this whole throwback to nostalgia is going to endanger the games identity.
There comes a point when abilities become bloat.
High APM doesnt necessarily dictate skill, GW2 has Mesmer which doesn't have the highest APM but its probably one of the highest skillcap and unique classes in the entire genre.
Overall damn good post, wish there was more of this.
Agreed! Compared to Chrono Odyssey the Ashes combat is almost criminally bad. It's hard to believe they are using the same engine! Hopefully the team takes a hard look at what they've shown so far and takes a good heaping of queues from this game!
Combat isn't the Queen, it isn't the King.
It's the God-Emperor of the systems in place that make a enjoyable.
Especially from a PvP standpoint.
Hopefully the boss encounter this month will be an eye opener in terms of ashes.
i guess you can customize your keybinds, other than that i agree with your post, but im not sure if intrepid can pull it off
(Yes, that is a challange intrepid)
I am possibly the oldest Mage in Gaming. you will have to wait till Beta for my test and approval but hey nothings perfect in the beginning. i think i've played at least 20 Mages in different Games.
also pick the most abstract skilling.
So waiting for Beta Ticket.
The mage preview has me stoked for the game. I love the technical abilities of your engineers, designers and artists. The mage preview captivates me in all ways and would become my 4th option if other classes fall through. I realise the mage is only at phase 2 but the mage is a holistic way of a much better mage than others in the same category even without the polish.
How do you feel about being able to move while casting spells? Do you like the agency given to you, or does it feel unnatural?
I think its good to be able to move when casting spells. I think all classes should be able to move and fight with abilities. It provides counter play, forward movement, manoeuvrability and overall greater feedback than static combat.
How do you feel about the transitions between spells? Does this feel natural to you?
I prefer the transitions without a GCD and I prefer the animations to maintain the cohesion. I felt the transitions between the spells were perfect, even without cooldowns when steven played. The abilities weren't stunted or shunted by the cooldowns though thanks to no GCD which I prefer.
How do you feel about the general or rotational complexity of the Mage Archetype? Does it feel too simple, too hard, or just right?
I feel the mage is simplistic in form but complex in mastery. There are nuances to the combat which i love as well as synergies which i adore. I love the way the abilities and the damage types can be woven together to provide bigger payoffs.
What excites you about playing as, with, or against the Mage Archetype?
As a mage i am excited to be able to do a lot of aoe damage. With a mage i am excited to be able to synergise with the status effects (i hope). against a mage I'm excited to be able to interrupt and chase down the mage.
What are your favorite Mage archetypes in other games? Please provide examples when applicable.
Blood Mage from Vanguard - Damage/Healer. Enchanter from DnD - Control and Damage.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Mage Archetype?
The ice effects need to be toned down to look more like ice. I loved the ball lightning. I'm excited by the saturation, colouration and sophistication for phase 2. I'm concerned the Mage won't be very good in PvP against the Ranger but we haven't seen PvP for a while. I also feel diminishing returns should exist on Sleep. I realise there won't be 1v1 balance in PvP and for this reason I think Mage will perform better in group PvP.
Much love and thank you for your dedication
i like that you can move slowly whilst casting some abilities.
for the abilities that is effective over time like blizzard you should deal more damage for each hit the opponent gets hit or gets slowed by x amount of % for each hit/second he spends in the blizzard zone until he gets killed/stunned.
really exited to see the rest of the abilities and what the secondary archtypes can do for the mage.
Also, not sure what the status effects actually do (still watching the preview), but would suggest possibly a slight “haze”/“whiteout” effect for chilled… something visual on the receivers screen that shows they have been hit with cold. Not enough to inhibit their gameplay but some form of higher order visual clue. That combined with cone of cold or blizzard would add to the power “felt” by being hit by those spells.
I love it. I like a light stagger on caster abilites, and everything I've seen about the movement and spell/ability design is appealing to me.
I like Mages that cast AoE damage, some AoE CC, AoE debuffs, and lots of single-target burst variations. Obviously also plenty of creative self-utility.
I wouldn't be too afraid about overlapping with the Bard-type. Just make sure the support classes have slightly stronger CC and different debuffs than Mages, and a higher focus on group play, and people will still be interested in both archetypes.
Single-target damage for Mages should include skill paths that specialise on DoT & proc application, burst, or cc/debuffs, and it shouldn't be possible for one build to get the best of all worlds.
Just please keep an open mind about giving classes lots of abilities. MMOs are so much more fun when I get to decide on the spot which of my 25-45 skill slots is the right one to choose at any given moment, than if I'm limited to 1 or 2 skill bars (let alone action combat numbers.)
Don't forget that allowing players to fill 2-4 skill bars doesn't necessarily mean every player has to do so in order to be effective, either. So it's not like the possibility has to be something that scares off players who prefer a leaner HUD and minimalist skillset, either.
And if you do stay open about this design element, also don't forget that allowing players to slot 30+ skills still requires the game to offer about twice as many viable skills to exist for the class, to open up room for specialisation, so not every player does the same thing with their class.
- This is going in a fantastic direction. I like the skills so far and the animations are really shaping up.
How do you feel about being able to move while casting spells? Do you like the agency given to you, or does it feel unnatural?- Please do not lock mages in place. This is a super frustrating component of mages in many games, and deters a significant number of players. (GW2 = good example; FFXIV = bad example)
How do you feel about the transitions between spells? Does this feel natural to you?- I'm not sure if I can say whether it currently feels natural, but it needs to.
How do you feel about the general or rotational complexity of the Mage Archetype? Does it feel too simple, too hard, or just right?- Mage can be more complex than other classes, but not so much that the complexity deters people from playing, or that not playing in a super specific way makes you entirely useless or rejected from group play.
What excites you about playing as, with, or against the Mage Archetype?- The high potential for burst damage and control options, however I will say that this needs to be very balanced so that mages don't feel useless when they are not bursting, and so that mages don't avoid using other functions of their toolkits in order to avoid reducing damage.
What are your favorite Mage archetypes in other games? Please provide examples when applicable.- GW2 elementalist is the best I have come across in terms of utility, damage, and balance. FFXIV blackmage is terrible. Very few people play, it doesn't allow movement, you have to cripple your damage by using virtually non-damaging skills in order to balance the mana, and you have to time things in ways that feel overly frustrating and controlling in order to maximize damage. It is basically unviable to play if you are not an expert. Whatever you do, please do not do that.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Mage Archetype?I have mix feeling about this livestream as a all.
I'll stick to the points you ask feedback for, to keep it short but just to let you know that I'm a loose on what was the point of this show.
- At first I was pleased, looked good enough for pre-A2, not really anything outstanding except the interaction with the terrain that is really good to see. Then you announced that some of the ability were augmented ... ( btw it irritated me when I saw it, most of my feedback weren't relevant anymore)
At that point was the show case of a lvl 15 mage or a lvl 25+ mage ? Or augments are available before we get access to the class ?
- I don't have anything too say about the agency give by the movement, because I have no idea how efficient it is in combat. If we had a proper interaction with a mob or a player it would have been better.
But it does look natural and good so far.
- I couldn't find any specific transitions between spells, so it's good I guess.
- Don't have much to say about complexity, I'm not mage player, but seems to be easy to survive with it.
- I'm more concerned about playing against a Mage than excite. With the number of CC the Mage has in his kit. But we don't know how much of those they will have access to so far, so I'll let it at this.
- None
- I'm concerned that the show made us see a Mage far in development with a lot of possibility, and in the end we are not sure about what was showed because it was funny to hide some information about what was showed...
How do you feel about being able to move while casting spells? Do you like the agency given to you, or does it feel unnatural? It feels good, its necessary however cast speed and animation is another important factor that needs to be taken in consideration. Spells like Blizzard for a Mage should be long range ground targetted and not centered on the caster, even if moving because the Mage puts themselves in unnecessary risk getting close to a group of mobs just to use an AOE like Blizzard. A pvp mindset should also be considered... how is this going to work in PVP? If you are channeling Blizzard and cant cast anything else, is Blizzard even a worthwhile ability to use? not really, however if you can cast and set it somewhere on the field and then resume the control of your character to cast other things or react to the enemy then it will have far more use, especially if some enemies are perfectly content in sitting in the Blizzard and hitting you while you cant dodge, mitigate or counter/cast anything else.
How do you feel about the transitions between spells? Does this feel natural to you? The speed in cast/animation of the spells is overall good but should be finetuned to the point where a sequence of spells can be cast fluidly or that when cast in sequence or through triggers can allow them to be cast at almost the same pace. Its ok to have slow and fast spells, with the slow ones likely having more impact... however if they are meant to be in a sequence then certain effects/triggers should speed up or make slow casts fast or instant to allow the mage to keep the same tempo mid-engagement.
How do you feel about the general or rotational complexity of the Mage Archetype? Does it feel too simple, too hard, or just right? It doesnt feel fluid and doesnt feel like they really work off each other and smoothly as they should. They should trigger insta casts or faster casts on slow spells and the stacks and effects werent as evident or noticeable as they should be. Wasnt feeling the lightning stacks has as much noticeable interplay with other spells and the building of the stacks didnt result in a prominent result for building them.
What excites you about playing as, with, or against the Mage Archetype? Range gameplay, variation in combo based on different scenarios and a felt impact on the battle field through nimble quick casts and hard felt big spells and AOE.
What are your favorite Mage archetypes in other games? Please provide examples when applicable.
Zeus in the game Smite, has cool interplay where each auto attack add a stack of lightning to the target that can then be detonated with a spell to do damage based on stacks present, it is what I was hoping to see with the lightning ability.
Agni in Smite also has a cool spell combination with a circular gas spell he places on the ground and any other followup fire ability that also hits/overlaps with the gas on the ground explodes the gas and stuns anyone present in the gas.
Fire mage in WOW has a plethora of fast and slow spells that when combod together can create a sustained barrage by allow crits to proc the slow fireball casts to be instant cast, allowing fast weak hitting fireblasts with high crit to be intervowen in a combination to cause crits to allow the hard hitting fireballs or certain mid-sized aoe spells to be cast instantly and maintain a fast pace of movement and casting.
Ice mage in WOW allow the acquisition of ice shards through autoattacks that can be detonated for a barrage of icicles. Arcane mages in WOW and Firestaff mages in New World can cast a symbol on the ground that when staying inside can greatly increase the output of the mage, particularly used when not being focused or not much movement is needed. Blink has to allow you to blink directly regardless of where you are facing, allowing a mage to blink right or backwards while facing an enemy as it would reduce predictability. Blizzard has to be a long range set spell, channeled or not. Mages shouldnt be that close to a pack of mobs or a PVP enemy channeling a low damaging spells with low mobility. New World has some good Ice Gauntlet and Firestaff mage abilities that inspiration can be drawn from as well as WOW. But whats more important is that a fluid sequence of ideal spells must be evident to players so they know what to use in which scenario and then have noticeable interplay with their spells rather than just throwing out random spells because, if there is anything that you can trust players to do is that, they will find the optimal combo of spells that provide the ideal benefits and effects/result and the spells that dont serve a purpose and have little to no interplay or clear advantage why they should be used over other, these spells would not be used.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Mage Archetype? My concerns is fluidity, mobility and agency. While I have talked already about fluidity and mobility already... agency is another important part. PVE is nice and all, but if the game is weak in PVP then that will be tough to justify picking the class. We all know how elite PVPers are going to find optimal burst combos and openers on unsuspecting players or players who see it coming and have little agency of their character because they might be stuck in a chain CC combo of rotations between stuns, staggers, silences, etc. where the Mage just wont be able to play and react or counter. I hope this is taken into consideration when making all characters because theres nothing i cringe more at than seeing a mage or healer trying to cast an important spell that an adept PVPer will kick or silence before completion followed by combinations in which the caster cant cast or move or act. I hope this gets addressed as well. WoW provides mages and healers some means of escape through immunity of CC, breaking out of CC, or some sort of panic button to regain character agency. New World has some of these options too, but for some classes they allow them to switch weapons for example to a Rapier weapon that provides the utility needed to escape or react. A lot of PVPers will be looking at this game and if theres an overabundance of CC and lack of mobility and agency of players, it can get frustrating for many. The feeling of how you engage and maneuver in combat is so important that for some games its a make or break aspect. Balance doesnt have to be the best as thats something no game has perfected, however if the gameplay feels sluggish or slow or unimpactful then the players will likely turn away from the spells and abilities that dont merit their use or creates that friction in mobility/fluidity.
The ''Walking while casting'' is a 100% yes for me. we all know the typical ''Static'' Mage from Back then but i think THAT is more unnatural.
Moving while casting looks and feels more natural i think.
Hello Everyone! So Here is my feedback!
How do you feel about the Mage Archetype so far?
How do you feel about being able to move while casting spells? Do you like the agency given to you, or does it feel unnatural?:
a blizzard should be a mighty endgame spell. it should be driven by logic and physics so that the enemy actually feels like trapped in a blizzard so it should be HUGE ( 20 meter at least) and you should be able to surprise players with that spell... just imagine being trapped in a real blizzard an you know what kind of feeling you want to deliver... be logical with spells and abilities.. what does it do to you what are the effects that is my overall suggest for all of the combat.. I mean you want to create and deliver emotion and you want us to be in touch with the game so make it feel real. its a fckn blizzard not some crystals falling from the sky!! its brutal its loud its cold its WIND & ICE!!!
How do you feel about the transitions between spells? Does this feel natural to you?
How do you feel about the general or rotational complexity of the Mage Archetype? Does it feel too simple, too hard, or just right?
I think your overall thinking about magic is wrong. in your vid you show a guy casting frost spells in the summer. I mean you could channel the small percentage of water out of the air around you but I think as a mage you are able to manipulate matter but not create it. moving electrons to display your channeled matter would be nice ..If you are next to a river you can channel water and manipulate it so you can shoot frostbolts... or make the river frozen for some time to pass it. to channel fire you need the sun or lava... just make the combat reasonable and logical.
What excites you about playing as, with, or against the Mage Archetype?
Mages should be able to transfer, manipulate and combine the elements in a logical and reasonable way to fight other players or use it for themself for defense, transportation, etc.
for example: im in a dungeon and a dragon did set us on fire .. so I run to the little pond next to the raid group and channel water to cast a big wave to extinguish the fire that was burning the raid members and environment.
another example: im running from a warrior and im freezing the river in front of me so that I can pass it and when the warrior enters the ice I make it water again so he is slowed heavily or even took away from the forces of the river.
next one: I have been channeling fire recently and there is two guys attacking me so i combine the almost always available earth element with the fire and create a pool of lava to their feet.
next: I channel water from a pond and next I channel electricity .. now im able to shot water and electricity together... by the way .. I think an frost-fire-bolt is just not possible an not logic.
Mages should have some kind of force to blast enemies like Gandalfs blast in the Battle for Middle Earth games.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Mage Archetype?
Lightning Strike: why don't channel it like in the video, but shoot it out of your wand/ hand/ sword if you are a battlemage? It would be nice to channel the electricity like its shown the video and use it more than one way. For example as a battle mage you put it on you're sword to give it kind of an enchantment over a small period of time. Same with any other element of course.
Ok that's it for now I hope you can make combat feel reasonable and logic and still keep it magical and supernatural!
hope you can get good things out of my comment!
See you!
pacing
- Or maybe the meta large scale battle abilities have speed debuffs, so the large scale battles can be toned down pace wise, but without having to tone down the pacing of small scale fights
-I would like to see sustainability for the mana/health, to allow players to stay in the flow of the fight
-There was a lot of downtime between skill usage due to cooldowns, which makes combat seem less engaging. Most of your time in combat should be using abilities, rather than waiting for them to come off cooldown.
skill gap
2. fluidity/flow between skill usage
-The incentive to use different skills is there, but the fluidity between different skills usage seems to not quite be there, there seems to be a lot of gaps in the flow where you are waiting on cooldowns
- I think the skills should focus on being designed to set the player up for the usage of other skills, so they flow into each other naturally and organically if a skilled player is able to recognnize it. (things like repositioning skills, such as pulling long range enemies into close range, to set up for a close range skill)- This encourages engaging with full combat system and is very satisfying to organically transition between skills by reacting to enemy position, rather than landing one hit then feeling obligated to do some predetermined rotation/combo without much thought. I think having lots of niche options at different ranges, while also having lots of pushes/pulls that allow you to lead into these different ranged options helps with this fluidity and skillful distance control and spacial awareness.
-Just like I read some others on here say, I think its important to have a high amount of actions-per-minute for engaging and fun combat, its not fun to wait around, and the players that want a slow-and-steady type of gameplay should have those options in other systems such as artisanship or tavern games and such- so the combat system is the place for the players to have fun for those who like high intensity fast-paced and quick-thinking type of gameplay
-Some of the cast times are very slow, it seems like this hurts the overall pacing and sense of free movement. The risk/reward element of certain skills having slower cast times is great, but I feel like this could be overall tuned to be not quite so slow or rooted for so long.
- For combat systems that I like, I noticed that its set up so that low risk options open up opportunities to lead into higher risk skills- this way you can play optimally with low commitment options, but still get to engage with fun/fluid combat when you land those lower risk options through more safely transitioning into the higher risk skills that are more difficult to pull off on their own.
- Im also concerned about the potential balance between range and melee classes, when seeing some hard CC skills being very easy to land on the enemy without much skill. You want there to be counterplay between both melee and ranged, and allow both to have opportunities to put themselves in advantageous situations against the other through skillful play. If there is no skill involved in hard CC abilities then it will be too easy for that class to control distance and there will be no counterplay for the opponent to get to their preferred range, and the ability will be either completely overpowered through ease of controlling the distance between combatants, or it will be nerfed and be useless allowing the enemy to control distance and dominate. Distance control should be key to victory in a fun combat system, thus it should be very skillful to control distance and put yourself in combat situations where your class can excel, that way each class has opportunity to win based on player skill.
-I would like to see more of how defense/offense interact with each other, to be able to judge the fluidity between offense/defense during combat
- I think there should be a slight element of the "bullet hell" genre in a good ranged combat system. There should be a lot of manual dodging and weaving to avoid a barrage of ranged attacks, and alternatively, fun and action-packed usage of these ranged attack from the offensive perspective. The positioning aspect should matter, so it shouldn't just be about having skills that automatically "detarget" you if you are tabbed, which is not very compelling imo.
-I really liked the elemental synergies, and class ability (elemental empowerment) a lot.
3. Agency
Regarding the freedom of movement aspect of agency
Regarding the choice matters, and strategy/tactics aspect of agency
Increasing the overall quantity of accessible skills would be great. I noticed like 15, and I heard in the past that 20 slotted was being considered so I hope they go with at least that amount, It adds to the nuance of combat by having niche tactical options to engage with, which is healthy for a long-term combat system.
If the "direction" of the mage is that they will have skills representing:
1. mobility
2. cc/utility
3. defense
4. aoe/single target dps
I think that it is okay, but maybe missing some elements I will go into.
-I would like to see skills that blend elements of each with each other, such as a mobility skill that also has defensive benefits (such as a blink ability that sets ice mines along its path). This adds more depth and variety in strategy/tactics allows for more niche combat options
- I would also like to see some additional team based abilities on the mage, similar to how the tank has a way of protecting its team. I could possibly be misinterpreting the direction of the mage, in that the aoe attacks such as chain lightning fill the role of supporting your team in group content in a more offensive way, but if there are mage builds that focus more on defense/support then obviously it would be nice to see group based versions of these.
-I think there should be a high variety of projectile types, by borrowing design from fps games. Things like having projectile skills that tweak the ratios of fire rate/damage/recoil (how far you get thrown back)/accuracy/handling(how responsive it is)/effective range (range it can be performed or get max damage)/etc.
This could add a lot of variety and fun options in the skills like having a steady stream of fire or continuous icicle barrage, vs stronger single-fire options like a giant icicle spear or lightning bolt
- I think it would be fun to have ricocheting skill shot projectiles as well, that allow you to bank skills or projectiles off of the "geometry" in the world, like rocks and stuff like that.
- I read someone else mention a cool idea of being able to detonate certain projectiles you shoot, such as the lightning ball, which sounds like a fun idea as well
- I Absoutely love skills that let you control space (things like the area-denial ice mines). This is a great way to add depth and skill to combat without relying too much on direct CC. I hope there are a ton of area-denial tools or other skills that help with controlling space, for all the different classes.
-I also love skills that "do there own thing" or have lasting effects after they have been casted, where you can cast them, then do something else while they are still active. This makes it fun to plan ahead sequences of attacks and how you can potentially string them together as you strategize around and react to the opponent based on range/timing/their behaviors/etc. This organic way of making comboes is much more fun than having just a handful of one-size-fits-all pre-determined rotations.
-I think you should double down on having a variety of skills that specialize at different distances, such as short/mid/long range options, or potentially variations of existing skills that have different effects at these ranges or can be manually adjusted to work at different ranges by the player (like charging an attack to make it go further)
-I think there should be active skills that let you manage your health/mana in a more engaging way that adds depth and fun to the combat.
-I would also like to see more buffs/debuffs you can apply that relate to the different types of skills (offensive/defensive/mobility/cc/etc.)
In addition to these types of effects, there are also some really creative ideas I had a lot of fun creating synergies with in the game "Minecraft Dungeons", where there were effects such as
1. A dubuff of chains that binded groups of enemies to stay close to each other (which was useful for both maintaining distance on multiple enemies and for keeping enemies close to each other to set up for aoe attacks)
2. a buff spawning companions in to distract enemies (Like several small fast bees, or bulkier slower types.)
3. Etc.
This can add a lot to the game when there are a lot of different effects that you can use to synergize with your abilities.
-It would be cool if there were more elemental combination effects (basically more complex elemental relationships), such as fire melting ice into puddles, which then amplify electricity when an enemy is standing in the puddle. A game that did this in an interesting way was a battle royale game called "Spellbreak".
4. Mage examples:
- its hard to give "examples of good mages" from other games, without just referencing games that just have great combat systems in general, of which would work great for creating a mage archetype if adapted into the visual style and mmo setting of ashes.
-to me, I want a reason to play ashes combat over other games that focus purely on combat. I think it would be wise to pull elements that align with ashes philosophy from not just mmos, but from any other games that do combat best, in order to hopefully make something even better.
-example of good mage from other games:
The best mages (and combat in general) I can think of are from these games-
1. spheromancer class from "Crosscode"
2. Wizard of Legend
3. dragons dogma
4. Abilities in general from "Kingdoms of amalur: reckoning"
5. the magic used in the "Nioh" series (mainly Nioh 2)
For mmos specifically, maybe "Dragon nest", "Lost ark", or "BDO"
Pretty much games that let you feel like Avatar the Last airbender, chaining together a variety of elemental skills in a fast and fluid martial-arts type combat.
5. Individual skills:
lightning skill- arcing lightning is a good idea as a niche skill
chain lightning skill- looked good
ice cone- (I love the area denial/spacial control tools, please emphasize this for all classes)
blink (love the mobility tools, please emphasize the tools for gap closing and creating distance for all classes)
lightning ball - (love the idea of a "fire-and-forget" strong but slow moving projectile)
blizzard- good example of free movement leaning a bit toward being too slow, I would prefer that it is tuned up across the board
sleep- I hope you stick with the idea of risk vs. reward through requiring more skill to be rewarded with strong cc affects like sleep. The stronger cc should be tied to the action skills or more skillful/difficult actions to pull off, such as timed perfect blocks and such.
Extra:
-collision needs work as well
1- From what we know, the game doesn't have big burst damage, and the PvP combat will be "slower" than in other MMO's. That means, more time in combat, which equals to more time in melee range against classes like warrior, guardian, rogues... and the only non casted ability I've seen is cone of cold. Walking while casting is cool and all, but that walking speed won't help escaping from melee classes. The walking speed is fine, but we will certainly need more instant besides cone of cold (and / or getting free CD's through procs) so it won't be completely useless while moving.
2- About the electrified status: Does each stack increase the magical mitigation? Or 1 stack offers the same mitigation as 9? I'm asking it with smth in mind, and it's a non electric build where you just use 1 electric skill to keep up the debuff for amplified damage with the rest of the skills.
3- "Spammable" skills. I believe there are no skills with no cooldown (correct me if I'm wrong). I know of the importance of weapon attacks, but in a scenario where you have the 3 ice skills (for example) and you just used all 3 skills, you have no way of increasing its elemental status in case you target a different enemy, or if you intercalate a different element skill on the same enemy. That's why having some skills with no cooldowns could be important, unless it's intentional to add more "risk" and punish "bad choice" of spells.
For now the class is looking promising, and it's soon to take conclussions... but those were my main concerns (specially the 1º one)
How do you feel about the Mage Archetype so far?
It feels very good !
The visual effects and variety of spells looks great.
Special mention to the blizzard spell, it's awesome!
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How do you feel about being able to move while casting spells? Do you like the agency given to you, or does it feel unnatural?
I love it. Have you considered adding some kind of bonus/malus attached to moving + casting ?
Such as adding a little bit to the casting time while moving (malus), or adding a little bit of damages if staying still (bonus) ?
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How do you feel about the general or rotational complexity of the Mage Archetype? Does it feel too simple, too hard, or just right?
It feels really okay, adding a little bit of complexity could make it really better.
For example, I'd love to be able to have some control over the trajectory of the Ball Lightning spell after its launch (through talent point or a small casting time for example).
So that it's not mandatory to use it in order to make damages, but with good controls one can get a lot more out of this spell.
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Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Mage Archetype?
The synergies between elements, status effect, the variety of spells and augments is something I'm really excited to play with. A whole realm of possibilities to destroy everything in a flashy way
I also appreciate a lot that you've added some utilities spells in the toolkit of the mage, IMO it's great for any character to have this kind of stuff.
One more thing about the "The longer you cast, the better the damages". I do like the concept for its flexibility. It would be great to have this mechanism on all casting spells.
Also, the wand attacks look cool
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A small concern about the visuals of the Lightning strike spell. It feels a bit... too weak !
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Overall, the mage is stunning. Great job !
in contrary to this though, is you don't get a mage spamming a slow ability every second to get a frozen stack on you, its to incentivise rotating spells adaptatively so you can maybe pump out 1 or 2 frost spells, use a bit of fire or pop out some volley shots then use other spells ( maybe like slows or whatever else a mage will end up getting ) in between combos. otherwise it ends up being WOW's fire or frost mage where you activate 1 spell and get a chain reaction to blast out 6 pyro blasts with no cd, not only does that go with everyone's hatred of Turret mages but its just unfun to fight as a melee player even with gap closes.
Lightning in real life is attracted to earth, which is why we run lightning wires under the ground calling the earth wires, they essentially act like magnets to the earth, that's why it sticks, in fact it not following the earth is more odd than the later.