issues with freeholds

for the most part the freehold system looks okay, however i strongly think that having a system that only 5-10% of people can access is a massive mistake, fair enough if they are not for everyone, but that number needs to be atleast 35-45% of players, especially as these have been sold in the in game shop for the past 5 years, there are aspects about aoc that i love, the risk and reward etc but things like this that will be completely controlled by the 1-5% of players are just a huge mistake and a massive design flaw in this age of gaming, this is coming from someone that works from home and will have a massive amount of time to play and will most likely obtain a freehold pretty easily, i still think this is a terrible mechanic, and as this game is taking an extremley long time to release ( wich if it releases as the game we all want is okay ) there is no excuse for mechanics like this to make it into the final product, some people will disagree with this but this type of mechanic in my opinion is more toxic than griefing, and as every server progresses we will see the same issues, the top 5% of players and their alts ( other accounts ) will own 90% of the freeholds, just my opinion but please take a look at your design and atleast up the number of available land spots

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Songcaller

They changed the size of the plots to 3x the size without consultation. This shrank the potential number by 3. I feel the change will not be reverted despite the backlash right now. The supporters are too happy with the change in size.

mcstackerson

What percent of people who play an MMO actually want to manage a freehold?

I get the fear but also think people need to consider that not everyone will want a freehold and even if you can't get one for yourself, you could access its features by working with others.

Not saying there isn't a chance of issues but I also think people should see what the availability actually feels like before fear-mongering about being unable to get one.

Mag7spy

mcstackerson wrote: »

What percent of people who play an MMO actually want to manage a freehold?

I get the fear but also think people need to consider that not everyone will want a freehold and even if you can't get one for yourself, you could access its features by working with others.

Not saying there isn't a chance of issues but I also think people should see what the availability actually feels like before fear-mongering about being unable to get one.

Its the thing where u hear not everyone gets one and suddenly people are like they want it now.

Which in a way is good since the value of it is meaning something now. Normally i don't care about that stuff, but I'm trying to be a lord that owns land xD

Songcaller

It's not about the land per say, its about ensuring the guild has processors capable of processing the highest grade materials.

Chicago

mcstackerson wrote: »

What percent of people who play an MMO actually want to manage a freehold?

I get the fear but also think people need to consider that not everyone will want a freehold and even if you can't get one for yourself, you could access its features by working with others.

Not saying there isn't a chance of issues but I also think people should see what the availability actually feels like before fear-mongering about being unable to get one.

i agree mate that not everyone will want one, but given enough time, when everything is done in the game, that will change, freeholds are a huge part of the game, and progression system so i can guarantee although not everyone will want one, a vast majority will, where as i agree not everyone should have one i also think that limiting it to 5% of players is a huge mistake, this will also cause problems with the big guilds controlling what nodes fall and rise, and i can guarantee nodes will be getting attacked just so the average players loses their freeholds to just be rebought by the same guild that is destroying them, its definitley something that needs to be tested in A2, there will also be alot of guilds '' testing'' A2 but using it as a way to optimize their route to level 50, so when the game launches these guilds will hit lvl 50 within a week and as you cant even purchase freeholds till level 50, 99% of the land will be bought before the average player can even look at making a purchase, dont get me wrong i agree there should be things that not everyone can obtain, but this is bad game design and needs to be looked at, even if its just tweeked a little bit

Mag7spy

Sounds like you will have to raid some nodes if you don't have one. That would be my number one prio to save money off buying it on the market.

mcstackerson

Chicago wrote: »

mcstackerson wrote: »

What percent of people who play an MMO actually want to manage a freehold?

I get the fear but also think people need to consider that not everyone will want a freehold and even if you can't get one for yourself, you could access its features by working with others.

Not saying there isn't a chance of issues but I also think people should see what the availability actually feels like before fear-mongering about being unable to get one.

i agree mate that not everyone will want one, but given enough time, when everything is done in the game, that will change, freeholds are a huge part of the game, and progression system so i can guarantee although not everyone will want one, a vast majority will, where as i agree not everyone should have one i also think that limiting it to 5% of players is a huge mistake, this will also cause problems with the big guilds controlling what nodes fall and rise, and i can guarantee nodes will be getting attacked just so the average players loses their freeholds to just be rebought by the same guild that is destroying them, its definitley something that needs to be tested in A2, there will also be alot of guilds '' testing'' A2 but using it as a way to optimize their route to level 50, so when the game launches these guilds will hit lvl 50 within a week and as you cant even purchase freeholds till level 50, 99% of the land will be bought before the average player can even look at making a purchase, dont get me wrong i agree there should be things that not everyone can obtain, but this is bad game design and needs to be looked at, even if its just tweeked a little bit

I'd say they look required at the game's highest level, but I'm not convinced it's a huge part for everyone. I hope you can make them a large part of your game but don't think it's something everyone should have to do.

The fear-mongering about guilds is something I disagree with.

How many freeholds do you think a guild needs?

Yes, a guild will want enough freeholds to get access to all the necessary processing equipment but how many will that require? With their increased size, do you even need more than one? After they hit that requirement, you have a guild of players that don't need a personal freehold since the guild will be able to provide all the services they unlock.

Yes, selling freeholds might be a way some guilds decide to make money but sieging a node isn't cheap and profit isn't guaranteed. The cost to do so is comparable to the cost to develop the node itself, so I'm skeptical about how often guilds are going to be sieging nodes to get freeholds.

Chicago

mcstackerson wrote: »

Chicago wrote: »

mcstackerson wrote: »

What percent of people who play an MMO actually want to manage a freehold?

I get the fear but also think people need to consider that not everyone will want a freehold and even if you can't get one for yourself, you could access its features by working with others.

Not saying there isn't a chance of issues but I also think people should see what the availability actually feels like before fear-mongering about being unable to get one.

i agree mate that not everyone will want one, but given enough time, when everything is done in the game, that will change, freeholds are a huge part of the game, and progression system so i can guarantee although not everyone will want one, a vast majority will, where as i agree not everyone should have one i also think that limiting it to 5% of players is a huge mistake, this will also cause problems with the big guilds controlling what nodes fall and rise, and i can guarantee nodes will be getting attacked just so the average players loses their freeholds to just be rebought by the same guild that is destroying them, its definitley something that needs to be tested in A2, there will also be alot of guilds '' testing'' A2 but using it as a way to optimize their route to level 50, so when the game launches these guilds will hit lvl 50 within a week and as you cant even purchase freeholds till level 50, 99% of the land will be bought before the average player can even look at making a purchase, dont get me wrong i agree there should be things that not everyone can obtain, but this is bad game design and needs to be looked at, even if its just tweeked a little bit

I'd say they look required at the game's highest level, but I'm not convinced it's a huge part for everyone. I hope you can make them a large part of your game but don't think it's something everyone should have to do.

The fear-mongering about guilds is something I disagree with.

How many freeholds do you think a guild needs?

Yes, a guild will want enough freeholds to get access to all the necessary processing equipment but how many will that require? With their increased size, do you even need more than one? After they hit that requirement, you have a guild of players that don't need a personal freehold since the guild will be able to provide all the services they unlock.

Yes, selling freeholds might be a way some guilds decide to make money but sieging a node isn't cheap and profit isn't guaranteed. The cost to do so is comparable to the cost to develop the node itself, so I'm skeptical about how often guilds are going to be sieging nodes to get freeholds.

you are right but as we play in an age where the majority of people min max every single thing possible i would guess that even if they dont technically need more, most people in these guilds are going to want one, and im honestly of the belief that sieging nodes will almost never happen, its much more beneficial for the two or three top guilds on the server to have an alliance between themselves that almost prevents node wars, i really hope that im wrong but i wouldnt doubt that this is the path we go down

Diamaht

Im wondering where the 5 to 10 percent numbers come from.

Steven has stated just recently that everyone can get one. Is that meaning there is enough or is that simply implying opportunity?

The gameplay and design look fantastic, the best ive seen in any MMO. However I'm definitely one of the supporters who thinks they need to be accessible.

If doesn't have to be 100 percent, but 5 is not in any way acceptable.

Chocometeor

I played an MMo with a Housing System and it was so hard to get a House that you couldnt get one at all maybe if you were extremely lucky or if you had extremely much time for bidding and farming.

And it was just sad at some point because MANY features are locked within Systems like this.
So the same thing with Freeholds in Ashes now. Freeholds will be awesome thats for sure - for those lucky few players. but its all locked for only such a small amout of Players. they should've made freeholds instanced so this HUGE System could be atleast used by ''some'' more players.

Chicago

Diamaht wrote: »

Im wondering where the 5 to 10 percent numbers come from.

Steven has stated just recently that everyone can get one. Is that meaning there is enough or is that simply implying opportunity?

The gameplay and design look fantastic, the best ive seen in any MMO. However I'm definitely one of the supporters who thinks they need to be accessible.

If doesn't have to be 100 percent, but 5 is not in any way acceptable.

dont quote me on this but im pretty sure steven wants each server to host up to 50,000 players? i know at launch its 10-15000 players, it was stated that freeholds would be in the low thousands so maybe 2-4,000? then there will also be people with duel accounts multi boxing that own more than one freehold, obviously that is not the norm but it will happen, so i would say between 5-10% of players will actually aquire them, and of that 5-10% a solid 99% will probably be the sweatys that have 12 hours a day to play, and fair enough if they put in the work they should be rewarded but its not really a good design when its only catered to these types of people

further more, intrepid have sold these items with people under the impression they would be able to aquire a free hold, we always knew that not everyone could have one but the question has been repeatedly asked over the past 5 years to clarify what i was that we were buying, and then for intrepid to go and make these changes without consulting the community first is just bad business, personally i did not buy any freehold skins as i thought they were a bit stupid but im sure some people did and probably feel a bit hard done by

Chicago

Chocometeor wrote: »

I played an MMo with a Housing System and it was so hard to get a House that you couldnt get one at all maybe if you were extremely lucky or if you had extremely much time for bidding and farming.

And it was just sad at some point because MANY features are locked within Systems like this.
So the same thing with Freeholds in Ashes now. Freeholds will be awesome thats for sure - for those lucky few players. but its all locked for only such a small amout of Players. they should've made freeholds instanced so this HUGE System could be atleast used by ''some'' more players.

i 100% agree, i think everything in game should be accessible to a point, or atleast put the mechanics a freehold offers as a node mechanic and dont lock it behind a freehold

ClintHardwood

The problem with freeholds being limited is that they are the only known and confirmed way to train farming and husbandry. These parts of the game are highly appealing to a large portion of the playerbase.

Fantmx

Neurath wrote: »

They changed the size of the plots to 3x the size without consultation. This shrank the potential number by 3. I feel the change will not be reverted despite the backlash right now. The supporters are too happy with the change in size.

I'm pretty sure in the past they said the freehold size would increase as the node increased. So this probably was always planned but they decided to skip the process and instead have permiting increase as nodes increase.

My guess.

Ludullu

ClintHardwood wrote: »

The problem with freeholds being limited is that they are the only known and confirmed way to train farming and husbandry. These parts of the game are highly appealing to a large portion of the playerbase.

@ClintHardwood

Fantmx

I'm guessing the inclusion of "large degree" has something to do with farming and animal husbandry.

ClintHardwood

NiKr wrote: »

ClintHardwood wrote: »

The problem with freeholds being limited is that they are the only known and confirmed way to train farming and husbandry. These parts of the game are highly appealing to a large portion of the playerbase.

@ClintHardwood

Did you even read what I wrote? How is farming and husbandry processing?

Chicago

ClintHardwood wrote: »

NiKr wrote: »

ClintHardwood wrote: »

The problem with freeholds being limited is that they are the only known and confirmed way to train farming and husbandry. These parts of the game are highly appealing to a large portion of the playerbase.

@ClintHardwood

Did you even read what I wrote? How is farming and husbandry processing?

Im pretty sure AH was confirmed to be processing?

Ludullu

ClintHardwood wrote: »

Did you even read what I wrote? How is farming and husbandry processing?

At this point I need to make the "don't make me tap the sign" meme. Jfc people, there is a god damn wiki on this game.

Please tell me, what are those arrows pointing at?

Fantmx

I think the main point is he said to a large degree which means something can't be. Most reasonable answer as to what won't be is animal husbandry. Then maybe farming.

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