New Information Regarding the Freehold Bidding System

Regarding the Freehold article that just dropped, there were some key points that I previously did not understand. I suspect others may have also not understood these points.

1. On completing the Lord's Quest, you receive your Freehold Deed.
2. A limited number of Freehold Deeds are available.
3. You need a Freehold Deed to bid on an Estate.

This would seem to imply that a limited number of people can do the Lord's Quest. I did not previously understand this key point. So you're not bidding against everyone for freeholds, but rather, only against other players who completed the Lord's Quest, which is limited.

I think the key then becomes, how is access to the Lord's Quest managed? Perhaps it is First Come, First Served (FCFS), or some other system? This may alleviate a lot of concerns that guilds or RMT will dominate freeholds. You don't need to outbid the big bad guild that can win every FH auction, or the RMTs that have unlimited gold. You just need to outbid the other players who have completed the quest, and access to the quest may be managed in such a way as to throttle the guilds and RMTs. We just don't know at this point.

Also, if you are only bidding against other players who have completed the Lord's Quest, and the number of Freehold Deeds is limited equally to the number of available freeholds (A KEY POINT), then every bidder will be getting a freehold. So you're not bidding against other bidders with the possibility of losing a chance at a freehold altogether, but rather, YOU ARE MERELY BIDDING FOR THE BEST LOCATION!

Maybe I'm a noob and totally missed this before, but for me, this is new info. I think it totally addresses the majority of concerns raised by the community.

Here's the article:
https://ashesofcreation.com/news/2023-07-14-exploring-the-boundless-opportunities-of-freeholds

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Comments

ClintHardwood

mcnasty wrote: »

Also, if you are only bidding against other players who have completed the Lord's Quest, and the number of Freehold Deeds is limited equally to the number of available freeholds (A KEY POINT), then every bidder will be getting a freehold. So you're not bidding against other bidders with the possibility of losing a chance at a freehold altogether, but rather, YOU ARE MERELY BIDDING FOR THE BEST LOCATION!

If there's a limited amount of deeds that can exist, the only way this system works is if people sell freehold deeds and by extension the estate their freehold currently occupies. I really hope that's not the case, but if it is, me and my 2 alts will be happy to rush deeds while the casuals toil away at their jobs. There's no risk of permanently losing a freehold ever (except maybe server merges) if you always keep the deed.

Edit: After reading clarifying comments from Steven on a reddit post, I've realized that the comment I've written above is misguided.

Rocsek

Pretty sure that's worded badly. I'm thinking anyone can start and complete the quest to receive a bound deed, but will have to wait for one to come to auction. Then everyone that has a deed can bid for the FH plot during that auction.

I could very well be wrong in this assumption. Maybe Steven will clarify?

Electronn

rocsek wrote: »

Pretty sure that's worded badly. I'm thinking anyone can start and complete the quest to receive a bound deed, but will have to wait for one to come to auction. Then everyone that has a deed can bid for the FH plot during that auction.

I could very well be wrong in this assumption. Maybe Steven will clarify?

I suppose it's possible the information provided is incorrect, but it would seem odd that these simple facts would have not been heavily scrutinized prior to publishing.

Seems very cut and dry to me:
"Once this quest is complete, you will receive your bound Freehold Deed
... Nodes have a limited number of Freehold Deeds available based on that node’s level. "

Liniker

Question: Do you think that guilds will put their money together and make it hard for a single player to buy a freehold? Im just curious if any systems in place to limit this or if it’s intended. I know this is group based mmo so that would be fine.

I do believe this will be the case for some percentage of the freeholds, but there will be mitigating strategies that we use in the designs of the auction system to ensure viable access to a wider audience of play styles. Regardless, it will be difficult to obtain.

that was my favorite part - glad steven double down and they are not making something stupid like having 50k freeholds available

ClintHardwood

Liniker wrote: »

.

Question: Do you think that guilds will put their money together and make it hard for a single player to buy a freehold? Im just curious if any systems in place to limit this or if it’s intended. I know this is group based mmo so that would be fine.

Yes, and it will happen often. The most in demand freeholds will be near POIs like high level dungeons and near developed nodes. They will instantly be bought by cartels and guilds. The less in demand freeholds will probably be quite cheap by comparison, especially those far from auction houses and markets.

Rocsek

mcnasty wrote: »

rocsek wrote: »

Pretty sure that's worded badly. I'm thinking anyone can start and complete the quest to receive a bound deed, but will have to wait for one to come to auction. Then everyone that has a deed can bid for the FH plot during that auction.

I could very well be wrong in this assumption. Maybe Steven will clarify?

I suppose it's possible the information provided is incorrect, but it would seem odd that these simple facts would have not been heavily scrutinized prior to publishing.

Seems very cut and dry to me:
"Once this quest is complete, you will receive your bound Freehold Deed
... Nodes have a limited number of Freehold Deeds available based on that node’s level. "

Very well could be. There maybe a certain amount and once they are gone the quest giver stops giving the quest until someone wins an auction. I still wouldn't mind a bit of clarification.

BlackBrony

ClintHardwood wrote: »

Liniker wrote: »

.

Question: Do you think that guilds will put their money together and make it hard for a single player to buy a freehold? Im just curious if any systems in place to limit this or if it’s intended. I know this is group based mmo so that would be fine.

Yes, and it will happen often. The most in demand freeholds will be near POIs like high level dungeons and near developed nodes. They will instantly be bought by cartels and guilds. The less in demand freeholds will probably be quite cheap by comparison, especially those far from auction houses and markets.

Which makes the idea of having a freehold... useless. I mean for the fantasy shit it's great, for economic purposes, useles. Moving mats will be expensive, risky and time consuming.

Sathrago

I feel like the current design will cause player to spread out very, very far. What this means to me is that there will be less contest overall for the freeholds due to the time required to commit to a particular one. The amount of commitment alone will ward off most players, leaving it to the dedicated ones to fight over it. Which is the whole design in the first place. Lets be honest, even if everyone "could" build a freehold, most wouldn't. the time commitment, resources, and gold upkeep will surely be a chore, let alone the stress of dealing with sieges that could tear it all up from under you. This threat of forcing you to go and build an entire new node/do the questline again is a steep cost most wouldn't be willing to pay.

The idea that there should be room for everyone to have a freehold just isn't tenable, and would require freehold cost and time commitment to be lowered for you to achieve it, and that just makes it basically meaningless to have.

We also now know for sure that guild members can be granted access to the various activities on freeholds, meaning they are more about group cooperation than anything. Find a good guild with the right processing freeholds on it, or create a family that can compete for a freehold spot. The questline involved with getting the deed alone will make the competition manageable if you are smart about where you choose to compete.

Sathrago

As for a suggestion that I think they are already wanting to do in order to reduce the impact of stacking gold on a single player's bidding, lets go with a Notoriety value.

Basically this could be a bid value modifier that is gained through node tasks. Using this, you could bolster the bid you place through individual merit rather than relying on others. This would most likely be exclusive for freehold bids, and should make it easier for smaller groups of people to compete if they centralize around one hard-working player.

BlackBrony

Freeholds are not for small guilds or players, it's a guild's feature. It might not be called like that, but it is. You need to move mats from node to freehold, what do you need? Protection. Who has protection? Guilds. Or people with money. Who has money? Guilds.
Basically the game will become an oligopoly where feuds happen, betrayal and empires will fall and rise (if we' re lucky), but the power will always be concentrated in a few hands.
People are thinking that because a player owns a freehold it's something they achieved. No, it's a guild thing.

Rocsek

Sathrago wrote: »

We also now know for sure that guild members can be granted access to the various activities on freeholds, meaning they are more about group cooperation than anything. Find a good guild with the right processing freeholds on it, or create a family that can compete for a freehold spot. The questline involved with getting the deed alone will make the competition manageable if you are smart about where you choose to compete.

So not sure guilds will have permissions to use the processing. That looks like processing will still be locked behind the Family system. At least how I read that. *For now depending on testing* as always.

Sathrago

rocsek wrote: »

Sathrago wrote: »

We also now know for sure that guild members can be granted access to the various activities on freeholds, meaning they are more about group cooperation than anything. Find a good guild with the right processing freeholds on it, or create a family that can compete for a freehold spot. The questline involved with getting the deed alone will make the competition manageable if you are smart about where you choose to compete.

So not sure guilds will have permissions to use the processing. That looks like processing will still be locked behind the Family system. At least how I read that. *For now depending on testing* as always.

I feel like even with the new info people aren't reading it and still making claims. Here's the full link for those people. https://ashesofcreation.com/news/2023-07-14-exploring-the-boundless-opportunities-of-freeholds

Rocsek

Steven sometimes has a habit of clarifying things after the fact. So I'm just going by what Steven posted in Discord shortly after that went live. I could be reading his statement wrong, but that's why I posted what he said for other to read that don't look at Discord. That screen shot I posted above was roughly an hour after the info drop went live.

Sathrago

rocsek wrote: »

I'm just going by what Steven posted in Discord shortly after that went live. I could be reading his statement wrong, but that's why I posted what he said for other to read that don't look at Discord. That screen shot I posted above was roughly an hour after the info drop went live.

what he's saying there is the reasoning for why they are allowing guild members perms, hes not being vague about whether or not it will exist. "The idea behind guild permissions for freeholds" is the key line here. The rest is an explanation on why and that this is still, like everything else, subject to change.

Rocsek

Sathrago wrote: »

rocsek wrote: »

I'm just going by what Steven posted in Discord shortly after that went live. I could be reading his statement wrong, but that's why I posted what he said for other to read that don't look at Discord. That screen shot I posted above was roughly an hour after the info drop went live.

what he's saying there is the reasoning for why they are allowing guild members perms, hes not being vague about whether or not it will exist. "The idea behind guild permissions for freeholds" is the key line here. The rest is an explanation on why and that this is still, like everything else, subject to change.

He also states in the same place "If we end up allowing guild permissions for freeholds it will likely only apply to the other members within the guilds micro structure" Which reads to me If we allow it, it's only going to be for a select few guild members within a certain guild system."

Something else we could use a bit of clarification on IMO

Sathrago

rocsek wrote: »

Sathrago wrote: »

rocsek wrote: »

I'm just going by what Steven posted in Discord shortly after that went live. I could be reading his statement wrong, but that's why I posted what he said for other to read that don't look at Discord. That screen shot I posted above was roughly an hour after the info drop went live.

what he's saying there is the reasoning for why they are allowing guild members perms, hes not being vague about whether or not it will exist. "The idea behind guild permissions for freeholds" is the key line here. The rest is an explanation on why and that this is still, like everything else, subject to change.

He also states in the same place "If we end up allowing guild permissions for freeholds it will likely only apply to the other members within the guilds micro structure" Which reads to me If we allow it, it's only going to be for a select few guild members within a certain guild system."

Something else we could use a bit of clarification on IMO

So you think the discord message that you are doing your hardest to interpret this one way is more important than the clear as day manifest that explicitly expresses that guild members will have access to crafting/processing if given permission?

Rocsek

I'm saying what I posted has weight based on who said it. And I won't be the only person who thinks that. You seem to think I care if I'm right. I don't. I just see two potentially conflicting statements and would like clarification.

However, I will be the first to come back here and say I wasn't right if it's clarified and I'm wrong. Can/will you say the same?

BlackBrony

So wait. Guild helps you get freehold, guild doesn't have access to freehold?

Sathrago

rocsek wrote: »

I'm saying what I posted has weight based on who said it. And I won't be the only person who thinks that. You seem to think I care if I'm right. I don't. I just see two potentially conflicting statements and would like clarification.

However, I will be the first to come back here and say I wasn't right if it's clarified and I'm wrong. Can/will you say the same?

I don't think I will end up wrong because one is a discord post and another is an official statement from the company with a very clear statement on how this works.

If they make a new statement contradicting the manifesto then I am still not wrong, as they would be changing their stance, not clarifying what was said. And It is clear in their statement that this is subject to change.

BlackBrony

Sathrago wrote: »

rocsek wrote: »

I'm saying what I posted has weight based on who said it. And I won't be the only person who thinks that. You seem to think I care if I'm right. I don't. I just see two potentially conflicting statements and would like clarification.

However, I will be the first to come back here and say I wasn't right if it's clarified and I'm wrong. Can/will you say the same?

I don't think I will end up wrong because one is a discord post and another is an official statement from the company with a very clear statement on how this works.

If they make a new statement contradicting the manifesto then I am still not wrong, as they would be changing their stance, not clarifying what was said. And It is clear in their statement that this is subject to change.

I am never wrong, no matter what!

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