morphwastaken wrote: » It's counter-intuitive, but makes perfect sense in context of AoC. Most rewarding world bosses can be mechanically most simple, since large portion of the challenge will come from other players. Those bosses just need to feel epic with huge AOEs. It also works the other way. Most complex bosses can be given the least reward. This will make them least contested - perfect for those who primarily seek a great PvE experience. This provides a nice content gradient form primarily PvE to primarily PvP, while being PvX all the way through. Makes sense thematically as well - if there is 200 players around a huge dragon in the field - it's just going to breath fire at 50 of them, not really do some intricate mechanic. While some dungeon dwelling mystery monster can be all kinds of unexpected and complex. Food for thought.
Depraved wrote: » why would the pvers kill the hard boss with no rewards? they could just kill bosses with rewards. you know, pvpers pvp for fun, no reward needed. pvers dont pve for fun, they need a reward or they are always complaining that doing this is a waste of time blah blah blah etc.
Taerrik wrote: » Depraved wrote: » why would the pvers kill the hard boss with no rewards? they could just kill bosses with rewards. you know, pvpers pvp for fun, no reward needed. pvers dont pve for fun, they need a reward or they are always complaining that doing this is a waste of time blah blah blah etc. I could point you at FF14 ultimate difficulty, which gives only a title and a glamour (basically a transmog if you dont know what glam is), and you need best in slot gear already to even attempt to challenge it. And a nice chunk of the pve playerbase do it anyway, despite it not giving better gear. -casuals- are the ones that feel like they need a reward for doing something to be worthwhile, and this is true whether the content is pve or pvp related. As for why put a boss that -no one wants- Well, if anything from the dozens of forum topics on related subjects should tell us. There is a whole spectrum of players, and there is no one size fits all solution, this is why games have all sorts of different bosses in them. Really easy ones with low rewards. Moderately challenging ones where the bulk of rewards go since almost everyone will participate in this content. Mega challenging ones that only a small portion of players spend their time. And it should be no surprise that developers spend the majority of their time and energy in the middle ground, and only occasionally touch the extreme ends of the spectrum of interests. I just hope that the game isnt brain numbingly simple in the pve encounters "just because people are scared of getting ganked". I get people are scared of pvp, but its part of the game and it adds excitement.
Azherae wrote: » I'm fine with it. If they wanna do a little better they can focus it more too like certain other games. Content A rewards make you better at things similar to Content A, so there's a progression. Content B is the same. Give 'PvP-heavy' rewards for fighting around bosses, and 'PvE-heavy' rewards for fighting complex deep dungeon or semi-instanced stuff. Both gear types are still useful in either content type, but 'Elemental Defense' is more likely to be a strongly desired thing for PvE focuses than for PvP ones, and so on. So 'rewarding' is 'relative to whatever you enjoy that brought you to the point of engaging with the content to begin with'.
Depraved wrote: » why would the pvers kill the hard boss with no rewards
Depraved wrote: » they could just kill bosses with rewards
Depraved wrote: » pvpers pvp for fun, no reward needed. pvers dont pve for fun, they need a reward or they are always complaining that doing this is a waste of time blah blah blah etc.
Depraved wrote: » also, it takes away from the game. why put a boss that no one wants when you could put a boss that everyone wants, and make it so the audience who isnt the target audience does it.
Depraved wrote: » also, that wont attract pvers either since they will still have to endure months of pvp anyways.
morphwastaken wrote: » Depraved wrote: » why would the pvers kill the hard boss with no rewards Because they find PvE fun? It's also base difficulty, open world boss will be much harder to actually get the loot from due to PvP. Depraved wrote: » they could just kill bosses with rewards Then PvP focused players will fight them. Depraved wrote: » pvpers pvp for fun, no reward needed. pvers dont pve for fun, they need a reward or they are always complaining that doing this is a waste of time blah blah blah etc. Neither is true, especially in PvX game. This is how foolish PvPers describe PvEers and vice versa. Both do it for fun and reward, at varying degree, based on a situation. Depraved wrote: » also, it takes away from the game. why put a boss that no one wants when you could put a boss that everyone wants, and make it so the audience who isnt the target audience does it. All bosses would be desired, depending on what player is looking for. Idk if you did not read, but each audience would get what they want. PvPers less PvE, and PvEers less PvP. Depraved wrote: » also, that wont attract pvers either since they will still have to endure months of pvp anyways. This does not need a level requirement.
NiKr wrote: » I want them to do better Make the real pvx game, where abilities account for the possibility of pvp involvement in pve, so you can manipulate bosses/mobs (to a point) in such a way where the newcomers would have a harder way of messing up your farm. Steven kiiiinda addressed this in the latest interview, but it was still just usual "well, your tank could run towards the enemies and any boss aoe would hit them as well". I want more and better mechanics than that.
Depraved wrote: » read my post
Azherae wrote: » Content A rewards make you better at things similar to Content A, so there's a progression. Content B is the same. Give 'PvP-heavy' rewards for fighting around bosses, and 'PvE-heavy' rewards for fighting complex deep dungeon or semi-instanced stuff. Both gear types are still useful in either content type, but 'Elemental Defense' is more likely to be a strongly desired thing for PvE focuses than for PvP ones, and so on. So 'rewarding' is 'relative to whatever you enjoy that brought you to the point of engaging with the content to begin with'.
morphwastaken wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Content A rewards make you better at things similar to Content A, so there's a progression. Content B is the same. Give 'PvP-heavy' rewards for fighting around bosses, and 'PvE-heavy' rewards for fighting complex deep dungeon or semi-instanced stuff. Both gear types are still useful in either content type, but 'Elemental Defense' is more likely to be a strongly desired thing for PvE focuses than for PvP ones, and so on. So 'rewarding' is 'relative to whatever you enjoy that brought you to the point of engaging with the content to begin with'. I don't think that making the gap between PvP and PvE bigger by introducing content-specific gear would be a good idea in PvX game.
Depraved wrote: » do you think they will endure months and months and months of getting trashed in pvp just so they can get bis gear to do a boss? the suggestion is pointless. if they have to pvp to get the gear to do the boss, they wont play. so the solution (to a problem that doesnt exist) would be to add a complete progression path from level 1 to level 50 with bis gear that avoids pvp, avoids competing for resources, etc. and this is not this type of game. so if you add that, it takes away from the game.
Depraved wrote: » and you would be splitting content and gear, so no
Depraved wrote: » it still gives a unique reward. op said a boss that gives little reward. to my understanding, he meant a reward of little to no value, not something unique like a title and a transmog..
Azherae wrote: » I really hoped this wasn't going to be the way that post got interpreted, but I didn't want to add a bunch of disclaimers and make the post long. This is not what I meant. Because of the way Ashes is designed, there are going to be stats that are more meaningful in most PvE than they are in most PvP and I feel like the devs will know what those stats are. I'm suggesting that they skew the rewards accordingly to create a nice spectrum of player experiences, in the way that the games I am used to, do it.
morphwastaken wrote: » Azherae wrote: » I really hoped this wasn't going to be the way that post got interpreted, but I didn't want to add a bunch of disclaimers and make the post long. This is not what I meant. Because of the way Ashes is designed, there are going to be stats that are more meaningful in most PvE than they are in most PvP and I feel like the devs will know what those stats are. I'm suggesting that they skew the rewards accordingly to create a nice spectrum of player experiences, in the way that the games I am used to, do it. Right, why? It's same idea, just not as extreme. Would it not make those who primarily PvE slightly weaker in PvP, and vice versa?
Azherae wrote: » Hm, I feel I've probably contributed what little I can to this thread. It's probably just personal preference, never mind, you're right, let's just give the PvE players less rewards altogether instead.
morphwastaken wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Hm, I feel I've probably contributed what little I can to this thread. It's probably just personal preference, never mind, you're right, let's just give the PvE players less rewards altogether instead. But you did not contribute anything of value, just like the other thread. The only thing you suggested - you can't even explain yourself what it would achieve. You simply can't answer my previous post without making your suggestion seem silly, can you?
morphwastaken wrote: » Right, why? It's same idea, just not as extreme. Would it not make those who primarily PvE slightly weaker in PvP, and vice versa?
