Bags & Interaction Speed

Hey,

Something in one of the latest podcasts had me curious and a little worried, but not for the same reasons much of the discussion about it was centred around.

It was mentioned by Steven as an example that certain bags will have certain interaction speeds perhaps at the cost of inventory space/size, allowing you to choose whether you want more space or a quicker loot speed that might buy you some time and be more likely to let you loot a body before the player can get back to it.

... This has a me a little confused. I was under the impression that it would be impossible to run back to your body and re-engage in PvP/loot your own body, because the world is so big and there's no fast travel, and that respawning would be somewhat random and far. By the time you get there whoever killed you would absolutely have looted your body and be long gone, and you also won't be able to call on your discord group to convene there because travel time and distance is so great that unless they happen to already be nearby there's just no way they're getting there in time.

Has something changed? Will people just be respawning and running back in an endless cycle of PvP, or have I misunderstood? Can anyone clear this up for me?

What did he mean, "Giving you time to reach it and take back your belongings" because it doesn't make sense in the context of what is realistically possible in the game, as I understood it.

Thanks.

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Ludullu

Random respawn only happens for Red deaths. Other players will respawn at the nearest point. We don't currently know where those points will be or how close/far they'll be from potential points of interest for players.

In theory, if you die 10 seconds away from a respawn point - you'll be able to run back super fast. I still highly doubt that Ashes will be like Tarkov where it takes players a good minute to go through their victim's inventory, but maybe Steven's wording is a hint at exactly that.

If that is the case, I'm not quite sure how I feel about it. On one hand it's fine, because it adds more time to the BH's timer of "you gotta catch the PKer", but on the other side this means that cleaning a field of dead players after a huge battle could take fucking hours

This is one of the reasons I'm still on the fence about the whole "players always drop something on death" thing, but this can only be tried and felt during testing, so I can't really make my mind either way before that.

Caww

I would trade bag space for the ability to lock several items from the loot list and at-least prevent the most valuable stuff from loss.

Depraved

Caww wrote: »

I would trade bag space for the ability to lock several items from the loot list and at-least prevent the most valuable stuff from loss.

that defeats the purpose of the system...

Depraved

well if you die from a mob, and no one picks up the loot, you could go back and pick it up

also it could be that certain bags give some sort of protection to items dropped form that bag, so they will take longer to disappear or people wont be able to loot them right away.

Vaknar

NiKr wrote: »

Random respawn only happens for Red deaths. Other players will respawn at the nearest point. We don't currently know where those points will be or how close/far they'll be from potential points of interest for players.

In theory, if you die 10 seconds away from a respawn point - you'll be able to run back super fast. I still highly doubt that Ashes will be like Tarkov where it takes players a good minute to go through their victim's inventory, but maybe Steven's wording is a hint at exactly that.

If that is the case, I'm not quite sure how I feel about it. On one hand it's fine, because it adds more time to the BH's timer of "you gotta catch the PKer", but on the other side this means that cleaning a field of dead players after a huge battle could take fucking hours This is one of the reasons I'm still on the fence about the whole "players always drop something on death" thing, but this can only be tried and felt during testing, so I can't really make my mind either way before that.

This is both a helpful comment and an interesting thought starter! In a scenario in which there is a field of bodies to loot, I wonder if that would also mean more players who want to loot them? 😈

Vaknar

Depraved wrote: »

well if you die from a mob, and no one picks up the loot, you could go back and pick it up

also it could be that certain bags give some sort of protection to items dropped form that bag, so they will take longer to disappear or people wont be able to loot them right away.

Interesting to think of different ways the system could be built upon or mitigated. Would you want things like this to be something you could achieve? Or is this more of a blanket suggestion for the system?

Depraved

Vaknar wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

well if you die from a mob, and no one picks up the loot, you could go back and pick it up

also it could be that certain bags give some sort of protection to items dropped form that bag, so they will take longer to disappear or people wont be able to loot them right away.

Interesting to think of different ways the system could be built upon or mitigated. Would you want things like this to be something you could achieve? Or is this more of a blanket suggestion for the system?

no. i was explaining the op how it might work, just one possibility. if it was up to me, you drop something on death and it can be picked up right away by anyone. but i can see how some people would like bags like that.

Veeshan

I would assume on death item can be looted with no delay but some bags might add a timer before the corpse can be opened

Raven016

HazardNumberSeven wrote: »

... By the time you get there whoever killed you would absolutely have looted your body and be long gone, and you also won't be able to call on your discord group to convene there because travel time and distance is so great that unless they happen to already be nearby there's just no way they're getting there in time.

What did he mean, "Giving you time to reach it and take back your belongings" because it doesn't make sense in the context of what is realistically possible in the game, as I understood it.

For a 1 vs 1 case without mule, if you die, it will be better to go to the nearest storage to store your remaining resources rather than going back to the place you was killed and die again. Because when you die, you drop just a part of the resources you had in inventory.

If you was in a team, your team mates might still be in a fight and need help. The opponent team might not have time to stop and loot your ashes as they are in the fight too.

But most likely you had a mule and the content was well optimized. The opponent may or may not have a mule with empty storage. So he may have to spend time to organize and decide what he takes and what he leaves behind.

The world is big but running with a mount from the center of a node to the center of another takes 3.5 minutes (210 sec). Half a distance would be 105 sec.
After the fight your opponent remains flagged 90 seconds...
If there are re-spawn points between nodes, then you might have good chances to go back to the place you died before the timer elapses.

I think this mechanic is there to add risk and make players think well before they flag themselves in easy to reach places.
If you died deeper in a dungeon killed by an NPC you might encounter your opponent on his way out and he might already be green.
What will you do?

Raven016

NiKr wrote: »

... but on the other side this means that cleaning a field of dead players after a huge battle could take fucking hours

Huge battle between players loaded with resources?
How this can happen? Huge number of gatherers ambushed?
Caravans leave some resources behind but some are deleted by the game, to ensure resource sink.

Ludullu

Raven016 wrote: »

Huge battle between players loaded with resources?
How this can happen? Huge number of gatherers ambushed?

Alchemy and cooking are both processing, so I'd imagine their results (food and potions) will be processed goods that drop on death. Plus any potential certificates (cause we don't know how they're distributed in a party). Plus any potential mats (unless every group has their "pick-upper", but then you gotta find them in a see of bodies).

All of that is the spoils of the battle so I'd assume people would want to grab it. And in a huge top lvl battle people would have top lvl pots/food on them and some of them would have top lvl mats (especially in dungeons). So either way you'd want to go through all the bodies to make sure you haven't missed a thing. And this will take time even if you have several people going through them (well, in the context of it taking a damn minute to loot a body).

Hell, I could see a strat of "delayed bags", if they are a thing. Even if it's kinda inconvenient to have them during the farm itself, it would be beneficial to have these kinds of bags on you if you want to make the looting process way harder for your enemy.

Raven016

NiKr wrote: »

Raven016 wrote: »

Huge battle between players loaded with resources?
How this can happen? Huge number of gatherers ambushed?

Alchemy and cooking are both processing, so I'd imagine their results (food and potions) will be processed goods that drop on death. Plus any potential certificates (cause we don't know how they're distributed in a party). Plus any potential mats (unless every group has their "pick-upper", but then you gotta find them in a see of bodies).

All of that is the spoils of the battle so I'd assume people would want to grab it. And in a huge top lvl battle people would have top lvl pots/food on them and some of them would have top lvl mats (especially in dungeons). So either way you'd want to go through all the bodies to make sure you haven't missed a thing. And this will take time even if you have several people going through them (well, in the context of it taking a damn minute to loot a body).

Hell, I could see a strat of "delayed bags", if they are a thing. Even if it's kinda inconvenient to have them during the farm itself, it would be beneficial to have these kinds of bags on you if you want to make the looting process way harder for your enemy.

Potions will not drop on death. I remember Steven said that in a Q&A. Probably food will have the same property.
Certificates come from farming mobs so it is normal to drop but why would you have them in inventory if you go into a huge battle? Normally you bring them back to the node and you insert them into the caravan network to increase their value.
By huge, I imagine some conflict where guilds mobilize their members. Or a node war. If players are ambushed while farming, it is hard to be huge. Later reinforcements should come without certificates and mats to help.

But my assumption is that the bags made for fast loot have something to do with the tetris like mini game of organizing the space. The one who intends to loot will sacrifice space and grab fast what he can, when he equips those kind of bags.
If it is really with timers and the bags decided by the gatherer, then the gatherer is probably confident in his PvP skills or that reinforcement can come fast.
Maybe a huge battle around gatherers could happen in relationship with the land management feature?

So there can be a degree of economic warfare by sending players out into zones where you want to mitigate collection of resources. You send your players out there to take all those resources and then that diminishes the land management score of that particular zone.[39] – Steven Sharif

If corruption allows huge battles then maybe corruption is not important in the game.

Ludullu

Raven016 wrote: »

Potions will not drop on death. I remember Steven said that in a Q&A. Probably food will have the same property.

You right, I shoulda doublechecked that.
Items made for final consumption are not dropped, such as consumable items created by the Cooking and Alchemy professions.[25]

Raven016 wrote: »

Certificates come from farming mobs so it is normal to drop but why would you have them in inventory if you go into a huge battle?

Huge battles can happen even w/o a plan. A guild might be "controlling" a dungeon for a few hours, farming a ton of stuff. Then their enemy guild gathers up players and goes to attack them and manages to wipe them out. That would be a ton of mats and certificates to collect and would also involve dozens and dozens of people.

Raven016 wrote: »

If corruption allows huge battles then maybe corruption is not important in the game.

As you pointed out yourself, there's node wars and also guild wars. Those will be the main sources of the biggest fights in the game and they have nothing to do with corruption.

Raven016

NiKr wrote: »

Raven016 wrote: »

Certificates come from farming mobs so it is normal to drop but why would you have them in inventory if you go into a huge battle?

Huge battles can happen even w/o a plan. A guild might be "controlling" a dungeon for a few hours, farming a ton of stuff. Then their enemy guild gathers up players and goes to attack them and manages to wipe them out. That would be a ton of mats and certificates to collect and would also involve dozens and dozens of people.

Raven016 wrote: »

If corruption allows huge battles then maybe corruption is not important in the game.

As you pointed out yourself, there's node wars and also guild wars. Those will be the main sources of the biggest fights in the game and they have nothing to do with corruption.

That can indeed happen.
I think they should use guildless low level alts to do transports to nodes, to prevent mules in the dungeon to become full with 2-3 hours worth of work.
But 2-3 hours is not a big loss for guilds who do such farming often.
Reputation might be a bigger loss.

Raven016

will this be the end game loop?

Ludullu

Raven016 wrote: »

I think they should use guildless low level alts to do transports to nodes, to prevent mules in the dungeon to become full with 2-3 hours worth of work.

This can definitely be one of the strats to counter potential attacks. And I'm sure people will do this if they notice that they tend to lose a bit too many mats in fights. Though, as you say, at that point it's simply a loss of rep, which is arguably way worse.

Raven016 wrote: »

will this be the end game loop?

One of them for sure

Spif

Organized farming sessions would have "logout mules", if holding mats or transport is likely to be dangerous.

Every 15-30 min after looking around for enemies a mule (who has a mule for extra carrying capacity) logs in and accepts stuff from gatherers then logs out. Then when it comes time to move to a freehold/city, a few more guildies head over to guard the mules as they transport stuff.

It's one of the downsides of alts that can logout while another character is played in the area. They weaken the danger of holding mats, traveling and being in dangerous territory

daveywavey

HazardNumberSeven wrote: »

Hey,

Something in one of the latest podcasts had me curious and a little worried, but not for the same reasons much of the discussion about it was centred around.

It was mentioned by Steven as an example that certain bags will have certain interaction speeds perhaps at the cost of inventory space/size, allowing you to choose whether you want more space or a quicker loot speed that might buy you some time and be more likely to let you loot a body before the player can get back to it.

... This has a me a little confused. I was under the impression that it would be impossible to run back to your body and re-engage in PvP/loot your own body, because the world is so big and there's no fast travel, and that respawning would be somewhat random and far. By the time you get there whoever killed you would absolutely have looted your body and be long gone, and you also won't be able to call on your discord group to convene there because travel time and distance is so great that unless they happen to already be nearby there's just no way they're getting there in time.

Has something changed? Will people just be respawning and running back in an endless cycle of PvP, or have I misunderstood? Can anyone clear this up for me?

What did he mean, "Giving you time to reach it and take back your belongings" because it doesn't make sense in the context of what is realistically possible in the game, as I understood it.

Thanks.

Steven mentioned that different bags could contain different amounts of certain items. For example, you might be carrying a bag that specialised in Wood Items, and so be able to carry 10 Wood.
Your attacker comes along not knowing what they're going to loot, and so has to choose a more standard bag. They're only able to loot 5 Wood from your corpse, meaning that there's still 5 of your Wood left on your body.
If you can get back to it, that 5 Wood is yours.

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