The future is here! About AI's...

I didn't follow the updates and development of the game for a few months, so I apologize if this has already been mentioned somewhere and I just didn't see it/don't know.

The question is: today we cannot talk about technology and not mention the much-loved/hated Artificial Intelligence on the subject. We already know that there are AIs for everything nowadays, and also many plans for implementations in games (intelligent NPCs, dynamic mobs, etc.). So, what is Intrepid’s position on this issue? Are there any plans to implement AIs in the game?

Thanks.

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McShave

They don't have plans right now for any AI implementation, but they are considering all options for the future. Search "AI" on the forum and you'll see a few threads

Depraved

why are people obsessed with AI? thats just a tool to solve problems (usually for predicting the best solution). some problems can be better solved with mor "traditional" approaches.

adding AI for the sake of adding AI isnt a good idea.

lord_flacko

Depraved wrote: »

why are people obsessed with AI? thats just a tool to solve problems (usually for predicting the best solution). some problems can be better solved with mor "traditional" approaches.

adding AI for the sake of adding AI isnt a good idea.

The ideas for using AI in games that I've seen are really impressive, but the question here was to know about Intrepid's position on this subject, I didn't give any suggestions for use.

Depraved

lord_flacko wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

why are people obsessed with AI? thats just a tool to solve problems (usually for predicting the best solution). some problems can be better solved with mor "traditional" approaches.

adding AI for the sake of adding AI isnt a good idea.

The ideas for using AI in games that I've seen are really impressive, but the question here was to know about Intrepid's position on this subject, I didn't give any suggestions for use.

examples?

and i see what you mean. but every now and then an ai thread pops up. its basically like asking "hey intrepid are you going to use a hammer, a shoe, or a screwdriver?"

its ok to be curious though ;3

Enigmatic Sage

AI has been used in many games over the decades.
Could you be more specific? are you asking about AI driven conversations between the player and npc? AI impact when fighting npcs? AI's role in development to replace staff?

EDIT:

Topics like these remind me of nvidia's RTX and players asking about ray tracing as if ray tracing was only invented when RTX was marketed lol. no offense of course

lord_flacko

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

AI has been used in many games over the decades.
Could you be more specific? are you asking about AI driven conversations between the player and npc? AI impact when fighting npcs?

That is, current AIs in the game's structure, NPCs that talk to you about certain subjects (those that suit them and the quests related to them) that are no longer something mechanical, bosses that adapt to the style of the group that is facing them, etc. I'm not referring to AIs that generate content that could affect the employment of developers, but rather AIs that even help to employ developers who know how to make good use of them.

There are countless possibilities for using AI.

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

AI's role in development to replace staff?

Never! I'm a developer too (but not games), I would never want that.

Nerror

Depending on the complexity of the game mechanics and lore, I wouldn't mind a chatgpt-like feature built in, where you can query "Who is Norlan and why is she important to this NPC?, or perhaps you can ask which abilities synergize with this particular skill, and it'll provide a list and short descriptions.

It's basically just going to be an extension of the wiki (which might add that feature for all we know) or akin to asking google, but I find chatgpt to be much better to ask for directions for technical stuff or historical facts, because it just delivers what you need right away instead of you having to look through articles and sifting through irrelevant information. Well, with the caveat that chatgpt sometimes just lies to you and makes shit up.

lord_flacko

I appreciate your attention on this topic, but my guild friends have already provided me with a lot of support in this regard. I already know that there is an aversion to AI (which I believe is ignorance/preconception) on Intrepid's part. Many still see AI as the enemy, and that is plausible. The best way is to let time deal with this.

Enigmatic Sage

lord_flacko wrote: »

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

AI has been used in many games over the decades.
Could you be more specific? are you asking about AI driven conversations between the player and npc? AI impact when fighting npcs?

That is, current AIs in the game's structure, NPCs that talk to you about certain subjects (those that suit them and the quests related to them) that are no longer something mechanical, bosses that adapt to the style of the group that is facing them, etc. I'm not referring to AIs that generate content that could affect the employment of developers, but rather AIs that even help to employ developers who know how to make good use of them.

There are countless possibilities for using AI.

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

AI's role in development to replace staff?

Never! I'm a developer too (but not games), I would never want that.

ok just needed some foundational context. thank you!

I'm not sure how deep the scripted pool source for information is with conversational options but in relation to combat, it's definitely a work in progress and not conclusive as far as I know.

I'm advocating for more chaos and open minded combat for bosses. I personally do not find predictably scripted boss encounters that fun or engaging. The players are essentially just doing the same old dance repetitively. I would definitely prefer less predictability so players pay attention, communicate and react opposed to scripted playstyles.

If boss encounters are going to be like... "oh this attack comes after this, get ready to soak and interrupt this... stand here until it rinses and repeats..." then that is going to be extremely over done and eventually boring in my opinion, especially for replay-ability.

lord_flacko

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

I'm advocating for more chaos and open minded combat for bosses. I personally do not find predictably scripted boss encounters that fun or engaging. The players are essentially just doing the same old dance repetitively. I would definitely prefer less predictability so players pay attention, communicate and react opposed to scripted playstyles.

Yes, yes and yes!

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

If boss encounters are going to be like... "oh this attack comes after this, get ready to soak and interrupt this... stand here until it rinses and repeats..." then that is going to be extremely over done and eventually boring in my opinion, especially for replay-ability.

And that's what it's going to be, right? ^^

And not to mention that they show the mechanics of the bosses, explain step by step how to deal with them, and this in line with what you mentioned I find pathetic. Players have to find out for themselves. That's the beauty of the game. Isn't it enough to always have the same mechanics? Isn't it enough to just memorize what and how to do it?

Enigmatic Sage

lord_flacko wrote: »

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

I'm advocating for more chaos and open minded combat for bosses. I personally do not find predictably scripted boss encounters that fun or engaging. The players are essentially just doing the same old dance repetitively. I would definitely prefer less predictability so players pay attention, communicate and react opposed to scripted playstyles.

Yes, yes and yes!

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

If boss encounters are going to be like... "oh this attack comes after this, get ready to soak and interrupt this... stand here until it rinses and repeats..." then that is going to be extremely over done and eventually boring in my opinion, especially for replay-ability.

And that's what it's going to be, right? ^^

And not to mention that they show the mechanics of the bosses, explain step by step how to deal with them, and this in line with what you mentioned I find pathetic. Players have to find out for themselves. That's the beauty of the game. Isn't it enough to always have the same mechanics? Isn't it enough to just memorize what and how to do it?

I'm definitely hoping for it and I like to believe there are others advocating for this as well. Nothing wrong with learning/knowing the boss abilities and how to essentially deal with them to some degree but to have them so linearly scripted... that's not engaging to me mechanically. Imagine going to the same party every week, with the same song play list and same group dances.. First up.. the hokey pokey, then the macarena, etc. haha

Ruerik

Most AI that could be used to provide the fast paced combat that we are looking for, require training. After all we need something that can make a decision within a second, and low computational resource use, otherwise the game will be crushed by all the users all over the place fighting, trying to keep up with computations.

Training AI for ashes, probably cannot be generic to be used by everything. Sure some things may have overlap, but different mobs have different skillsets, live in different areas with different environmental conditions.

Each mob group needs thousands of training data. At some point our eyes need to start spinning like @_@ as we wonder is it even worth it. A script can be written to be flexible enough and have some measure of randomness to work, well enough. And doesn't have any cost associated with training, plus writing a script is pretty quick, and very easy to make changes to in the future if anything changes, or some seasonal event is going on, or some other new world state introduced to the game.

lord_flacko

Another thing that an AI incorporated into the game would help a lot with (I believe) is the node mechanics. Taking into account all of Intrepid's promises and plans regarding nodes, an AI would fit like a glove for everything.

Examples: a node will have the characteristics of the race that contributes most to its development/level up, imagine how an AI could contribute to this happening, hundreds of codes (without having to fire programmers) less, leaving everything up to the AI to handle .

Everything around the node will be dynamic according to its level, among other details already known. Imagine what an AI could contribute to this too. Generating mobs, quests, dungeons, infinite possibilities.

Among many other things.

But of course, there is still the issue of AI being prepared for this, their training, etc. So we continue with "let the future deal with this issue" ^^

Veeshan

chat GPT being used with runescape bots and players have a hard time telling them appart from players cause they talk back just a player would :P

Enigmatic Sage

Veeshan wrote: »

chat GPT being used with runescape bots and players have a hard time telling them appart from players cause they talk back just a player would :P

it some ways you could at least be having a more intelligent conversation than with the actual person.. lol.

Good thing no botting, addons and third party software allowed to allow players to use these things directly

Veeshan

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

Veeshan wrote: »

chat GPT being used with runescape bots and players have a hard time telling them appart from players cause they talk back just a player would :P

it some ways you could at least be having a more intelligent conversation than with the actual person.. lol.

Good thing no botting, addons and third party software allowed to allow players to use these things directly

If devs used chat gpt bots to fill out some NPC in the worlds they create i think it would make for some emersive experience though

Enigmatic Sage

Veeshan wrote: »

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

Veeshan wrote: »

chat GPT being used with runescape bots and players have a hard time telling them appart from players cause they talk back just a player would :P

it some ways you could at least be having a more intelligent conversation than with the actual person.. lol.

Good thing no botting, addons and third party software allowed to allow players to use these things directly

If devs used chat gpt bots to fill out some NPC in the worlds they create i think it would make for some emersive experience though

it potentially could but that all depends on the input and output reservoir of information. If it's continuously gaining information from each player they interact with, it could just become a complete degenerate or even just raise an army and wipe out the players lol. It could actually even make immersion worse to be honest depending how it could be handled aside from the degenerate jokes. I'm fine with the current plans as is

EDIT:

Think of it this way, AI has been part of video games for awhile regardless of purpose. I would rather play ashes where AI is more of a focal point for NPC's such combat but not where I'm playing with bots instead of players. Merchants and what not, sure it could be subjectively immersive but you're risking a lot of the games potential with those risks as well because many issues can occur with ashes design from my understanding anyways.

Look at a game like oblivion/skyrim. The npc's turn and directly engage in conversation with you. Then imagine several players interacting with it simultaneously waiting for vocal or text input. That could be a large load on the AI server shard especially if the AI doesn't know what you're trying to find out because of things like KEKW and KEKL, poor grammar, incoherence etc. Ai isn't the same sentience currently. It only knows what it's allowed to know in context. It's a very biased thing, designed to be biased by a biased source.

Raven016

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

Veeshan wrote: »

chat GPT being used with runescape bots and players have a hard time telling them appart from players cause they talk back just a player would :P

it some ways you could at least be having a more intelligent conversation than with the actual person.. lol.

Good thing no botting, addons and third party software allowed to allow players to use these things directly

Next step is to fall in love with a bot.
The good thing is that population might decrease.

You just have to afford paying the electricity bills.
MMO servers will consume more too.

Enigmatic Sage

Raven016 wrote: »

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

Veeshan wrote: »

chat GPT being used with runescape bots and players have a hard time telling them appart from players cause they talk back just a player would :P

it some ways you could at least be having a more intelligent conversation than with the actual person.. lol.

Good thing no botting, addons and third party software allowed to allow players to use these things directly

Next step is to fall in love with a bot.
The good thing is that population might decrease.

You just have to afford paying the electricity bills.
MMO servers will consume more too.

lol funny thing about that other than specific context of certain words is that I saw that you can pay for AI spouses now and its been something that has been going on for at least a little while as far I know based on the source.

Freemeta

something like Morpheus from Overgeared

acting like the Game Master
https://overgeared.fandom.com/wiki/Morpheus

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