Magos wrote: » Dear Ashes of Creation Community and Developers, I hope this message finds you well. I'm reaching out to discuss the Artisanship system in our beloved MMO, Ashes of Creation. Currently, as many of you know, players can master only two professions. While this system has its merits, I believe there is a strong case for expanding the number of professions a player can master. Here are some reasons why: Diverse Playstyles and Personalization: Allowing players to master more professions supports diverse playstyles and personalization. This flexibility can cater to a wider range of players, encouraging them to invest more time and creativity into their characters. Economic Depth: More mastered professions could lead to a more intricate and dynamic in-game economy. It opens up possibilities for complex trade and business relationships between players, enhancing the game's economic realism and engagement. Long-term Engagement: Expanding the mastery limit can increase the game's long-term appeal. Players would have more goals to strive for, keeping them engaged with the game over a longer period. Community Collaboration: With more mastered professions, players could contribute more significantly to community projects and events, fostering a sense of teamwork and collective achievement. Narrative and Roleplaying Opportunities: More professions mean more opportunities for roleplaying and narrative development. Players can create more nuanced and complex backstories for their characters, enriching the game's lore and roleplaying community. Skill and Mastery Recognition: Increasing the number of professions players can master allows for greater recognition of skill and dedication. It provides a tangible way for players to showcase their commitment and expertise. While I understand there may be concerns about balance and specialization, I believe these can be addressed through careful game design. The aim is not to diminish the value of specialization but to enhance the overall richness and depth of the game experience. I would love to hear your thoughts on this matter, whether you're a fellow player or a member of the development team. Let's discuss how we can make Ashes of Creation even more engaging and enjoyable for everyone. Thank you for considering this proposal. Best regards, Magos
Magos wrote: » Dear Ashes of Creation Community and Developers, I hope this message finds you well. I'm reaching out to discuss the Artisanship system in our beloved MMO, Ashes of Creation. Currently, as many of you know, players can master only two professions. While this system has its merits, I believe there is a strong case for expanding the number of professions a player can master.
Magos wrote: » Here are some reasons why: Diverse Playstyles and Personalization: Allowing players to master more professions supports diverse playstyles and personalization. This flexibility can cater to a wider range of players, encouraging them to invest more time and creativity into their characters. Economic Depth: More mastered professions could lead to a more intricate and dynamic in-game economy. It opens up possibilities for complex trade and business relationships between players, enhancing the game's economic realism and engagement. Long-term Engagement: Expanding the mastery limit can increase the game's long-term appeal. Players would have more goals to strive for, keeping them engaged with the game over a longer period. Community Collaboration: With more mastered professions, players could contribute more significantly to community projects and events, fostering a sense of teamwork and collective achievement.
Azherae wrote: » Magos wrote: » Dear Ashes of Creation Community and Developers, I hope this message finds you well. I'm reaching out to discuss the Artisanship system in our beloved MMO, Ashes of Creation. Currently, as many of you know, players can master only two professions. While this system has its merits, I believe there is a strong case for expanding the number of professions a player can master. I'm not sure if you are fully aware of the recent livestream implications, and there was also some data dropped in Discord by Steven. So, just in case, I'll give some context, if you already know this, please clarify: Mastery of Professions now seems to be a pyramid. You can be GrandMaster in 2 things, but you can also be Master in 3 things. There are two ways we could take this. It could be "We can be Grandmaster Armorsmith and Weaponsmith and then also Master Fisher, Master Smelter, Master Miner", or it can be 'We can be Grandmaster Armorsmith and Weaponsmith and Master Miner'. In the second case, it would be that we're taking those words to mean 'you can take 3 UP TO Master and then two of THOSE to Grand Master'. I personally don't think they meant the second, because I don't see an economic requirement to do that. Games do fine when there is top level specialization without needing there to be a lot of restriction on the middle tiers. This would also let you do a lot of Mastering of things and 'expand the time spent' as you mentioned. Other than that I agree with others that quite a few of your reasonings: Magos wrote: » Here are some reasons why: Diverse Playstyles and Personalization: Allowing players to master more professions supports diverse playstyles and personalization. This flexibility can cater to a wider range of players, encouraging them to invest more time and creativity into their characters. Economic Depth: More mastered professions could lead to a more intricate and dynamic in-game economy. It opens up possibilities for complex trade and business relationships between players, enhancing the game's economic realism and engagement. Long-term Engagement: Expanding the mastery limit can increase the game's long-term appeal. Players would have more goals to strive for, keeping them engaged with the game over a longer period. Community Collaboration: With more mastered professions, players could contribute more significantly to community projects and events, fostering a sense of teamwork and collective achievement. Don't actually result from what you're suggesting, and in some cases, it's the opposite. So I also disagree with you, but I can see your point somewhat if we get the 'Three at Master or Higher' model and not the '5 total at Master and higher, 2 of those Grand Master' model.
Depraved wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Magos wrote: » Dear Ashes of Creation Community and Developers, I hope this message finds you well. I'm reaching out to discuss the Artisanship system in our beloved MMO, Ashes of Creation. Currently, as many of you know, players can master only two professions. While this system has its merits, I believe there is a strong case for expanding the number of professions a player can master. I'm not sure if you are fully aware of the recent livestream implications, and there was also some data dropped in Discord by Steven. So, just in case, I'll give some context, if you already know this, please clarify: Mastery of Professions now seems to be a pyramid. You can be GrandMaster in 2 things, but you can also be Master in 3 things. There are two ways we could take this. It could be "We can be Grandmaster Armorsmith and Weaponsmith and then also Master Fisher, Master Smelter, Master Miner", or it can be 'We can be Grandmaster Armorsmith and Weaponsmith and Master Miner'. In the second case, it would be that we're taking those words to mean 'you can take 3 UP TO Master and then two of THOSE to Grand Master'. I personally don't think they meant the second, because I don't see an economic requirement to do that. Games do fine when there is top level specialization without needing there to be a lot of restriction on the middle tiers. This would also let you do a lot of Mastering of things and 'expand the time spent' as you mentioned. Other than that I agree with others that quite a few of your reasonings: Magos wrote: » Here are some reasons why: Diverse Playstyles and Personalization: Allowing players to master more professions supports diverse playstyles and personalization. This flexibility can cater to a wider range of players, encouraging them to invest more time and creativity into their characters. Economic Depth: More mastered professions could lead to a more intricate and dynamic in-game economy. It opens up possibilities for complex trade and business relationships between players, enhancing the game's economic realism and engagement. Long-term Engagement: Expanding the mastery limit can increase the game's long-term appeal. Players would have more goals to strive for, keeping them engaged with the game over a longer period. Community Collaboration: With more mastered professions, players could contribute more significantly to community projects and events, fostering a sense of teamwork and collective achievement. Don't actually result from what you're suggesting, and in some cases, it's the opposite. So I also disagree with you, but I can see your point somewhat if we get the 'Three at Master or Higher' model and not the '5 total at Master and higher, 2 of those Grand Master' model. they obviously meant the 2nd one. to become a grandmaster you have to go through master .-. if you can be a grandmaster in 2 things and a master in 3 different things, that means now you are a master of 5 things ._.
Azherae wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Magos wrote: » Dear Ashes of Creation Community and Developers, I hope this message finds you well. I'm reaching out to discuss the Artisanship system in our beloved MMO, Ashes of Creation. Currently, as many of you know, players can master only two professions. While this system has its merits, I believe there is a strong case for expanding the number of professions a player can master. I'm not sure if you are fully aware of the recent livestream implications, and there was also some data dropped in Discord by Steven. So, just in case, I'll give some context, if you already know this, please clarify: Mastery of Professions now seems to be a pyramid. You can be GrandMaster in 2 things, but you can also be Master in 3 things. There are two ways we could take this. It could be "We can be Grandmaster Armorsmith and Weaponsmith and then also Master Fisher, Master Smelter, Master Miner", or it can be 'We can be Grandmaster Armorsmith and Weaponsmith and Master Miner'. In the second case, it would be that we're taking those words to mean 'you can take 3 UP TO Master and then two of THOSE to Grand Master'. I personally don't think they meant the second, because I don't see an economic requirement to do that. Games do fine when there is top level specialization without needing there to be a lot of restriction on the middle tiers. This would also let you do a lot of Mastering of things and 'expand the time spent' as you mentioned. Other than that I agree with others that quite a few of your reasonings: Magos wrote: » Here are some reasons why: Diverse Playstyles and Personalization: Allowing players to master more professions supports diverse playstyles and personalization. This flexibility can cater to a wider range of players, encouraging them to invest more time and creativity into their characters. Economic Depth: More mastered professions could lead to a more intricate and dynamic in-game economy. It opens up possibilities for complex trade and business relationships between players, enhancing the game's economic realism and engagement. Long-term Engagement: Expanding the mastery limit can increase the game's long-term appeal. Players would have more goals to strive for, keeping them engaged with the game over a longer period. Community Collaboration: With more mastered professions, players could contribute more significantly to community projects and events, fostering a sense of teamwork and collective achievement. Don't actually result from what you're suggesting, and in some cases, it's the opposite. So I also disagree with you, but I can see your point somewhat if we get the 'Three at Master or Higher' model and not the '5 total at Master and higher, 2 of those Grand Master' model. they obviously meant the 2nd one. to become a grandmaster you have to go through master .-. if you can be a grandmaster in 2 things and a master in 3 different things, that means now you are a master of 5 things ._. I can't say this is obvious, because in the games I play it would work the first way. I agree that it is quite possible they mean this, but I can't say 'obvious'. If you consider it to be important for it to work the second way, make sure to let Intrepid know your opinion on that, since your reaction doesn't directly say 'I don't like this'.
Depraved wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Magos wrote: » Dear Ashes of Creation Community and Developers, I hope this message finds you well. I'm reaching out to discuss the Artisanship system in our beloved MMO, Ashes of Creation. Currently, as many of you know, players can master only two professions. While this system has its merits, I believe there is a strong case for expanding the number of professions a player can master. I'm not sure if you are fully aware of the recent livestream implications, and there was also some data dropped in Discord by Steven. So, just in case, I'll give some context, if you already know this, please clarify: Mastery of Professions now seems to be a pyramid. You can be GrandMaster in 2 things, but you can also be Master in 3 things. There are two ways we could take this. It could be "We can be Grandmaster Armorsmith and Weaponsmith and then also Master Fisher, Master Smelter, Master Miner", or it can be 'We can be Grandmaster Armorsmith and Weaponsmith and Master Miner'. In the second case, it would be that we're taking those words to mean 'you can take 3 UP TO Master and then two of THOSE to Grand Master'. I personally don't think they meant the second, because I don't see an economic requirement to do that. Games do fine when there is top level specialization without needing there to be a lot of restriction on the middle tiers. This would also let you do a lot of Mastering of things and 'expand the time spent' as you mentioned. Other than that I agree with others that quite a few of your reasonings: Magos wrote: » Here are some reasons why: Diverse Playstyles and Personalization: Allowing players to master more professions supports diverse playstyles and personalization. This flexibility can cater to a wider range of players, encouraging them to invest more time and creativity into their characters. Economic Depth: More mastered professions could lead to a more intricate and dynamic in-game economy. It opens up possibilities for complex trade and business relationships between players, enhancing the game's economic realism and engagement. Long-term Engagement: Expanding the mastery limit can increase the game's long-term appeal. Players would have more goals to strive for, keeping them engaged with the game over a longer period. Community Collaboration: With more mastered professions, players could contribute more significantly to community projects and events, fostering a sense of teamwork and collective achievement. Don't actually result from what you're suggesting, and in some cases, it's the opposite. So I also disagree with you, but I can see your point somewhat if we get the 'Three at Master or Higher' model and not the '5 total at Master and higher, 2 of those Grand Master' model. they obviously meant the 2nd one. to become a grandmaster you have to go through master .-. if you can be a grandmaster in 2 things and a master in 3 different things, that means now you are a master of 5 things ._. I can't say this is obvious, because in the games I play it would work the first way. I agree that it is quite possible they mean this, but I can't say 'obvious'. If you consider it to be important for it to work the second way, make sure to let Intrepid know your opinion on that, since your reaction doesn't directly say 'I don't like this'. oh ok. so in the games you play once you get 3 professions to master, then promote one to grand master, a slot opens up to get a new profession to master? o-o what happens to the stuff you got in the profession you promoted to grandmaster from 0 - master? like skills, etc
Azherae wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Magos wrote: » Dear Ashes of Creation Community and Developers, I hope this message finds you well. I'm reaching out to discuss the Artisanship system in our beloved MMO, Ashes of Creation. Currently, as many of you know, players can master only two professions. While this system has its merits, I believe there is a strong case for expanding the number of professions a player can master. I'm not sure if you are fully aware of the recent livestream implications, and there was also some data dropped in Discord by Steven. So, just in case, I'll give some context, if you already know this, please clarify: Mastery of Professions now seems to be a pyramid. You can be GrandMaster in 2 things, but you can also be Master in 3 things. There are two ways we could take this. It could be "We can be Grandmaster Armorsmith and Weaponsmith and then also Master Fisher, Master Smelter, Master Miner", or it can be 'We can be Grandmaster Armorsmith and Weaponsmith and Master Miner'. In the second case, it would be that we're taking those words to mean 'you can take 3 UP TO Master and then two of THOSE to Grand Master'. I personally don't think they meant the second, because I don't see an economic requirement to do that. Games do fine when there is top level specialization without needing there to be a lot of restriction on the middle tiers. This would also let you do a lot of Mastering of things and 'expand the time spent' as you mentioned. Other than that I agree with others that quite a few of your reasonings: Magos wrote: » Here are some reasons why: Diverse Playstyles and Personalization: Allowing players to master more professions supports diverse playstyles and personalization. This flexibility can cater to a wider range of players, encouraging them to invest more time and creativity into their characters. Economic Depth: More mastered professions could lead to a more intricate and dynamic in-game economy. It opens up possibilities for complex trade and business relationships between players, enhancing the game's economic realism and engagement. Long-term Engagement: Expanding the mastery limit can increase the game's long-term appeal. Players would have more goals to strive for, keeping them engaged with the game over a longer period. Community Collaboration: With more mastered professions, players could contribute more significantly to community projects and events, fostering a sense of teamwork and collective achievement. Don't actually result from what you're suggesting, and in some cases, it's the opposite. So I also disagree with you, but I can see your point somewhat if we get the 'Three at Master or Higher' model and not the '5 total at Master and higher, 2 of those Grand Master' model. they obviously meant the 2nd one. to become a grandmaster you have to go through master .-. if you can be a grandmaster in 2 things and a master in 3 different things, that means now you are a master of 5 things ._. I can't say this is obvious, because in the games I play it would work the first way. I agree that it is quite possible they mean this, but I can't say 'obvious'. If you consider it to be important for it to work the second way, make sure to let Intrepid know your opinion on that, since your reaction doesn't directly say 'I don't like this'. oh ok. so in the games you play once you get 3 professions to master, then promote one to grand master, a slot opens up to get a new profession to master? o-o what happens to the stuff you got in the profession you promoted to grandmaster from 0 - master? like skills, etc Nothing specifically needs to 'happen' to it? I don't think I understand why anything would happen? I'd take the Artisan Test to raise from Master to Grand Master in, let's say, Alchemy. If I passed, now I would be able to take the Artisan Test to advance from Journeyman to Master in Weapon Smithing. Would you have a problem with this system? Passing the test doesn't change anything else, it just allows me to level past whatever point i was capped at. Note, if it matters, I'm not saying 'this is exactly how FFXI works' at all. I'm saying that if FFXI used the more simple system that Ashes wants to use, I would expect the first of the two scenarios I talked about.
Raven016 wrote: » I don't like the idea of everyone to be able to craft everything.
Azherae wrote: » Raven016 wrote: » I don't like the idea of everyone to be able to craft everything. Could you be more specific about this, though? For example, I have issues with '3 Grandmaster Professions only and everything else capped at Apprentice' for both 'too much available' AND 'too much restriction'. I have problems with '2 Grandmaster, 3 Master, 4 Journeyman' etc in most games because they don't have as many diverse Artisan paths as Ashes. The OP might like 3 or 4 Mastered professions, which still isn't 'can craft everything' even in most designs, definitely wouldn't be, in Ashes, from what we've seen so far.
Raven016 wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Raven016 wrote: » I don't like the idea of everyone to be able to craft everything. Could you be more specific about this, though? For example, I have issues with '3 Grandmaster Professions only and everything else capped at Apprentice' for both 'too much available' AND 'too much restriction'. I have problems with '2 Grandmaster, 3 Master, 4 Journeyman' etc in most games because they don't have as many diverse Artisan paths as Ashes. The OP might like 3 or 4 Mastered professions, which still isn't 'can craft everything' even in most designs, definitely wouldn't be, in Ashes, from what we've seen so far. My assumption is that the limitation about being able to achieve Gradmastery in everything is that we will not have enough points to allocate to everything. That is how I seen such constraints implemented previously when the start allows "all" but later you specialize. Such systems can allow to sacrifice reaching the maximum but spread out more on different branches. Having a wider spread out correlated to "Gear has approximately a 40-50% influence on a players overall power in the game.[8]" makes me worry that it can be enough to have Journeyman or Master level on more branches rather than trying to reach Grandmaster level. And then I can make one more alt and have on that one too only Journeyman or Master to cover as many branches as possible with small effort, because leveling effort is typically not linear but exponential.
WHIT3ROS3 wrote: » Raven016 wrote: » I don't like the idea of everyone to be able to craft everything. Advocating for ways a character can achieve more GrandMaster titles isn't a 0 sum game. I don't think anybody is asking to be able to craft EVERYTHING only that 5,4,3,2 is a little slim when you have 22! different professions.
Azherae wrote: » Raven016 wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Raven016 wrote: » I don't like the idea of everyone to be able to craft everything. Could you be more specific about this, though? For example, I have issues with '3 Grandmaster Professions only and everything else capped at Apprentice' for both 'too much available' AND 'too much restriction'. I have problems with '2 Grandmaster, 3 Master, 4 Journeyman' etc in most games because they don't have as many diverse Artisan paths as Ashes. The OP might like 3 or 4 Mastered professions, which still isn't 'can craft everything' even in most designs, definitely wouldn't be, in Ashes, from what we've seen so far. My assumption is that the limitation about being able to achieve Gradmastery in everything is that we will not have enough points to allocate to everything. That is how I seen such constraints implemented previously when the start allows "all" but later you specialize. Such systems can allow to sacrifice reaching the maximum but spread out more on different branches. Having a wider spread out correlated to "Gear has approximately a 40-50% influence on a players overall power in the game.[8]" makes me worry that it can be enough to have Journeyman or Master level on more branches rather than trying to reach Grandmaster level. And then I can make one more alt and have on that one too only Journeyman or Master to cover as many branches as possible with small effort, because leveling effort is typically not linear but exponential. Yes, this is what I'm familiar with as well, but we don't know if that 'old standard' implementation is the one that they have in mind. It certainly doesn't correlate to the original claim, so for now I'm personally assuming that we're in the middle. We moved a bit closer to the way you and I are familiar with, but probably not all the way to that 'Distribute A Limited Number Of Progression Points Among Artisan Skills'. There's also some other aspects of this that are related to how they want the world to feel and what type of playerbase they expect. A game with only 10% of players wanting to seriously be Artisans, is very different than one where 40% of players are seriously Artisans. But that's just my personal reason for not having feedback related to 'should they allow more or not'. I can understand either path.
