[Suggestion] Add more mobility and animation momentum

I'd love ot see more mobility

We already have the tech :
Animation & movement speed blending

https://youtu.be/t3LydR8VssY?t=944

Backward jump to retreat after casting

https://youtu.be/Sp4H9XdKHao?t=1014

Steering character while locked by animation

https://youtu.be/Sp4H9XdKHao?t=1120

Would love to see momentum as weight of your weapon slings you around. We saw a lot of those with the rooted animation in Alpha 1, we could bring those back but let the player steer the movement with WASD.
Exemples for weapon combos:

Spear thrust as your character slides forward, a precise strike that can be steered sideways to catch a moving target
Greatsword sidestepping swing, letting you cleave through lots of enemies
Hammer swing leaping your character forward before it smashes the ground

Exemple for skills :

Mage jumping backward as he blows Cold of cone https://youtu.be/OP-YMN2VXlw?t=755
Cleric kneeling forward, palm over fist, as he conjures Consecration Wave https://youtu.be/Lzlhdy3Hr2s?t=1060

I think adding more momentum and steerable movements adds a lot to mastering your chosen archetype. Adding a new dimension to how you want to build your class. A utility layer to weapons and skills where you can invest your points in passives to get more mobility and control instead of damage.

Having diversity of skills and weapons is the best option in an RPG as it lets you create your own class fantasy. Being able to tweak your builds and learn to handle different momentums adds a level of mastery befitting a game where you spent hundred of hours playing your character.

What do you guys think?
What other skills do you feel could have some sort of momentum in them?
Would you like to be able to fight while chasing an enemy, steering your character as the enemy attempts to move aside?

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Comments

Trickster

I feel the same, there should be more animation momentum!
Honestly even watching the ranger class livestream I thought that there were missing some movement skills as well... I think in general the animation team should take some ideas from more action base games like elden ring or even black desert (excluding the skill effects of BD, for me those are horrible)

Scarctic

Yes, I mean games like Mordhau and Chivalry are a bit much if we speak of combat references but I liked those quite much. We don't have to adapt to the complexity, but the intuitive combat and the hitting feedback were awesome. The momentum is not forced and is more player-driven there. Some back overhead swings were so broken when you played with a certain mouse sensitivity I ragequit and had nightmares about that bullshit... but it was fun to have so much freedom in attacking. And the head explosions and limbs I cut off all the time... xD

Anyway, this is too clean, too fast-paced, and not enough weight felt swinging the weapons there is still room to grow.

KingDDD

Combining root and split body never ends well.

Diamaht

The thing to avoid is locking you into an animation. Fast and precise animations that let you perform an action while letting you move freely are prefered.

Having animations pulling you in all directions takes a lot of control away from the player.

It works in Elden Ring, obviously, but it seems cumbersome in an mmo.

Cyridius

The second you start having extensive animations is the second people start figuring out how to animation cancel and from there the combat in the game will inevitably become ass. Animations should look nice and all but they shouldn't compromise gameplay.

Mag7spy

Cyridius wrote: »

The second you start having extensive animations is the second people start figuring out how to animation cancel and from there the combat in the game will inevitably become ass. Animations should look nice and all but they shouldn't compromise gameplay.

Nothing is wrong with animation cancels, you should be able to react and not be stuck in your abilities that is how combat feels clunky and "Ass" IE sniper for example you should be able to break out of it so you can react rather than be stuck the entire time.

lemulet

I agree and they have the tech already to do it in their own way

Cyridius wrote: »

The second you start having extensive animations is the second people start figuring out how to animation cancel and from there the combat in the game will inevitably become ass. Animations should look nice and all but they shouldn't compromise gameplay.

I think the way they are doing their animations right now does not require or imply having animation cancel. It's still needed to complete animations except you get to control with WASD the character.

Animation cancel is another debate on how skills should flow and such. Personnaly I think having skill flows where some skills can be used at different steps of others is cool. But I think Alpha 2 start is too soon for that, we need to test the basic of skills and combat to then determine how to make the skill rotations fluid and interactive.

The main goal of my post is to suggest adding more mobile component to skills so while you do your skill rotations, you have to take into account your positioning and use WASD to interact with those skill to achieve optimal positioning or avoid undesired positioning.

Diamaht

Mag7spy wrote: »

Cyridius wrote: »

The second you start having extensive animations is the second people start figuring out how to animation cancel and from there the combat in the game will inevitably become ass. Animations should look nice and all but they shouldn't compromise gameplay.

Nothing is wrong with animation cancels, you should be able to react and not be stuck in your abilities that is how combat feels clunky and "Ass" IE sniper for example you should be able to break out of it so you can react rather than be stuck the entire time.

But if people will default to animation canceling, then it might be a waste of effort to develop animations that people don't want to complete anyway. Why not stick to something short and sweet that people don't have to cancel?

We are kind of starting this thread by talking about having more involved animations, and now we are talking about canceling them regardless.

Mag7spy

Diamaht wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Cyridius wrote: »

The second you start having extensive animations is the second people start figuring out how to animation cancel and from there the combat in the game will inevitably become ass. Animations should look nice and all but they shouldn't compromise gameplay.

Nothing is wrong with animation cancels, you should be able to react and not be stuck in your abilities that is how combat feels clunky and "Ass" IE sniper for example you should be able to break out of it so you can react rather than be stuck the entire time.

But if people will default to animation canceling, then it might be a waste of effort to develop animations that people don't want to complete anyway. Why not stick to something short and sweet that people don't have to cancel?

We are kind of starting this thread by talking about having more involved animations, and now we are talking about canceling them regardless.

If everything has the same rough animation time that is short it will make the game feel more generic. Having different times (within reasonable length) ads more danger to using skills / attacks. Over having everything on the same .25 second time frame. And reduce potential animation quality and variation.

Also the point of cancelling is to get out of danger, it isn't a default to do it for no reason and end up wasting dmg and cooldowns. nor does it mean you can cancel everything at any point, variation is key.

Diamaht

Mag7spy wrote: »

Diamaht wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Cyridius wrote: »

The second you start having extensive animations is the second people start figuring out how to animation cancel and from there the combat in the game will inevitably become ass. Animations should look nice and all but they shouldn't compromise gameplay.

Nothing is wrong with animation cancels, you should be able to react and not be stuck in your abilities that is how combat feels clunky and "Ass" IE sniper for example you should be able to break out of it so you can react rather than be stuck the entire time.

But if people will default to animation canceling, then it might be a waste of effort to develop animations that people don't want to complete anyway. Why not stick to something short and sweet that people don't have to cancel?

We are kind of starting this thread by talking about having more involved animations, and now we are talking about canceling them regardless.

If everything has the same rough animation time that is short it will make the game feel more generic. Having different times (within reasonable length) ads more danger to using skills / attacks. Over having everything on the same .25 second time frame. And reduce potential animation quality and variation.

Also the point of cancelling is to get out of danger, it isn't a default to do it for no reason and end up wasting dmg and cooldowns. nor does it mean you can cancel everything at any point, variation is key.

As long as canceling also cancels the ability then thats cool. If there is an obvious benefit to canceling then thats what everyone will do and there is no point to the animation.

I'm not refering to abilities that, like scatter shot, have multiple uses dependent upon how long you cast.

Mag7spy

Diamaht wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Diamaht wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Cyridius wrote: »

The second you start having extensive animations is the second people start figuring out how to animation cancel and from there the combat in the game will inevitably become ass. Animations should look nice and all but they shouldn't compromise gameplay.

Nothing is wrong with animation cancels, you should be able to react and not be stuck in your abilities that is how combat feels clunky and "Ass" IE sniper for example you should be able to break out of it so you can react rather than be stuck the entire time.

But if people will default to animation canceling, then it might be a waste of effort to develop animations that people don't want to complete anyway. Why not stick to something short and sweet that people don't have to cancel?

We are kind of starting this thread by talking about having more involved animations, and now we are talking about canceling them regardless.

If everything has the same rough animation time that is short it will make the game feel more generic. Having different times (within reasonable length) ads more danger to using skills / attacks. Over having everything on the same .25 second time frame. And reduce potential animation quality and variation.

Also the point of cancelling is to get out of danger, it isn't a default to do it for no reason and end up wasting dmg and cooldowns. nor does it mean you can cancel everything at any point, variation is key.

As long as canceling also cancels the ability then thats cool. If there is an obvious benefit to canceling then thats what everyone will do and there is no point to the animation.

I'm not refering to abilities that, like scatter shot, have multiple uses dependent upon how long you cast.

I'm not talking about reducing ability animations, that i feel is more of a bug than anything with games that have it and just leave it.

Scarctic

This is kind of what I have in mind here when you can lead your strikes in a specific direction, active parry/ block. The cut limbs are just "flavor"

The weight of the attacks is extremely visceral to the point I get sweaty hands from excitement, cutting through other players' bodies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73FloYxQNUs

Diamaht

Mag7spy wrote: »

Diamaht wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Diamaht wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Cyridius wrote: »

The second you start having extensive animations is the second people start figuring out how to animation cancel and from there the combat in the game will inevitably become ass. Animations should look nice and all but they shouldn't compromise gameplay.

Nothing is wrong with animation cancels, you should be able to react and not be stuck in your abilities that is how combat feels clunky and "Ass" IE sniper for example you should be able to break out of it so you can react rather than be stuck the entire time.

But if people will default to animation canceling, then it might be a waste of effort to develop animations that people don't want to complete anyway. Why not stick to something short and sweet that people don't have to cancel?

We are kind of starting this thread by talking about having more involved animations, and now we are talking about canceling them regardless.

If everything has the same rough animation time that is short it will make the game feel more generic. Having different times (within reasonable length) ads more danger to using skills / attacks. Over having everything on the same .25 second time frame. And reduce potential animation quality and variation.

Also the point of cancelling is to get out of danger, it isn't a default to do it for no reason and end up wasting dmg and cooldowns. nor does it mean you can cancel everything at any point, variation is key.

As long as canceling also cancels the ability then thats cool. If there is an obvious benefit to canceling then thats what everyone will do and there is no point to the animation.

I'm not refering to abilities that, like scatter shot, have multiple uses dependent upon how long you cast.

I'm not talking about reducing ability animations, that i feel is more of a bug than anything with games that have it and just leave it.

Oh ok, then yeah I misunderstood what you meant. My fault.

Mag7spy wrote: »

Diamaht wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Diamaht wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Cyridius wrote: »

The second you start having extensive animations is the second people start figuring out how to animation cancel and from there the combat in the game will inevitably become ass. Animations should look nice and all but they shouldn't compromise gameplay.

Nothing is wrong with animation cancels, you should be able to react and not be stuck in your abilities that is how combat feels clunky and "Ass" IE sniper for example you should be able to break out of it so you can react rather than be stuck the entire time.

But if people will default to animation canceling, then it might be a waste of effort to develop animations that people don't want to complete anyway. Why not stick to something short and sweet that people don't have to cancel?

We are kind of starting this thread by talking about having more involved animations, and now we are talking about canceling them regardless.

If everything has the same rough animation time that is short it will make the game feel more generic. Having different times (within reasonable length) ads more danger to using skills / attacks. Over having everything on the same .25 second time frame. And reduce potential animation quality and variation.

Also the point of cancelling is to get out of danger, it isn't a default to do it for no reason and end up wasting dmg and cooldowns. nor does it mean you can cancel everything at any point, variation is key.

As long as canceling also cancels the ability then thats cool. If there is an obvious benefit to canceling then thats what everyone will do and there is no point to the animation.

I'm not refering to abilities that, like scatter shot, have multiple uses dependent upon how long you cast.

I'm not talking about reducing ability animations, that i feel is more of a bug than anything with games that have it and just leave it.

That's an example that works great in Mount and Blade or Chivalry, it would need to be sped up a lot to keep pace on an mmo.

I'm also not sure how important, if at all important, hit location will be in Ashes. If hit location doesn't really matter then it would be just for flavor.

I'm mean, should Ashes go down the road of distinguishing between an arm hit vs a leg hit vs a head shot?

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