Military Nodes/pvp

Since this month's live stream is pvp it got me thinking. What if we have a pvp Arena with a points system that you can bet on/participate in and if you do well you get random loot with a chance at getting a very rare item. Every week you get 100 (of whatever currency) and as you win you can buy those boxes for a set amount. I think it would add a lot more immersion plus make the Military nodes worth getting. Just think the title "Champion of the Arena" would mean something. Anyways can't wait to play and enjoy this wonderful world you all created.

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Ludullu

This is just asking for thrown battles and abuse of this system.

Therealdo

True... I didn't even think about that part to be honest.

Mag7spy

NiKr wrote: »

This is just asking for thrown battles and abuse of this system.

I dont see how this leads to people throwing battles when there is free trade within the game?

Ludullu

Mag7spy wrote: »

I dont see how this leads to people throwing battles when there is free trade within the game?

I was assuming a binding system, cause otherwise what's even the point.

But even outside the binding system, if the points matter in any way - people will be throwing battles to give certain players certain amounts of points, to make the item farming easier. L2's arena system had points and entire guilds would pour points from one char to another to get higher placements at the end of the season.

nanfoodle

I think Steven said something once about military node leaders would be picked by combat. If I remember right. Not having some type of PvP arena that plays a major part of the city, I would be greatly disappointed. Would be cool if people came from nodes all around to join or watch events.

Ludullu

nanfoodle wrote: »

I think Steven said something once about military node leaders would be picked by combat. If I remember right. Not having some type of PvP arena that plays a major part of the city, I would be greatly disappointed. Would be cool if people came from nodes all around to join or watch events.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Military_nodes
Military node mayors are elected based on trial by combat. During the election week the node will enter an open-PvP battleground state for hour-long periods where candidates (and their citizen supporters) compete to gain points by securing objectives. The highest point winner at the end of the week will win.[6][7]

Arya_Yeshe

My old idea of gambling a percentage of your own gear and fight is still alive!

Novice leage: 0% drop
Junior league: 50% drop
Master league: 100% drop

Gambling and violence!

Therealdo

nanfoodle wrote: »

I think Steven said something once about military node leaders would be picked by combat. If I remember right. Not having some type of PvP arena that plays a major part of the city, I would be greatly disappointed. Would be cool if people came from nodes all around to join or watch events.

I agree! the big guilds come in to see who is Biggus Dickus and we get to spectate and bet on the "games". Would make the node worth it. Anyways a man can dream.

xDrac

I like the thought of maybe having like a publically accessible arena within the military nodes. Perhaps something like the colloseum in Lineage II, although that might have been a bit too grand.

However, I feel like tying rewards to this brings along too many issues that could be exploited. I'd rather it just be a public testing ground for people to engage in PvP and maybe player run tournaments or something.

Cadac

How is farming gear in a PVP instance, different that PVE'ers wanting instanced dungeons?
It's the same picture.

xDrac

I'd rather we gain PvP currency in OWPvP rather than it being tied to a specific place or -even worse- instance... Like honor points in ArcheAge or contribution points in RF Online. Perhaps the amount of points you get depends on the level difference of your opponent and can only be acquired if they were purple (combatant) or smth.

Scarctic

Open world arenas? Yes.
You could do that with blocked entries and gated access only by participants.

Throwing your match should have a very negative effect then, so you don't consider it.
If you just stand around, don't use skills, have a minimum apm etc. it's a throw.

- 2 or 3 times a day would deny your access to more fights until the end of the "season".
- You would loose money, big entry fee and a penalty on breaking the rules or for being weak.
- Loosing a lot of times could also revoke your citizenship because which military leader needs bad fighters... xD

Scarctic

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

My old idea of gambling a percentage of your own gear and fight is still alive!

Novice leage: 0% drop
Junior league: 50% drop
Master league: 100% drop

Gambling and violence!

Haha yes! But only the highest gear you put on over the last 30 days...

*g*

Voeltz

Betting would be great. Is it abusable? Yes, just like everything else without limitations. The corruption system, group looting system, Auction House. That's not a real reason to exclude enjoyable features from the game. You just add rules/restrictions that make it difficult or prevent it from happening. This forum is full of people who love to say you "can't" do something in a game. Instead you should be asking how can it be done.

Albion Online has duels with unlimited wagering. They also have an arena system with rewards including gold, tokens, skins, rankings. It's fun and it works great. Nothing wrong with rewarding players in whatever gameplay layer they choose to participate in.

I think it would be awesome to have Arena POIs scattered throughout the world for duels, system driven tournaments, player run tournaments and wagering. You could have a range of tournament rulesets that are set by the creator. Free entry or paid entry, class and level restriction, team size, rewards, etc.

Noaani

Voeltz wrote: »

Albion Online has duels with unlimited wagering. They also have an arena system with rewards including gold, tokens, skins, rankings. It's fun and it works great. Nothing wrong with rewarding players in whatever gameplay layer they choose to participate in.

It's also responsible for the fairly robust RMT scene Albion has.

More than anything, it is used by RMT sellers to buy wealth off of other players to then onsell.

Voeltz

Noaani wrote: »

Voeltz wrote: »

Albion Online has duels with unlimited wagering. They also have an arena system with rewards including gold, tokens, skins, rankings. It's fun and it works great. Nothing wrong with rewarding players in whatever gameplay layer they choose to participate in.

It's also responsible for the fairly robust RMT scene Albion has.

More than anything, it is used by RMT sellers to buy wealth off of other players to then onsell.

That might actually make sense except for the fact that people can do the same exact thing through the trade window or other methods. No doubt there are plenty more discreet ways of doing it as well. Preventing wagering isn't going to stop RMT. It's all on the developer.

Noaani

Voeltz wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Voeltz wrote: »

Albion Online has duels with unlimited wagering. They also have an arena system with rewards including gold, tokens, skins, rankings. It's fun and it works great. Nothing wrong with rewarding players in whatever gameplay layer they choose to participate in.

It's also responsible for the fairly robust RMT scene Albion has.

More than anything, it is used by RMT sellers to buy wealth off of other players to then onsell.

That might actually make sense except for the fact that people can do the same exact thing through the trade window or other methods. No doubt there are plenty more discreet ways of doing it as well. Preventing wagering isn't going to stop RMT. It's all on the developer.

With a trade window, a developer can very easily flag one sided trades. If I trade you 10,000 gold and get nothing in return, that will undoubtidly trigger a look at the circumstance from someone at Intrepid. Maybe it's legit, maybe it isn't - but at least it gets looked at. Even if you put something in the trade window that is worth 100, or even 1000 gold, it is still a one sided trade that can be flagged. On the other hand, if you put so much in to the trade that it isn't overly one sided, it is a fairly poor RMT exchange.

On the other hand, if I bet 10,000 gold in a duel with you and lose, that doesn't trigger that same flag. It will literally go undetected by Intrepid, because it is the system functioning as the system should function.

Now, someone may want to say "just look at the people that are losing large amounts of coin all the time" - but there is an issue with this.

If I am selling gold on a website, I am buying it from players that have more than they need. WIth this system in place, I'd be using it to buy gold off of other players by beating them in a duel by arraingment for a set amount of coin. Then I would make the same arraingment with gold buyers hours, days or weeks later where we duel for a pre-determined amount, and they win.

To Intrepid, this looks exactly like someone that won a duel, then lost a duel. There is nothing to flag here, and thus nothing at all to look in to.

You are absolutely right that it is on developers to prevent RMT. However, one of the key things they do to prevent it (those that care, at least) is they avoid putting in systems that allow for unfettered RMT such as this.

Now, If Intrepid came out and said they think they have a system that could detect RMT with a system like this, great, have at it. However, I doubt that this is possible.

Voeltz

Noaani wrote: »

[
On the other hand, if I bet 10,000 gold in a duel with you and lose, that doesn't trigger that same flag. It will literally go undetected by Intrepid, because it is the system functioning as the system should function.

Now, someone may want to say "just look at the people that are losing large amounts of coin all the time" - but there is an issue with this.

If I am selling gold on a website, I am buying it from players that have more than they need. WIth this system in place, I'd be using it to buy gold off of other players by beating them in a duel by arraingment for a set amount of coin. Then I would make the same arraingment with gold buyers hours, days or weeks later where we duel for a pre-determined amount, and they win.

To Intrepid, this looks exactly like someone that won a duel, then lost a duel. There is nothing to flag here, and thus nothing at all to look in to.

You are absolutely right that it is on developers to prevent RMT. However, one of the key things they do to prevent it (those that care, at least) is they avoid putting in systems that allow for unfettered RMT such as this.

Now, If Intrepid came out and said they think they have a system that could detect RMT with a system like this, great, have at it. However, I doubt that this is possible.

You don't know that. Just because it's not flagged in Albion does not mean it will work the same way in Ashes, they're 2 different games. Someone losing 10,000 gold once in a duel could be legit, maybe even a few times, but it's also suspicious behavior. The average player will not be gambling their entire net worth repeatedly or on one duel. It's all about patterns. All of that information can be tracked/logged. Someone involved in RMT will be making these sort of transactions consistently. Wagering is a type of transaction which is not immune to being monitored. It is 100% traceable. Again, this is an issue of the developer understanding how to prevent it and whether they are committed.

Scarctic

I wouldn't be surprised if they invent systems to prevent RMT or ban the people paying for gold, permanently and consistently from the game. Conditions for all game mechanics with money involved, where anything that gets tracked and is looking sus will be monitored by gamemasters manually. I don't know I just can't believe there isn't a way, if analytics and ruthless ban hammers don't stop them what else could?

Noaani

Scarctic wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised if they invent systems to prevent RMT or ban the people paying for gold, permanently and consistently from the game. Conditions for all game mechanics with money involved, where anything that gets tracked and is looking sus will be monitored by gamemasters manually. I don't know I just can't believe there isn't a way, if analytics and ruthless ban hammers don't stop them what else could?

Bans and such probably would stop it - or slow it down at least.

The problem is, the first step in the sequence of events you are talking about is an automation system that flags suspect transactions. Bans happen after Intrepid CS have looked in to a given situation, but they look in to those situations usually due to transactions being flagged.

Thus, any system in the game with the potential to transfer wealth from one account to another needs to be able to have a system in place to flag anything that could be an RMT transaction. With a duel betting system, that would essentially need to be every bet (or every bet ovee a goven amount of value).

That isnt viable for Intrepid to review.

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