Resting after a Battle/Fight.

Hello,

I often try to watch the Devstreams for AoC but don't get to involed or look too deeply as I don't want to spoil to much of the game for myself and just want to look forward to playing it.

However mostly seen in the recent Devstream on Feb 29th I noticed something that rather puts me off and would like some more information and to just give my feedback on, as I can't seem to find any recent information or questions/answers regarding it.

Question: After a big fight or any fight/battle to where your Health/Mana have dropped below say 30% you are now at a point where you need to "sit" and just wait for your Health/Mana to be restored, is this going to be how it is going forward and on release?

I feel this is an old school mechanic and just doesn't fit AoC or many MMORPGs to this day and it's an outdated mechanic.
This is something I saw when I first played Aion Online after it's release and after a single fight/battle of 1-2 mobs I would sit down for 5-10 minutes (everytime) to restore my Health/Mana as Potions were not easy to obtain.

The issue is that I don't see Consumables being used in a fitting way or seem to be a 1 time thing and that's it.
I just don't see the point of this "sitting down" to restore oneself an ideal or fun mechanic.

Example: I just finished a battle/fight and now below 30% Health/Mana now comes along another player and kills me.
Doesn't sound very fun for either side nor does the idea to sit and wait for 5 minutes staring at my screen doing nothing.

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daveywavey

Bear in mind that he wasn't in a group where buffs, healing, resource sustain, etc could be applied to him by Support Classes, and that combat itself isn't finished and numbers haven't been balanced let alone finalised.

Everything you're seeing in the livestreams is an example of where they are currently, not where they're ending up.

Kutsuumugen

daveywavey wrote: »

Bear in mind that he wasn't in a group where buffs, healing, resource sustain, etc could be applied to him by Support Classes, and that combat itself isn't finished and numbers haven't been balanced let alone finalised.

Everything you're seeing in the livestreams is an example of where they are currently, not where they're ending up.

Ah yes I am aware of all that thanks.
I just wanted to know if this in particular was something they mentioned they were keeping as I'm sure something like this was mentioned 1-2 years ago.
Though as you said if this is just a placeholder of sorts then that is fine.

But just wanted to ask as this is something of a turn off for me, everything else I've seen I love.

Nerror

I am pretty sure it's an intended mechanic. For now at least. It's not one I am in favour of. At the very least, don't force us to sit. Being out of combat should be enough.

Depraved

Kutsuumugen wrote: »

Hello,

Question: After a big fight or any fight/battle to where your Health/Mana have dropped below say 30% you are now at a point where you need to "sit" and just wait for your Health/Mana to be restored, is this going to be how it is going forward and on release?

balance isnt present on the devs streams....damage, health, regen, etc. needs to be balanced and fine tuned, so ignore it during the monthly streams.

I feel this is an old school mechanic and just doesn't fit AoC or many MMORPGs to this day and it's an outdated mechanic.

where is your evidence for that? there are old school mmorpg where you can regen fast after a fight some others allow you to use easy to et potions and consumables and go back to full and some others require you to sit down and heal. also, if this is really an old school mechanic, and aoc is trying to emulate those old school mmorpg with old school mechanics, then this mechanic actually fits aoc...

This is something I saw when I first played Aion Online after it's release and after a single fight/battle of 1-2 mobs I would sit down for 5-10 minutes (everytime) to restore my Health/Mana as Potions were not easy to obtain.

i dont remember having to sit that often in aion. but i agree, having to sit 5 mins after fighting 30 seconds is boring...but i havent seen a game like that yet (i think eq was like that, but thats it). also, aoc is more party oriented. im sure if you try to solo places imed at partis, you will have to sit more often and you wont have that problem if you try to solo places aimed at solo players.

The issue is that I don't see Consumables being used in a fitting way or seem to be a 1 time thing and that's it.
I just don't see the point of this "sitting down" to restore oneself an ideal or fun mechanic.

what is a fitting way? spamming them? pls no, then pvp becomes a battle of you brought more potions, not who is better, unless they cant be used during combat.

Example: I just finished a battle/fight and now below 30% Health/Mana now comes along another player and kills me.
Doesn't sound very fun for either side nor does the idea to sit and wait for 5 minutes staring at my screen doing nothing.

thats the nature of the game. you can also use that on your favor to kill a stronger opponent. or you could also just get attacked while fighting mobs...so whats the difference? people could simply just wait until you are fighting mobs to try and kill you.

Mag7spy

I don't really have a issue with it, but i think the regen should be 50% faster.

tautau

You don't have to sit after a fight if you don't want to, go ahead and keep adventuring even if your health and mana are low. You will probably die, but that is your choice, you don't have to sit.

That said, I am fine with needing to sit. If you are better at conserving your mana and better at avoiding damage, then you won't need to sit. But if you like to fight hard mobs and live on the edge (as Steven seems to do), then sitting is the price you pay for your gameplay choices.

Mag7spy

I can understand some peoples concerns since old school people want you to be attacking a mob for like a minute to kill one thing and than need to sit after every encounter. I don't think that will be the case in AoC they will adjust balancing and not let down time be overbearing. Even more so since most mobs won't be missing since they will have heavily tab oriented gameplay.

Otr

Kutsuumugen wrote: »

Question: After a big fight or any fight/battle to where your Health/Mana have dropped below say 30% you are now at a point where you need to "sit" and just wait for your Health/Mana to be restored, is this going to be how it is going forward and on release?

I feel this is an old school mechanic and just doesn't fit AoC or many MMORPGs to this day and it's an outdated mechanic.

I like it.
If you run, you should not heal unless you use potions or you have a healer.
Players who try to kill you, should not see your health bar filling in fast.

Vaknar

Looks like opinions are varied on this subject! Feedback like this is always helpful for the team, so if you're stopping by this thread, we'd love to see you give your thoughts on what you prefer for health + mana regeneration!

akabear

Definitely do not want to be in the situation L2 was in early beta and early development where healing / mana pots were out of financial reach of the average player and healers were scarce and as such players that solo`ed or played in small groups had to sit out of pve for 2-3min every 5-10min to regen.

Endowed

I'm okay with it.
Also okay with consumables/buffs offsetting it.

Ludullu

Kutsuumugen wrote: »

Example: I just finished a battle/fight and now below 30% Health/Mana now comes along another player and kills me.
Doesn't sound very fun for either side nor does the idea to sit and wait for 5 minutes staring at my screen doing nothing.

To me that's the entire point. You're not supposed to be this bottomless pool of hp/mp battle after battle.

And same applies to mob farming as well, which would also control how fast those mobs get farmed.

Pyrolol

Buying or crafting food to speed up the health / mana recovery? That way potions arnt just spammed

Nerror

For me it's the sitting part that annoys me. I don't mind downtime after a fight to get health and mana back. But sitting? Why? I've played MMOs that required it, and it has always annoyed me. It's like a constant fun-killer in the game. Let us at least move around out of combat while we regen. Again, it's not the length of the downtime, it's the static nature of sitting doing absolutely nothing.

NateDogg187

You should regen hp/mp while out of combat and moving, but you should regain probably 3x faster while sitting. I think 5% hp/mp to full shouldn't take more than 30 or 45 seconds max though while sitting. Meaning it would take 1.5 - 2 minutes if running around. Much of it is finding the right balance of skills versus normal attacks and fighting the mobs you have advantage over if you're out grinding. I wonder if there will be any vampiric skills like Vampiric Rage in Lineage 2 to help melee classes. That would hit the spot. Even if it was a bit lower %.

Ludullu

Nerror wrote: »

For me it's the sitting part that annoys me. I don't mind downtime after a fight to get health and mana back. But sitting? Why? I've played MMOs that required it, and it has always annoyed me. It's like a constant fun-killer in the game. Let us at least move around out of combat while we regen. Again, it's not the length of the downtime, it's the static nature of sitting doing absolutely nothing.

Dunno why other games did it, but in L2 you'd burst aoe stuff (at least with certain party builds) which then took a bit to respawn, so you'd sit on your ass to wait for full regen so that you could burst again. Running was the pointless thing because you were already in the best most optimal place to farm stuff.

If Ashes decides to make respawn timers longer and make us run around - to me that'd be just as boring as sitting is to you. We're both wasting our time between mob killing, it's just different types of wastage.

This is kinda why I dislike majority of quests as well. Just pointless running around the place. And this is exactly why I prefer mob grind in a singular location. You have a goal, you have a place where that goal can be achieved, others with the same goal have the same place - you have yourself a pvx friction situation where you gotta win to progress.

k3mra

With resting after some fights you have to think about if you can manage to go deeper into a mob camp or if its too dangerours if you get a add while resting. or even if its worth to attack a player on a high traffic path.

IMO resting is a good mechanic but it has to be balanced realy good so that it doesnt get too boring, like with the example of 5-10 min after every fight

Mag7spy

NiKr wrote: »

Nerror wrote: »

For me it's the sitting part that annoys me. I don't mind downtime after a fight to get health and mana back. But sitting? Why? I've played MMOs that required it, and it has always annoyed me. It's like a constant fun-killer in the game. Let us at least move around out of combat while we regen. Again, it's not the length of the downtime, it's the static nature of sitting doing absolutely nothing.

Dunno why other games did it, but in L2 you'd burst aoe stuff (at least with certain party builds) which then took a bit to respawn, so you'd sit on your ass to wait for full regen so that you could burst again. Running was the pointless thing because you were already in the best most optimal place to farm stuff.

If Ashes decides to make respawn timers longer and make us run around - to me that'd be just as boring as sitting is to you. We're both wasting our time between mob killing, it's just different types of wastage.

This is kinda why I dislike majority of quests as well. Just pointless running around the place. And this is exactly why I prefer mob grind in a singular location. You have a goal, you have a place where that goal can be achieved, others with the same goal have the same place - you have yourself a pvx friction situation where you gotta win to progress.

Sounds like you want a korean grinding mmorpg. I can say most western people do not want these types of things.

AoC vibes with people because of the exploration part as well, there will be plenty of reason to travel across the area and farm different locations for multiple reasons.

I don't see how you compare sitting and not moving is the same as ruining around a world that should be dynamic enough to make that experience of exploring even better.

Ludullu

Mag7spy wrote: »

Sounds like you want a korean grinding mmorpg. I can say most western people do not want these types of things.

Riiight, which is exactly why sitting down and regening seems to be what Steven likes as well and has done in previous streams

Mag7spy wrote: »

I don't see how you compare sitting and not moving is the same as ruining around a world that should be dynamic enough to make that experience of exploring even better.

Because if I want to explore - that's my goal and I can do that. If I want to farm something - I'd prefer if I could do that in one place. These are 2 different goals, which go against each other, unless you're fine with wasting your time not doing one or the other.

Anti-pvpers like to bring up the argument of "pvp prevents me from doing what I enjoy, because I don't enjoy pvp". To me, having "exploration" (not really, because it's just running) and mob farming both in one activity is the same as having pvp and pve to anti-pvpers - it's bad counterintuitive design.

And on the topic of westerners not like this, isn't instanced dungeons literally the same shit? Or are people so simpleminded that moving around a few rooms of a dungeon is "travelling enough" to not seem like farming the same place? Because to me grinding an instanced dungeon is the same as sitting in one room, and iirc even in WoW classic the optimal thing to do was to simply run the same dungeon over and over, if you wanted to progress optimally. And what is WoW classic if not the westernest mmo out there.

KingDDD

I enjoy eating regenning after fights, something along the lines of 1 sit for 20-30 sec for every 2-3 mins of combat.

The more important thing to me would be to see a way to speed up CD timers outside of combat with a similar mechanic. Nothing is less fun than winning a pvp engagement only to lose the next one because 3,5, 10, or even 30min CDs arent available. Make it take time to recover, but not make me want to dodge all combat (or more likely log out) until my CDs are ready.

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