Is buying "guild percentages" a form of unnecessary "scope creep" and also too realistic?

So~ in a video I cannot quite recall right now ( I know, bad start ) there was a mention about that you can buy guild percentages and make profit from it. Like... a stockmarket.

Is this too realistic? Too deep? And is the game getting too meta with stuff like this?
Or maybe I was just high when I saw that video.
Does anyone know more? This feels crazy.
I really hope Intrepit is not wasting their time on mechanics that 95% of the playerbase will ignore in the end.

Most of all this sounded realistical to me in one of the worst ways possible.
At the end of the day I want a "fantasygame" ( what is fantasy and what not is debatable too I know ) to not remind me of our real world too much. And stuff like this definitely would.

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Depraved

Dripyula wrote: »

Most of all this sounded realistical to me in one of the worst ways possible.
At the end of the day I want a "fantasygame" ( what is fantasy and what not is debatable too I know ) to not remind me of our real world too much. And stuff like this definitely would.

everything in a fantasy game is inspired in the real world tho. ur brain will inevitably compare both.

also, why do u think 95% of players wont use it?

Cadac

Check the Kickstarter Stretch Goals.
Edit: I see it as another level of competition between Guilds, Socials, and Nodes.

Nerror

You are talking about the stock exchanges.

If you check this video from the 11:27 mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fPIP8uu6Pc&t=687s you can see Steven and the other devs talking about it. They talk about things related to it for 10 minutes or so, if you want to get a feel for what their design goals are.

I wonder if their design for stock exchanges has changed now almost 7 years later. Or if we'll even see it until late in A2.

Aszkalon

Hah !!

You will totally NOT being able to buy my Loyalty from me and make me betray my Guild just so i can own a Freehold or so.

* Unsure look towards my Allies behind my back *

... ... ... or will you ?

Dripyula

Depraved wrote: »

everything in a fantasy game is inspired in the real world tho. ur brain will inevitably compare both.
also, why do u think 95% of players wont use it?

Hmmmm meh I guess thats true. I just never heard of this and when I compare this with World of Warcrafts auctionhouse, this will become something only for "moneymaker players" who no one ever truly knows

while they sit on their mountains of gold for a whole decade.

Lets say I just hope this won't become a nuisance to casuals one way or the other.
I know I know many people always like to throw this moral around that Ashes will not cater to casuals but lets be honest, if it wants to become the true King of the MMO world and not become another WoW with a much quicker decline, we all know where the journey will head to.

Yeah "stock exchanges" that was the word. Appreciated @Nerror .

My fear in general is that Ashes will be too overly ambitious towards hardcore'lers up to complete no-lifers and somehow those will control the entire economy after half a year or so.
In ways I cannot even imagine to predict cause I'm not (too much) of a powerhungry person.
"Stock exchanges" sounded like yet another grind niche and I fear there will be too many grinds in the end.

And @Aszkalon stop liking my posts just because they are mine. ^^

Aszkalon

Dripyula wrote: »

And @Aszkalon stop liking my posts just because they are mine. ^^

I am already happy when You sometimes find your way into this Forum in the first Place.

Azherae

Dripyula wrote: »

My fear in general is that Ashes will be too overly ambitious towards hardcore'lers up to complete no-lifers and somehow those will control the entire economy after half a year or so.
In ways I cannot even imagine to predict cause I'm not (too much) of a powerhungry person.
"Stock exchanges" sounded like yet another grind niche and I fear there will be too many grinds in the end

Note that this is almost certainly Steven's exact intention here.

Both the way they talked about that, and the overall design of the game, trend directly toward the fact that Steven WANTS economic moguls to control large parts of the economy and have it end up more like a simulation.

Technically, the Stock Exchange acts as a mild counterbalance, so that players who can see what those 'Moguls' are doing, but can't necessarily influence it enough, can play the market to get money for their own purposes in the meantime.

That factor might be too realistic, but it's probably been intended/worked in from the start.

Also Glint is Crypto.

Ludullu

Azherae wrote: »

Also Glint is Crypto.

Going to the moon just like the current bitcoin

Dripyula

Azherae wrote: »

Note that this is almost certainly Steven's exact intention here.

Both the way they talked about that, and the overall design of the game, trend directly toward the fact that Steven WANTS economic moguls to control large parts of the economy and have it end up more like a simulation.

Technically, the Stock Exchange acts as a mild counterbalance, so that players who can see what those 'Moguls' are doing, but can't necessarily influence it enough, can play the market to get money for their own purposes in the meantime.

That factor might be too realistic, but it's probably been intended/worked in from the start.

Also Glint is Crypto.

I already calmed down again.

This thing triggered some ancient old PTSD from the mid-2000's actually with stuff that never fully left my memory again.
Because of how utterly STUPID it was.
Hear my tale... of what transpired short before "Burning Crusade", World of Warcrafts first expansion, was about to be released for the first time. *thunder & lightning*

===========================================
===========================================

In the firery depths of Mount Doo- eh I mean Moltencore, there existed a blazing Hammer, weapon to the Firelord Ragnaros himself. And it was called, the Sulfuras, Hand of Ragnaros.
The centerpiece of my reviled memory.

A guildmaster of a guild I never knew, stole Sulfuras out of his guildbank, did the "/gquit" guildquit command and dishonorably ran off with one of the extremly rare worldclass Legendarys of Classic WoW.
Only problem of his, he...
... was a GNOME MAGE and not even be able to wield this prestigious piece of loot.

I was doing the abominable and played a Paladin back then, but on the Retribution path.
And with my Grandmarshal's Claymore back then... I was not truly itching for an "upgrade" in that sense but Paladin's in Warcraft 3 were Hammer-user's, I used Hammers very often when leveling up, it fit the esthetic, it fit the dream and so...
... I confronted the vile little Gollum, eh Gnome Mage I mean for the precious treasure.

Which he put in the auctionhouse, hence I came to know of the entire story up this point.

And then I stood before the price, which was INSANE for Classic WoW standarts.
5000 goldpieces. Not one, not two, not three or four, FIVE thousand gold.
A worthy price for it, when compared to it's rarity.

But the most gold I ever accumulated in the entirety of Classic WoW was probably at best 700 gold.
All by mself at least. Which I am kinda proud of. That was not easy... back then.
So when I faced this little, wrinkled old evil in form of a male Gnome Mage of unrivaled malice, I told him to be reasonable since it was apparent to me that after one week of observing the precious treasure from afar in the Auctionhouse... (pfff)
... that no one was going to buy this thing ever.

Because no matter how exquisite, no matter how pristine... the price was just insane.
And when I came to bargain like a strange Doctor would, all I was shown was a cold shoulder.
I told him and I meant it, that I would give him every coin I have up to the last copper one and would still try to pay off the price during the entire next Expansion... if he would sell it to me for the remaining 200 something goldcoins I still had.

Instead of having to put this thing in the Auctionhouse again & again, which also came with a steady cost of coldcoins he had to put up for, every 24 hours.
And the more rare & highgrade the item, the more expensive the fee.
I was only full of good intentions here but the Gollum Mage would have none of it.

>>Fastforward>> ( cause the post is slowly getting quite long )

I met that Gnome again in Burning Crusade half a year later and asked him what happened to Sulfuras?
Did he sell it? Is it a nice letterweight now? Or maybe a nice trophy on a wall or anything?
NOPE.
He told me he sold it to a random ingame vendor NPC.
Cause no one would pay that ridicolous sum he charged and that was it. His story.
The Tale about how a guy without a plan but a sh°°load of greed ran of without a plan and threw the Ambrosia of the gods into a puddle of mud, where it diluted beyond recovery and now no one was going to become a god among men.

Lame story huh? This is how it ended... at least... for many many years.
About a decade and a half later, I obtained Sulfuras after all.

All by myself.
With the same old Paladin I still had and when I played WoW for the last time, in the "Battle for Azeroth" expansion and when I could run MoltenCore all by myself, once, every week.

I had one character for every class from which at least three could easily farm the item's necessary for Sulfuras creation... could equip it and I could have given my Paladin the transmog appearance of Sulfuras.
So I could have completed the farming much quicker.
But I did not and chose to only go into the Core with my Paladin, once every week.
Cause I wanted HIM to have it.
Not just the appearance but the real, virtual thing.
The item, in my bank and in the hands of my paladin, when I truly wanted it.

And I saw victory in that year, during the first half of the expansion.

... while having buckets & buckets of gold, hundreds of thousands on my account.
In an age in which gold was much more numerous for everyone and that insane price of WoW Classic had been reduced to a complete joke, that wouldn't have mattered anymore anyway on that day.
You could make 5000 in a day, of half a day if you have a good strat.
There are people making tenthousands a day on the daily.
Goldspecialist players.

===========================================
===========================================

If you have read until here you are a pogchamp, should become Mayor or King and earn a flying mount in Ashes while I salute you.

So why did I tell you all this?
My Tale about how I chased a legendary Hammer and got it at long last.
... when it technically was obtainable by everyone easily and in that sense, way less rare & legendary.
But what is value if not what matters to us individually truly and after all?

I told you this because of how awful it started.
When I saw the strenght of Men failing and evil was allowed to persist.

Or rather... childish immaturity, obnoxious hostility and disfavour.

And when I saw that Ashes plans yet another economical factor... I fear that it will not be driven by reason and logic mostly but emotion and dark, vile feelings.
It kinda traumatized me to see how it all went down.
That ugly wrinkled Childmage Grandpa of a male Gnome had no reason to believe me of course.
He only had my word and that I was willing to uphold it and pay him back whenever I could.
In installments.

But I was 100% genuine goodwill and honesty back then and I was just shot down and believe me when I say and I do not doubted his word for a single second when he told me he rather had made massive losses with putting that expensive item in the Auctionhouse for a whole month or so and then sold it to an NPC, rather to accept that his price was insanity back then and no one either able or willing to pay it.
Appart from me that is.

And then I got it all for free in comparisation while everyone can hold a sum of gold that dwarfs or GNOMES the sum truly that he charged back then.
You can't make stuff like that up and only reallife itself writes the most cynical storys.

This event kinda put a dent in my trust for peoples rationality.
I mean I saw much worse over my life when it comes to disgusting behaviour.
There are some real embarassing people out there.

Well, I calmed down now ultimately but when I heard players will have power of the economy in wierd ways, even though I cannot imagine how, this same old horror resurfaced for a bit.
So lets be optimistic.
Nothing too unsightly will occur I hope.

Aszkalon

NiKr wrote: »

Going to the moon just like the current bitcoin

I never understood "Bitcoin".

Is it strange that i would prefer to go with Gold and Silver ?

Azherae

Well, that's exactly how that works.

Like, the entire Stock Market only functions because around 50% of the people who interact with a stock buy the stock thinking it will go up enough to make them money, and the other 50% who are selling that stock think it will go down or not go up fast enough to make them more money than some other stock.

If you think about it too long it starts to feel insane (to some). If a company (or in this case guild) reports really good results, and projects that they will get more good results, then the stock starts to go up because some set of people think it will keep going up, while some other set of people, even if they only think 'this is as high as it will go', sell.

Bitcoin is the same, and I could write you a massive essay on 'how exactly Glint is the same, except maybe not, but if not, it's in a way that's definitely worse'.

So, while you do have your crazy outliers that are so greedy that they are willing to cause others distress, it's not a stock market itself that leads to this, it's the underlying economic forces that disrupt the 50/50 balances on a large scale.

"Fear the Glint Hoarders and Caravan Runners more than the Stock Exchange".

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