Thought experiment: What if they removed dropping things on death?

Just as a thought experiment, what if Intrepid decided to stop glint, gathered and processed goods from dropping on death? What cascading effects would it have? What would need to be changed at a minimum, to stop the whole system from falling apart?

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

Percimes

What do you mean by "stop dropping" exactly?

Not disappearing from the player's inventory. (as part of the death penalty)?
Or
Nothing to loot from the ash pile (you still lose them on death but it's completely lost no one can loot it ever)?

Otr

Nerror wrote: »

Just as a thought experiment, what if Intrepid decided to stop glint, gathered and processed goods from dropping on death? What cascading effects would it have? What would need to be changed at a minimum, to stop the whole system from falling apart?

Assuming everything else stays the same, pvp will happen less frequently.
The risk will vanish or be drastically reduced.
I wouldn't like such a change.

Otr

How about a change which would show if players have something valuable?
So that explorers to be safer to explore while having no backpack or mule loaded with things?

Voxtrium

Transporting by caravans would be less likely - Transporting high level mats would always be done in player inventories. OWPVP would be more common over gathering locations but less common elsewhere. Overall the loss of resources dropping on death would be a negative change imo.

Mag7spy

You would have more open world pvp since now red players don't drop anything and their only loss is stats and XP. But the also make other people loss xp on killing them.

So effectively you would be ruining their purpose about corruption stopping pvp and creating a lot more of random pvp. Even more so over spots, and more general chaotic pvp just cause.

Unsure what the point of this is experiment is though since you aren't being clear on that. You can't say change minimum when you are talking about no drops from deaths now as that is already a giant change.

Either the game is balanced for drops or not you can obviously make a system for both. Though one leans towards PvP and one leads more towards higher risk.

Nerror

Percimes wrote: »

What do you mean by "stop dropping" exactly?

Not disappearing from the player's inventory.

I mean not disappearing from inventory.

Mag7spy wrote: »

Unsure what the point of this is experiment is though since you aren't being clear on that. You can't say change minimum when you are talking about no drops from deaths now as that is already a giant change.

I left it vague on purpose

I was just talking to a friend who won't play Ashes, and one reason is they don't like dropping stuff on death. I told them there are cascading effects if they remove that aspect of the game, and I was just curious what ya'll think those effects are.

Ludullu

If you've read your corruption thread - you already know what my stance on this is

As for Mag's point about corrupted players not dropping anything - they'd be the only ones TO drop stuff. That's their punishment. That's the L2 way which I believe is better than the current Ashes way.

Voxtrium

NiKr wrote: »

If you've read your corruption thread - you already know what my stance on this is

As for Mag's point about corrupted players not dropping anything - they'd be the only ones TO drop stuff. That's their punishment. That's the L2 way which I believe is better than the current Ashes way.

Don't you think if players didn't drop a portion of their inventories gatherable mats that players would rely on caravans less often. WIth (IMO) caravans being an extremely important system to AOC.

Ludullu

Voxtrium wrote: »

Don't you think if players didn't drop a portion of their inventories gatherable mats that players would rely on caravans less often. WIth (IMO) caravans being an extremely important system to AOC.

Force them. EZ

Make mats heavier, bigger in inventory, less stackable, whatever. Force people to use mules and caravans. And the tradeoff is you lose nothing on death.

We already have this in the game supposedly. Glint is supposed to be caravaned cause it's so heavy or smth. Big mats are the same. And the entire point of bags is to limit the amount a player can carry at the same time.

So, if anything, changing the game to no player loot would only make it better imo.

nanfoodle

My guess is once the main stream MMOers hit Ashes. They will be the largest voice. Will be interesting to see when the backers and supports of all these years end up being the minority? How much give and take will happen? This is one area I don't care what way it lands.

Mag7spy

NiKr wrote: »

If you've read your corruption thread - you already know what my stance on this is

As for Mag's point about corrupted players not dropping anything - they'd be the only ones TO drop stuff. That's their punishment. That's the L2 way which I believe is better than the current Ashes way.

May as well make pve servers as well then.

Azherae

Nerror wrote: »

I was just talking to a friend who won't play Ashes, and one reason is they don't like dropping stuff on death. I told them there are cascading effects if they remove that aspect of the game, and I was just curious what ya'll think those effects are.

Well, what did you tell your friend the cascading effects were?

There's certainly a cascading effect on development...

nanfoodle

Mag7spy wrote: »

NiKr wrote: »

If you've read your corruption thread - you already know what my stance on this is

As for Mag's point about corrupted players not dropping anything - they'd be the only ones TO drop stuff. That's their punishment. That's the L2 way which I believe is better than the current Ashes way.

May as well make pve servers as well then.

DAoC and ESO were of the best PvP MMOs made and you never needed other players loot to make PvP great.

Ludullu

Mag7spy wrote: »

May as well make pve servers as well then.

Yes, because L2 was definitely a pve game

Depraved

Nerror wrote: »

Just as a thought experiment, what if Intrepid decided to stop glint, gathered and processed goods from dropping on death? What cascading effects would it have? What would need to be changed at a minimum, to stop the whole system from falling apart?

system wouldn't fall apart...

Depraved

Otr wrote: »

How about a change which would show if players have something valuable?
So that explorers to be safer to explore while having no backpack or mule loaded with things?

nah that was suggested before. it removes risk from attackers and defenders.

Mag7spy

NiKr wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

May as well make pve servers as well then.

Yes, because L2 was definitely a pve game

L2 corruption is not as harsh as AoC. Effectively you are saying make corruption even worse for players. If we are going down make corrupting as bad as possible to the point people don't use it for pvp, just remove owPvP flagging and the element of risk/ reward. That way development time wont be wasted and pvp can only be around guild / node decs. Very easy solution if we are catering to this kind of element and reducing this pillar in the game.

Ludullu

Mag7spy wrote: »

L2 corruption is not as harsh as AoC. Effectively you are saying make corruption even worse for players. If we are going down make corrupting as bad as possible to the point people don't use it for pvp, just remove owPvP flagging and the element of risk/ reward. That way development time wont be wasted and pvp can only be around guild / node decs. Very easy solution if we are catering to this kind of element and reducing this pillar in the game.

Well, you have obviously not read the corruption thread. Seems like a you problem, rather than my suggestion's

Nerror

Azherae wrote: »

Nerror wrote: »

I was just talking to a friend who won't play Ashes, and one reason is they don't like dropping stuff on death. I told them there are cascading effects if they remove that aspect of the game, and I was just curious what ya'll think those effects are.

Well, what did you tell your friend the cascading effects were?

There's certainly a cascading effect on development...

I didn't really get into specifics much. It wasn't the setting for that, since I was driving.

I mentioned changes would have to be made to caravans, the corruption system, boss drops like epic and legendary materials, and the economy in general, since it removes one of the significant money/item sinks in the game.

But the topic kept buzzing in my head, hence this thread.

Noaani

A change like this would make Ashes a totally different game.

The premise of Ashes is that PvE creates, PvP redistributes (lets ignore how well I think that is going).

That redistribution has sieges, potentially wars and caravans as mid and high level examples - but only has item drop on death as it's low level example (not talking about level as in character level, but in terms of concepts). This really is the only place where a single player can meaningfully participate in that redistribution aspect of the game.

The game would feel disjointed with this change made if some other form of redistribution at a low level wasn't added in to replace it.

Child Item