The 'Unfamiliar' environment syndrome

I have searched on forums and other places to check if this topic was ever discussed. I like that ashes of creation is going for a system that is new to us i.e the node system and it is exciting but can't deny I have one fear. The world is mostly going to be made up of nodes and random point of interests generated by the nodes right? Do you think that the feeling of exploration will be somewhat tainted since everything around you is 'constantly' changing? Maybe since your never done exploring or the feeling of being in the middle of unfamiliar environment all the time somehow gets overwhelming or loose interest to keep exploring new places? Other games all have at least one iconic town/village/point of interest.

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Otr

Pay me 20 gold and I show you the road to the next node.

Noaani

The fact that everything in the world is temporary also means exploration is meaningless outside of the immediate want to know what is further on.

Discovering something actually new in some games actually meant something - being the first to see something that is then in the game forever is far more noteworthy than being the first to see something in a game where everything is temporary.

The joy in exploration is to expand what is known and understood - if nothing is known and understood due to it always being in flux, then there is no joy in exploration.

Percimes

My perspective as a player driven in good part by exploring the game world is not gloomy at all.

True the world will evolve and change with time, but it's not instantaneous, and, lets be honest, often the more it changes, the more it's the same. If anything, I'm more worried that everything will feel more familiar and, maybe not generic, but at least giving a sense of déjà vu everywhere I go.

Yet, the fact that change is possible gives me a reason to want to revisit some of the place I will have already be visited. Simply knowing the players have a influence in the shaping of the world makes me want to see how different Verra is from server to server. They all started with the same parameters, the only variable is the player population. So the world to explore is even bigger in a way.

Noaani wrote: »

Discovering something actually new in some games actually meant something - being the first to see something that is then in the game forever is far more noteworthy than being the first to see something in a game where everything is temporary.

The joy in exploration is to expand what is known and understood - if nothing is known and understood due to it always being in flux, then there is no joy in exploration.

That may be the way you see it, but it's not how I do. In the context of a game, being the first to see something is a fallacy: some developers will always beat you to it. And there are maybe beta testers under NDA about it. True, among players some will be in the few firsts, but if social recognition is not something one crave, seeing something for themselves for the first time is what matters. Ironically, with a constantly changing world, a players' chances of being among the few firsts to see something are multiply.

My joy in exploration is to expand what I know and understand. I don't consult guides, I don't want too many spoilers. I don't explore to catalogue the world and profit from secret knowledge of its resources.

I'm not saying you're wrong or what you said is false, but perspective play a large part on where one find joy in.

Noaani

Percimes wrote: »

That may be the way you see it, but it's not how I do. In the context of a game, being the first to see something is a fallacy: some developers will always beat you to it. And there are maybe beta testers under NDA about it.

Developers, sure.

Beta testers - not always, but as I am often the first beta tester to see various parts of games and expansions, this is not really a valid point - to me.

My joy in exploration is to expand what I know and understand.

Then the same point holds true.

If your joy from exploration is expanding what you know and understand, then the joy of exploring in a game like Ashes where content is replaced rather than added to is lessened.

There will be a point while playing Ashes where you are observing change rather than exploring. Instead of expanding what you know, you are altering what you know.

Actual exploration is likely to be more limited in Ashes than in any other MMO I have ever played.

Percimes

Noaani wrote: »

There will be a point while playing Ashes where you are observing change rather than exploring. Instead of expanding what you know, you are altering what you know.

Hehe, true, maintenance is never as sexy as announcing something new. Still, keeping up to date on the server conditions is still somewhat valuable. Someone got to keep an accurate picture of the map. Surveying resources locations, scouting the "others" and what not.

Ludullu

Noaani wrote: »

There will be a point while playing Ashes where you are observing change rather than exploring. Instead of expanding what you know, you are altering what you know.

Actual exploration is likely to be more limited in Ashes than in any other MMO I have ever played.

I'm 100% sure that content in Ashes will not be infinitely unique and instead will simply be cyclical. So a player experiencing several states of the same kind of content would mean that they've kept expanding their knowledge up to the point of knowing everything about a piece of content.

CROW3

I think it depends on why you explore. Those who explore from a deep sense of curiosity will embrace change, those who explore to check the ‘complete box’ for achievement will only be frustrated by change.

Otr

I have a deep sense of curiosity about those caravans. Where they come from, where they are going, why and what they have in those crates.

Ludullu

Otr wrote: »

Where they come from, where they are going

And are they driven by a person with a cotton eye, named Joe?

Depraved

Turjilin wrote: »

I have searched on forums and other places to check if this topic was ever discussed. I like that ashes of creation is going for a system that is new to us i.e the node system and it is exciting but can't deny I have one fear. The world is mostly going to be made up of nodes and random point of interests generated by the nodes right? Do you think that the feeling of exploration will be somewhat tainted since everything around you is 'constantly' changing? Maybe since your never done exploring or the feeling of being in the middle of unfamiliar environment all the time somehow gets overwhelming or loose interest to keep exploring new places? Other games all have at least one iconic town/village/point of interest.

it should be the opposite. there is a reason why people like exploring. if you go to the same place 20 times, you arent exploring anymore...so at some point, you will have visited the whole map, then it changes, and you can explore again and be excited about new places ;3

Depraved

Noaani wrote: »

Percimes wrote: »

That may be the way you see it, but it's not how I do. In the context of a game, being the first to see something is a fallacy: some developers will always beat you to it. And there are maybe beta testers under NDA about it.

Developers, sure.

Beta testers - not always, but as I am often the first beta tester to see various parts of games and expansions, this is not really a valid point - to me.

My joy in exploration is to expand what I know and understand.

Then the same point holds true.

Actual exploration is likely to be more limited in Ashes than in any other MMO I have ever played.

care to elaborate? i mean, new stuff will appear when the nodes get destroyed and others level up..so the same area can have several different things popping up, making it a new area..basically

Otr

Turjilin wrote: »

Do you think that the feeling of exploration will be somewhat tainted since everything around you is 'constantly' changing? Maybe since your never done exploring or the feeling of being in the middle of unfamiliar environment all the time somehow gets overwhelming or loose interest to keep exploring new places? Other games all have at least one iconic town/village/point of interest.

I doubt things will change that drastically and frequently.
Mountains and biomes will remain as points of reference while traveling.
Maybe players can get lost in biomes with dense vegetation unless they live there.
I think metropolises will last long enough. My guess is 6 months.

Noaani

Depraved wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Percimes wrote: »

That may be the way you see it, but it's not how I do. In the context of a game, being the first to see something is a fallacy: some developers will always beat you to it. And there are maybe beta testers under NDA about it.

Developers, sure.

Beta testers - not always, but as I am often the first beta tester to see various parts of games and expansions, this is not really a valid point - to me.

My joy in exploration is to expand what I know and understand.

Then the same point holds true.

Actual exploration is likely to be more limited in Ashes than in any other MMO I have ever played.

care to elaborate? i mean, new stuff will appear when the nodes get destroyed and others level up..so the same area can have several different things popping up, making it a new area..basically

There is a difference between new stuff, and stuff changing.

If one node state sees a dungeon being in a specific spot, that is something new to explore. If the next node state changes the inhabatants of the dungeon, that is not something new to explore. All you are doing is learning the changes to something you have already explored.

Sure, new areas can open up on occasion, and when you find them you may well have a small new area to explore, but in comparison to other games releasing entire new continents (in some cases, every year), a room or two in a dungeon isn't exactly a lot to explore.

This is why I specifically said exploration will be more limited, as opposed to saying it won't exist.

Dygz

CROW3 wrote: »

I think it depends on why you explore. Those who explore from a deep sense of curiosity will embrace change, those who explore to check the ‘complete box’ for achievement will only be frustrated by change.

Frustration?
Why not both?
It's fun to revisit a location and see what has changed and what has stayed the same.
That doesn't take away the accomplishment of visiting the first time.

CROW3

Dygz wrote: »

CROW3 wrote: »

I think it depends on why you explore. Those who explore from a deep sense of curiosity will embrace change, those who explore to check the ‘complete box’ for achievement will only be frustrated by change.

Frustration?
Why not both?
It's fun to revisit a location and see what has changed and what has stayed the same.
That doesn't take away the accomplishment of visiting the first time.

Exactly, because that sense of accomplishment is part of the 'curiosity' driver. It's frustrating when that change erodes that completionist %.

Otr

NiKr wrote: »

Otr wrote: »

Where they come from, where they are going

And are they driven by a person with a cotton eye, named Joe?

With a cotton beard and a Stufferton. A dangerous guy.

Otr

CROW3 wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

CROW3 wrote: »

I think it depends on why you explore. Those who explore from a deep sense of curiosity will embrace change, those who explore to check the ‘complete box’ for achievement will only be frustrated by change.

Frustration?
Why not both?
It's fun to revisit a location and see what has changed and what has stayed the same.
That doesn't take away the accomplishment of visiting the first time.

Exactly, because that sense of accomplishment is part of the 'curiosity' driver. It's frustrating when that change erodes that completionist %.

It's like not having an endgame?

Dygz

CROW3 wrote: »

Exactly, because that sense of accomplishment is part of the 'curiosity' driver. It's frustrating when that change erodes that completionist %.

Not frustrating for me, but...
Explorer 87%; Socializer 73%; Achiever 47%; Killer 0%
Might be frustrating for a playstyle with a higher Achiever score.

Depraved

Noaani wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Percimes wrote: »

That may be the way you see it, but it's not how I do. In the context of a game, being the first to see something is a fallacy: some developers will always beat you to it. And there are maybe beta testers under NDA about it.

Developers, sure.

Beta testers - not always, but as I am often the first beta tester to see various parts of games and expansions, this is not really a valid point - to me.

My joy in exploration is to expand what I know and understand.

Then the same point holds true.

Actual exploration is likely to be more limited in Ashes than in any other MMO I have ever played.

care to elaborate? i mean, new stuff will appear when the nodes get destroyed and others level up..so the same area can have several different things popping up, making it a new area..basically

There is a difference between new stuff, and stuff changing.

If one node state sees a dungeon being in a specific spot, that is something new to explore. If the next node state changes the inhabatants of the dungeon, that is not something new to explore. All you are doing is learning the changes to something you have already explored.

Sure, new areas can open up on occasion, and when you find them you may well have a small new area to explore, but in comparison to other games releasing entire new continents (in some cases, every year), a room or two in a dungeon isn't exactly a lot to explore.

This is why I specifically said exploration will be more limited, as opposed to saying it won't exist.

yeah I agree. but we don't know if new dungeons will appear in ashes depending on nodes (wkind of but not 100%, we know new floors will appear). but new stuff could appear.

also, you are comparing games releasing expansions vs a game that isn't out yet. what makes you think that ashes wont release new continents or areas every year or two after launch?

Noaani

Depraved wrote: »

what makes you think that ashes wont release new continents or areas every year or two after launch?

The first reason is that games with the amount of focus on PvP as Ashes have simply don't do this. No PvP focused game has ever added that amount of content - in fact, a single EQ or EQ2 expansion added more content to the game than was added to all of Archeage post launch (including all of Auroria, as that was all added after launch).

The second reason is related to the above - in a PvP focused game, adding more land dilutes the population. The same number of people spread over a larger area means you run in to fewer people, fight against fewer people, and thus the world is less dangerous.

The third is specific to Ashes - nodes. The game world is designed in a way where basically all the game world is within the ZoI of nodes. Adding new land means either going against that which would be weird, or it means adding new nodes.

Adding new nodes has a similar effect as above, fewer people per node.

It took EQ2 just over three years to more than double the land area the game had - this is a rate of expansion that a game like Ashes simply can not support.

So, while I don't know that Ashes won't add new land, I am very confident in saying they won't add new land at the same rate as other games.

It would literally break the game.

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