YSK: Intel 13th and 14th gen CPUs have a lot of crashing problems, especially with Unreal Engine
Nerror
Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
Update: There is new microcode out for Intel CPUs. Upgrade your BIOS with the 0x129 microcode or later to stop your CPU from degrading and permanently be damaged. Make sure Intel Default Settings are enabled after the BIOS upgrade.
So if you plan on buying a new system for A2, you might want to go with AMD or at least wait until more news and a possible fix arrives. Apparently, it isn't just aggressive Intel motherboard settings that are the culprit, which is what was first reported a while back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAE4NWoyMZk
You won't go wrong with the AMD Ryzen 7800X3D CPU for sure, but if you are budget-minded and you can wait a few weeks, look at the reviews for the new Ryzen 9000 CPUs launching this month. Like the 9600X which is likely around US$295. The 9000X3D chips might come later this year, but there is no confirmation or any dates.
The extra crashes occur on game servers running those Intel CPUs as well, so perhaps something to be aware of for the game servers you rent @Vaknar. Or at least have the team look into it, so we don't get server crashes in A2 that are hardware based, while thinking it might be a coding issue.
I should add, it's not just about crashes, one game developer even stated they had to go back and unban some people based on this, because their game client state was inconsistent enough with the server state that they got banned for cheating, even though it was a CPU issue.
So if you plan on buying a new system for A2, you might want to go with AMD or at least wait until more news and a possible fix arrives. Apparently, it isn't just aggressive Intel motherboard settings that are the culprit, which is what was first reported a while back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAE4NWoyMZkYou won't go wrong with the AMD Ryzen 7800X3D CPU for sure, but if you are budget-minded and you can wait a few weeks, look at the reviews for the new Ryzen 9000 CPUs launching this month. Like the 9600X which is likely around US$295. The 9000X3D chips might come later this year, but there is no confirmation or any dates.
The extra crashes occur on game servers running those Intel CPUs as well, so perhaps something to be aware of for the game servers you rent @Vaknar. Or at least have the team look into it, so we don't get server crashes in A2 that are hardware based, while thinking it might be a coding issue.
I should add, it's not just about crashes, one game developer even stated they had to go back and unban some people based on this, because their game client state was inconsistent enough with the server state that they got banned for cheating, even though it was a CPU issue.
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It looks like the Intel CPUs are actually degrading over time. Limiting the power was thought to be enough at first, but it is unfortunately becoming more and more apparent that they still degrade, even if it happens slower. Which really sucks for people with these chips.
I just listened to Buildzoid doing one of his "rants" on the subject and it looks a little bleak/serious. Intel need to own up to this. And definitely don't get an Intel 13th or 14th gen CPU for a new system until we know more.
By default the boost algo on i9 chips is boosting 2 cores to maximum, set all core OC to avoid those two cores being fed too much default voltage and failing to transfer the heat due to the lack of direct die cooling/a full water-cooling setup.
Intel and AMD are in a CPU benchmark meta and Hardware enthusiasts using single and dual core benchmarking programs are the target they want to please. Shipping an aggressive algo on their top end chips so they can top the benchmark charts with their flagship products for marketing purposes - all at the cost of chip degradation.
People using auto overlclock option like ASUS AI Suite are reporting degradation after 6 months of default boosting.
Set an all core profile and increase your vcore by +0.05mv. (increased voltage to counter degradation that has already occured). I have my 13900k locked at 5.5 All core, 8000Mhz 40-48-48-48 with z790i edge. Hope it helps someone, I'll do more testing when live!
I'm probably an idiot, and this just isn't an option for server hardware.
Hopefully there are swift solutions to these issues!
Personally, I have a couple of years left out of my main gaming rig. How about all of you? Looking to upgrade soon?
Hopefully not! But look into the power limit thing. It's not all the Intel CPUs that are affected it looks like, so let's hope yours is ok.
Thank you.
It's is a bit confusing with the naming
I suggested the 9000 series because it launches July 31st, but it is really only for the budget option I think it's a good idea, for those that absolutely need a new system now. Until something like the 9800X3D launches, I think the 7800X3D might even beat the all the regular 9000 series CPUs for gaming.
Oh, interesting, I was sure Gen 7000 and 8000 were different generations with different requirements.
I generally agree with going with new stuff if the price is reasonable, because you get longer resale value and tech support, but 7000 & 8000 still seem pretty new to me, and like they'll be in the perfect sweet spot for Ashes' arrival.
Is $300 for an upper midrange CPU really "budget-minded" just because of 1 generation jump?
I don't really want the focus to be on very specific buying recommendations here, but whether or not $300 is budget-minded is of course a personal matter and relative.
The main point of the thread is still about the Intel 13th and 14th gen issues, both client and server side. Intel Xeons don't seem to have the problem, nor do the 12th gens.
There are no fixes yet, and one of the leads they have is that it's a fabrication level defect causing oxidation in the CPU. It's not a power limit issue. It might also be something else, or a combination of several issues. Their main take-away is that they can't recommend buying these Intel CPUs at the moment.
Some suggested workarounds that might help are limiting the core multiplier to 53x, and also running the DDR5 RAM at 4800 speed, disabling XMP. Some of the issues that the users see are memory crashes, for example. But again, these possible workarounds are not fixes.
Rumor is Intel is working on releasing new microcode that might help alleviate the issues, but if it turns out to be a fabrication level defect, it'll mostly just be a bandaid. This is still very much a "time will tell" kinda thing.
Intel claims the fabrication defect was only present on early batches of the 13th gen processors and that it has since been fixed.
https://community.intel.com/t5/Processors/July-2024-Update-on-Instability-Reports-on-Intel-Core-13th-and/m-p/1617113#M74792
I would love Intrepid to hire Wendel fro LV1Techs to do an overlook and advise on their planned server infrastructure.
The last Intel CPU i had was Skylake 6700k during Intels persistent 4 core death grip on the market over the decade.
AMD's AM4 socket and multiple CPU upgrades has been fantastic, If you have an AM4 with a zen1, zen2 then slapping in a 5700x3d will do wonders on gaming. Without burning a hole in your wallet or requiring a 360fan liquid cooler and huge power supply to run.
If you are about to build a new PC then AM5 would be a better investment as the socket platform has been green lit support past 2027+. AM4 is on its last legs at this point and will not save you much money unless you going very low budget...
The 7600X is not the cheapest point of entry on AM5. there is the 7600 non X and also the 7500F.
I just ordered a 7500F from ali xpress for less than then $200AUD ($120USD) shipped which is significantly cheaper than the 5700x3d and 7600/X while offering similar performance...
All these CPUs are capable of running up to a 4070Super or 7800XT without bottle necking...
If Intrepid has any Intel Raptor Lake running the show then they may want to take immediate action before things start failing...
First of all, reminder to immediately update to the latest BIOS on your motherboard. It may help slow or stop permanent damage to the CPU, as well as improve stability in Ashes, but it's not a final fix yet. Look up youtube guides on how to do it. It's important.
Intel says it first discovered the oxidation issue, which it characterizes as "minor," in 2022. The company says it instituted fixes and enhanced screening in early 2023 and removed all impacted chips from its supply chain by early 2024. However, it does concede that some chips with Via Oxidation defects could have still been on retail shelves as recently as early 2024.
While the 14th gen chips might not have the oxidation issue, they can still permantly degrade due to voltage issues, so again, BIOS update folks, and stay tuned for a more permanent fix.
Intel has extended the warranty on their 13th and 14th gen CPUs by 2 extra years.
There is a class action lawsuit against Intel, and you can sign up here: https://abingtonlaw.com/class-action/consumer-protection/Intel-Processor-Issues-class-action-lawsuit.html
Since it's not just Intel, but also the motherboard manufacturers that are at fault, updating the BIOS might not be enough by itself, you might have to change a setting or two in BIOS after. Jay goes over the process here for BIOS update and settings:
I'm ok for A2 but i will need major upgrades in the future and i was hoping to be able to keep them off until AoC release. I'm starting to think i will need them sooner
Current plan is to run this rig until AOC has an official launch date, then right before sell this puppy off and upgrade to the newest hardware, wanna enjoy all that work you guys are putting in after all
If you're unsure what motherboard you have, and you've bought a finished system and it's under warranty, you can probably contact your system integrator for help.
Or you can always download CPU-Z (classic version is fine) and check under the "Mainboard" tab to see which motherboard you have. Then google BIOS for that board and look for the most recent BIOS that has the 0x129 microcode update. It might be a beta-version of the BIOS.
However, if your CPU has already become unstable and your system crashes a lot, you unfortunately need to RMA it. The new microcode probably can't fix that.
Do you know or have any insight into the tool Intel has announced. That will be able to determine the amount of damage done to a processor that otherwise seems to function normally? It sounds like they will not RMA these until they actually fail within the warranty period.
Anyhow, I would have to go through ABS in the worse case scenario. Just sitting and waiting now, not playing gam s or anything more than some browsing, news, and discussion sites. Let's hope these updates get coming quick
No I haven't even heard about this tool. Any link to the announcement?
The writer even says that is speculation "Sources: primarily Intel statements, but with a lot of reading between the lines"
Still looking for that article that I saw it. Sorry for the speculation on this. It possibly was deep into a support forum where I may have remembered reading that. So not actually confirmed
I just upgraded last month now that A2 is soon, that was what I was waiting for