Dual Wielding 1H Swords

Hello all,

If you are like me and avid fan of SAO then you two may have a burning desire to become the dual wielding black swordsman or maybe the thought of swinging dual swords just tickles your fancy in general, if so I want to discuss this. I will give a question, answer it with what I think and then I'd like to hear what you think about the question below

How do we want / think Intrepid will implement the dual wielding 1H sword?
As for how they will implement it, this is unknown for me personally. HOWEVER, let me tell you about how I want it to be implemented. My vision for this is that in the game there will be extra weapon abilities to put on the hot bar that are only activatable once you have a off hand 1H weapons equipped, maybe even go the extra mile and have different abilities based on the weapon in the second slot (Seen as your primary will have specific abilities anyway most likely). If it is implemented like this it would be similar to when you have sword and shield, if you have no shield then the ability is grayed out etc.

Now if they choose to have different abilities per the weapon in the off hand slot, then you could create all different kinds of combos. Like if you are going Sword and Axe, then you can use primary abilities for the sword skills and then follow up with some kind of combo with an axe ability which would deal more damage than if you were to not go with a combo attack sort of thing. Personally I would much prefer just 2 swords but I know people have different styles so thought I would give my thoughts.

What kind of abilities should dual wielding 1H sword be?
I will only give a few of what I think otherwise I will swamp the forums haha, but a few would be;

Repeated Slash
This could be a channeling ability where you do multiple swings, perhaps even a held ability that drains your resource. You can hold for as long as you want but only till your resource runs out. And it has like 4 animations, right arm swing down left then left arm swing down right and then both arms swing back up and then swing both swords back down then finish with maybe a spin to land back in the starting position to repeat the animation.

Block & Swing
With this I am imaging you lift one sword for a *block* probably the weaker arm, then swing with the other. Perhaps give this a 30s cool down and add stagger to the block and stun if staggered to the swing. This way if your blocks can't stagger an enemy but your team have abilities capable of staggering them then your second swing can still stun etc. Add a bit of synergy here.

Double Block
This will just give immunity to damage or 90% damage reduction for like 5 seconds and you simply cross your swords and block.

Double Attack
This would be a quick spammable ability where you just do one sword and then the other, same thing you would have with an auto attack but it has better visual fantasy effects, deals more damage and cost resource.

Auto Attack
This would obviously just be swing left sword, swing right sword and each swing is 1 hit so it basically just rotates which hand does the auto attack to make use of both weapons.

Dash
This would be an attack and not just a dash, essentially you dash towards an enemy and swing one sword and then spin as you pass the enemy swinging around again and ending in a full 360 on the opposite side of the enemy. I invasion it would have 2 parts so the initial dash in to an enemy and then dash back out the opposite side, this would require you to target an enemy and have a set range so the game is able to accurately have you dash in and connect to the enemy but then dash out the other side without being left at the enemies feet.

You could also go with a different dash option where you target an enemy and similar to the rangers air ability you will dash into the air but then dive back in with both swords off to one side and then swing both swords and spin on your way down and then impact the floor to finish the animation.

I am sorry for the awful names, I don't get paid to name things hahahaha. This is just a few abilities I invasion, let me know what you think of them and what you would like to see. This also concludes what I want to say! Thanks for reading

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ReLamas

Hey there, fellow SAO fan! I love the idea of dual-wielding in Ashes of Creation, and your suggestions are spot on! Here are a few thoughts and additions:

How do we want / think Intrepid will implement the dual wielding 1H sword?

I agree that having specific abilities tied to dual-wielding would be fantastic. It would add a layer of depth and strategy, making it more than just equipping two swords. Different abilities based on the off-hand weapon could create unique playstyles and combos, encouraging players to experiment with various setups.

What kind of abilities should dual wielding 1H sword be?

Here are some more ideas to build on yours:

Whirling Blades: A whirlwind attack where the player spins rapidly, dealing damage to all enemies around them. The longer you hold the ability, the more damage it deals, but it drains your resource quickly.

Parry and Riposte: A defensive ability where you parry an incoming attack with one sword and immediately counter with the other, dealing a critical hit if timed perfectly. This would reward skillful play and add a risk/reward element.

Twin Fang: A rapid series of thrusts with both swords, targeting a single enemy for a burst of damage. Each hit has a chance to apply a bleed effect, making it effective against high-health targets.

Blade Dance: A mobility skill where you dash between multiple enemies, striking each one in quick succession. This could be great for spreading debuffs or finishing off low-health targets.

Evasion Flurry: An evasive maneuver where you somersault backward, launching a flurry of throwing knives in a cone in front of you. This would provide some range capability and crowd control.

Dual-Guard: A stance ability that increases your dodge chance and damage reduction for a short duration, allowing you to tank briefly while dealing damage.

I think these abilities, along with the ones you've suggested, would create a dynamic and engaging combat experience for dual-wielders. Intrepid has a chance to make dual-wielding not just viable but incredibly fun and versatile.

Vospha

ReLamas wrote: »

Hey there, fellow SAO fan! I love the idea of dual-wielding in Ashes of Creation, and your suggestions are spot on! Here are a few thoughts and additions:

How do we want / think Intrepid will implement the dual wielding 1H sword?

I agree that having specific abilities tied to dual-wielding would be fantastic. It would add a layer of depth and strategy, making it more than just equipping two swords. Different abilities based on the off-hand weapon could create unique playstyles and combos, encouraging players to experiment with various setups.

What kind of abilities should dual wielding 1H sword be?

Here are some more ideas to build on yours:

Whirling Blades: A whirlwind attack where the player spins rapidly, dealing damage to all enemies around them. The longer you hold the ability, the more damage it deals, but it drains your resource quickly.

Parry and Riposte: A defensive ability where you parry an incoming attack with one sword and immediately counter with the other, dealing a critical hit if timed perfectly. This would reward skillful play and add a risk/reward element.

Twin Fang: A rapid series of thrusts with both swords, targeting a single enemy for a burst of damage. Each hit has a chance to apply a bleed effect, making it effective against high-health targets.

Blade Dance: A mobility skill where you dash between multiple enemies, striking each one in quick succession. This could be great for spreading debuffs or finishing off low-health targets.

Evasion Flurry: An evasive maneuver where you somersault backward, launching a flurry of throwing knives in a cone in front of you. This would provide some range capability and crowd control.

Dual-Guard: A stance ability that increases your dodge chance and damage reduction for a short duration, allowing you to tank briefly while dealing damage.

I think these abilities, along with the ones you've suggested, would create a dynamic and engaging combat experience for dual-wielders. Intrepid has a chance to make dual-wielding not just viable but incredibly fun and versatile.

Love the abilities suggested here and glad to see another SAO enjoyer!

Having abilities like these indeed do great a great depth that could potentially be added to a class and not just that but mixing in lets say mage as secondary archetype then you could come up with some awesome augments like adding different stuff to each like main is fire and secondary is ice, ice then slows and fire deals more damage etc.

Solid_Sneak

The dual wield is like in Lineage 2. They aim for a bespoke item you craft bt combining two of the same sword (assuming it can be crafted into dual wield).

Now, your ideas are interesting. See, some swords are impossible to dual wield, case, the Rapier. But those swords came with a PARRYING dagger on the offhand. I think a parrying dagger in conjuction to active blocking / parrying in lieu of a shield would be a great proxy for what you describe. Maybe Parrying Daggers gave you a bonus to damage versus targets you parried.

As for dual wield as an item class, I say make holding down the left click make you go into a flurry motion, similar to how the Shortbow goes full auto when you hold down the left click. Not autoattack, but slso tactical.

As for "super anime MC defenses" with dual wield, no thanks. Make it a dervish playstyle akin to a dancing berserker. No defense, just pure offense. Maybe make it the combo finisher is proc spin with the swords extended.

CROW3

Hm… why is dual wielding rapiers impossible?

Solid_Sneak

CROW3 wrote: »

Hm… why is dual wielding rapiers impossible?

The sword is very bendy, it practically demands left hand for balancing. Imagine holding a tape measure about 3 feet / 1 meter long extended, it is unwieldly if not carefully used. And it only works for jabs. Not all swords are alike. Would still make a GREAT weapon for Single weapon Mastery build akin to D&D builds with a single weapon, gaining bonus crit + evasion for wirlding only a one handed weapon - exactly how the rapier behaves, exactly how it is used in fencing.

CROW3

Interesting take. I fenced epee and rapier for a number of years. It’s very possible, but not super practical.

Solid_Sneak

CROW3 wrote: »

Interesting take. I fenced epee and rapier for a number of years. It’s very possible, but not super practical.

Depends definitely on the type of the Rapier family. Later french ones that were refined, very possible, the guard cage was basically a cross guard by that point, but man, early on wristcages? You'd flail around 👀

And that is why most HEMA practitioner swear by good ol' quarterstaff. Concussion and reach > silly sword.

Either way, make dual wield swords the slashing kind. Falchions, broadswords, hey, maybe estocs and cutlasses ( the slashing progeny of the rapier).

CROW3

I mean… we’re chatting about this in the context of a world where riding dragons is a thing, so some suspension of reality is good. 😉

Agree on the quarterstaff. I’ve been training with the katana and jo the last eight years. It’s just a super-versatile weapon.

Solid_Sneak

People do forget the staff has two ends 💀
Darth Maul showed us the light.

Nah, it is more than the supernatural aspect. Rapier would not look as impactful being dual wielded as say, a falchion, which is as "easy" to dual wield as a katana, functionaly identical. In the end, we have to remember, flavor is the spice of any good MMO. I'd rather see swords having their own kinks than being "universal". Make Rapier the duelist weapon it is, leave dual wield to the long-knives 💪

CROW3

Solid_Sneak wrote: »

I'd rather see swords having their own kinks than being "universal".

100%

Vospha

Solid_Sneak wrote: »

The dual wield is like in Lineage 2. They aim for a bespoke item you craft bt combining two of the same sword (assuming it can be crafted into dual wield).

Now, your ideas are interesting. See, some swords are impossible to dual wield, case, the Rapier. But those swords came with a PARRYING dagger on the offhand. I think a parrying dagger in conjuction to active blocking / parrying in lieu of a shield would be a great proxy for what you describe. Maybe Parrying Daggers gave you a bonus to damage versus targets you parried.

As for dual wield as an item class, I say make holding down the left click make you go into a flurry motion, similar to how the Shortbow goes full auto when you hold down the left click. Not autoattack, but slso tactical.

As for "super anime MC defenses" with dual wield, no thanks. Make it a dervish playstyle akin to a dancing berserker. No defense, just pure offense. Maybe make it the combo finisher is proc spin with the swords extended.

Now I need to do some research on how they did it in Lineage 2 haha, never ended up playing that one. I am happy to hear that there is some thought already gone into dual wielding and that it is not just thrown off to the side as useless, I really do hope that when A2 drops I will be able to conjure a build up that benefits to dual wielding system. It is a real shame when something is so cool but isn't even remotely viable.

I do like the idea of the hold down left click for a flurry, that would be a very good and similar to one of the abilities I was envisioning. I do also agree that for this game a "super anime MC defense" would not fit the aesthetic of the game, my main purpose of the descriptions was for insight into my vision. I know if they saw this and implanted something similar they would add their own twist to it and make it fit the world, which would be VERY exciting to see!

Man talking about this really gets me hyped for A2, bring on the testing!

Solid_Sneak

They have mentioned weapons having a stat that limits movement speed when wielded, and attacking, so I expect, say, swords, to not be as agile to move while attavcing as say, daggers are.

They did say the weapon type affects dusl wield as a skill tree, so maybe this is why it takes a bit to arrive, they might need to figure out single handed weapons first.

If dual wielding maces is the same as swords, well... it won't feel rewarding or meaningful.

Halae

Solid_Sneak wrote: »

They have mentioned weapons having a stat that limits movement speed when wielded, and attacking, so I expect, say, swords, to not be as agile to move while attavcing as say, daggers are.

They did say the weapon type affects dusl wield as a skill tree, so maybe this is why it takes a bit to arrive, they might need to figure out single handed weapons first.

If dual wielding maces is the same as swords, well... it won't feel rewarding or meaningful.

Doesn't that depend on whether the mace weapon tree is different from the sword weapon tree?

Solid_Sneak

I think that is what is implied, say, swords are focused on double strikes (assuming by the Greatsword tree's nature as the "double strike weapon" build it has).

The mace could be based around stuns and passive armor penetration. Who knows. But they would need to first figure out the one handed tree before moving to the dual wield variant. If not treating the dual wield version of a weapon as simply a "style" on the weapon, say giving you lower accuracy while dual wielding. Who knows.

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