Respawn points PvP on ? Time to return to your death location ?

I disagree with any such protection, because respawning with a non-green state should simply be included in the risk/reward equation. If you're not ready to potentially die if you fail your attack - you shouldn't have attacked.

But as a counterbalance to that I'd want to have several respawn point choices and a shorter purple state timer.

Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »

I disagree with any such protection, because respawning with a non-green state should simply be included in the risk/reward equation. If you're not ready to potentially die if you fail your attack - you shouldn't have attacked.

But as a counterbalance to that I'd want to have several respawn point choices and a shorter purple state timer.

I'm up in the air about how long combatant state should last pending testing it out, but as far as multiple respawn points goes there should definitely be multiple options, as long as these options don't allow graveyard hopping easily across the map.

Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »

I disagree with any such protection, because respawning with a non-green state should simply be included in the risk/reward equation. If you're not ready to potentially die if you fail your attack - you shouldn't have attacked.

But as a counterbalance to that I'd want to have several respawn point choices and a shorter purple state timer.

But players shouldn't be exposed to FPKs on a respawn point, it's not gonna be fun. And you die also in PVE, not only PVP.

Otr

I would prefer respawn points to be protected by guards rather than using artificial rules like "invulnerability" in an area.

Otr wrote: »

I would prefer respawn points to be protected by guards rather than using artificial rules like "invulnerability" in an area.

You mean real players guards ? Coz Npc is also artificial.

Otr

Myosotys wrote: »

Otr wrote: »

I would prefer respawn points to be protected by guards rather than using artificial rules like "invulnerability" in an area.

You mean real players guards ? Coz Npc is also artificial.

Real players are also artificial unless they find a way to teleport into the game itself.
What I mean is that solution can use ingame tools which preserve immersion and show you the rules of the game as rules of the in-game world. Is like the diegetic UI vs buttons and popups.

So NPC guards should be able to create a safe area.
Also I think the NPC guards should not be invulnerable, but killing them should give corruption.

Myosotys wrote: »

But players shouldn't be exposed to FPKs on a respawn point, it's not gonna be fun. And you die also in PVE, not only PVP.

Dunno what FPK is.

If you die in pve then you die green. If someone wants to PK you at the respawn point - they'll do that no matter what you do (well, unless you outrun them).

Also, depending on the respawn options, how would that theoretical PKer even know where to wait for you. And if every damn possible respawn point is overtaken by a PKer - the game has way bigger issues than just respawn rules.

Noaani

Something that is probably pertinent to this discussion that the OP probably should have included is the reason why some games have this kind of mechanic.

In a number of MMORPG's (generally those not built with open world PvP in mind), it isn't unusal for your character to technically spawn in to the game world several seconds before you actually have control of them. It is a state basically the same as what your character will be in if you alt+f4 out of the game - your character is still in the game to be attacked, there is just no one controlling it.

If this is proven to be something that players can exploit, recoding something as fundamental as how a creature is spawned in to the world is not really a good idea (by the time the game is playable, this is something that should be locked down). Thus, a number of games got around this by making characters immune to PvP for some period once respawned.

Archeage had an immunity until you moved far enough from the respawn.

Some games have respawn points only accessable by your own faction - this obviously wouldn't work for Ashes.

I remember seeing one game in which you were given control of the camera and movement first, and the character was added a few seconds later - this worked well but I can't remember the game (it was not a popular game). It's one of the few games I saw that dealth with this issue at the point of spawning in, rather than having to create some sort of immunity.

A game like L2 would have had some sort of either work around or means of fixing this same issue. I have no idea what it was, but if it didn't have one then the only thing I would have heard about the game from 2004 when I first heard about it up until being on these forums when I came across the first people I had ever met that claimed to enjoy it would be "shit game, you get killed while you aren't even spawned in".

So, I would argue that Ashes needs something. Further, I would argue that Steven knows this, and has already implemented it (it is a fairly basic thing).

Noaani

Otr wrote: »

I would prefer respawn points to be protected by guards rather than using artificial rules like "invulnerability" in an area.

I'm not a fan of this, as all it does is put a cost on controlling the respawn point. The idea should be to outright prevent you from being able to attack a character that is not yet placed in the hands of their player, not give you a cost for doing so.

An artificial system is by far the best thing to use for a situation like this.

Noaani wrote: »

A game like L2 would have had some sort of either work around or means of fixing this same issue. I have no idea what it was, but if it didn't have one then the only thing I would have heard about the game from 2004 when I first heard about it up until being on these forums when I came across the first people I had ever met that claimed to enjoy it would be "shit game, you get killed while you aren't even spawned in".

The main respawn option was "to village", which means 'into a safe zone". But L2 relied on TPs and players didn't drop anything, so this respawn method doesn't work.

But you could be resurrected and your state would remain, which is why I prefer if the same was true in Ashes.

Also, flag timer counted down even if you were lying on the ground as a corpse, so those who didn't want to stand up flagged would usually just wait it out as a corpse.

As for load-camping, L2 had that. War enemies would TP spawn camp people and kill them before the victim would load in. But nowadays loading times are faster, mainly because games require ssd to run properly in the first place. But if Intrepid see that the load times are too long, I'd be fine with a 1-2s protection to account for that, but nothing more.

Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »

Myosotys wrote: »

But players shouldn't be exposed to FPKs on a respawn point, it's not gonna be fun. And you die also in PVE, not only PVP.

Dunno what FPK is.

If you die in pve then you die green. If someone wants to PK you at the respawn point - they'll do that no matter what you do (well, unless you outrun them).

Also, depending on the respawn options, how would that theoretical PKer even know where to wait for you. And if every damn possible respawn point is overtaken by a PKer - the game has way bigger issues than just respawn rules.

FPK = Free PK = Kind of toxic PvP with player who want to kill for no specific reason. With the best corruption system ever, we all know there will still be FPK. Let's tell I want to Fpk someone then it's easy to wait at a spawn point. I make 2 or 3 kills then I go to clean my corruption. And maybe I'll get some loots or mats the same time.

That's why I think there should be some mechanism to avoid to be a target at a respawn point.

Noaani wrote: »

Archeage had an immunity until you moved far enough from the respawn.

I'd prefer a short timer (30 sec with immunity + invisibility) than immunity depending on the location arround the spawn point. Otherwise there will be full of Afk people.

Noaani

Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

A game like L2 would have had some sort of either work around or means of fixing this same issue. I have no idea what it was, but if it didn't have one then the only thing I would have heard about the game from 2004 when I first heard about it up until being on these forums when I came across the first people I had ever met that claimed to enjoy it would be "shit game, you get killed while you aren't even spawned in".

The main respawn option was "to village", which means 'into a safe zone". But L2 relied on TPs and players didn't drop anything, so this respawn method doesn't work.

But you could be resurrected and your state would remain, which is why I prefer if the same was true in Ashes.

Also, flag timer counted down even if you were lying on the ground as a corpse, so those who didn't want to stand up flagged would usually just wait it out as a corpse.

As for load-camping, L2 had that. War enemies would TP spawn camp people and kill them before the victim would load in. But nowadays loading times are faster, mainly because games require ssd to run properly in the first place. But if Intrepid see that the load times are too long, I'd be fine with a 1-2s protection to account for that, but nothing more.

So, for the most part, L2 had safe zones around it's respawn points.

Resurrecting is handled differently (usually) than respawning. It's more of a change in state of the character, as opposed to removal and respawning of it.

I'm of the opinion that putting a limit on the protection here is asking for complaints (valid complaints) from people that just fall outside of that limit for what ever reason. Because respawning is (or should be) client, server and network, the notion that there could be delays of a few seconds in some unfortunate situations is a given. Rather than building a system to guarantee complaints in those situation, the best idea is to build a system that accounts for them.

This is why I am of the opinion that the best solution is that you gain control of your camera (pointed directly down) and movement when you respawn in, but your character itself doesn't respawn in for 2 seconds after you start moving.

Myosotys wrote: »

FPK = Free PK = Kind of toxic PvP with player who want to kill for no specific reason. With the best corruption system ever, we all know there will still be FPK. Let's tell I want to Fpk someone then it's easy to wait at a spawn point. I make 2 or 3 kills then I go to clean my corruption. And maybe I'll get some loots or mats the same time.

That's why I think there should be some mechanism to avoid to be a target at a respawn point.

If spawn points are static and well-known - you won't be able to even touch your second victim, because you'll get called out and taken out. And this is not even touching on any BHs in the vicinity.

Also, I'd imagine that any respawn point will be way closer to a node than to any strong mobs. And only the strong mobs would give you enough xp within a short amount of time to clear your corruption (and that's only if you're on your 1 PK). So if you're respawn camping people - you'll get hunted waaay before you can remove your corruption.

Noaani wrote: »

This is why I am of the opinion that the best solution is that you gain control of your camera (pointed directly down) and movement when you respawn in, but your character itself doesn't respawn in for 2 seconds after you start moving.

This is in a way the same thing I said I'd be fine with, so whichever is easier for Intrepid to do - they should do that.

unknownsystemerror

As for most things there is a mechanic already planned. Gotta get more wiki fu boys and girls.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Respawn_points

unknownsystemerror wrote: »

As for most things there is a mechanic already planned. Gotta get more wiki fu boys and girls.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Respawn_points

Nothing on this page answers to my questions.

Depraved

just stay dead until purple is gone xD
The protection wont do much, other than let you load everyone who is attacking you. after that, if you are being camped and you are purple, you will still die as soon as you move or the protection is gone.

Aszkalon

Depraved wrote: »

just stay dead until purple is gone xD

Imagine You have nothing really to lose in your Pockets, as in Mats which drop when You get killed,

and You can "choose" whetever You die as a Purple Player to one or several Gankers - or as a green Person. I safely say we all know which would be funnier, wouldn't it ?

Okay we might lose "MORE EXP" if we die as "green Players", as in Punishment for dying as green is higher,

but the Gankers will pile more and more Corruption every single time.

Noaani wrote: »

Archeage had an immunity until you moved far enough from the respawn.

Aszkalon wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

just stay dead until purple is gone xD

Imagine You have nothing really to lose in your Pockets, as in Mats which drop when You get killed,

and You can "choose" whetever You die as a Purple Player to one or several Gankers - or as a green Person. I safely say we all know which would be funnier, wouldn't it ?

Okay we might lose "MORE EXP" if we die as "green Players", as in Punishment for dying as green is higher,

but the Gankers will pile more and more Corruption every single time.

There will be some occasional gankers. You go to a populated area, you wait at the spawn point, you frag and you go to clean your corruption. And do it again after few hours of few days.

With the high population of the servers, some areas gonna be gank hell without specific mechanics to avoid it.

Mag7spy

You shouldnt be attacked at a respawn period, that sets up guild decs to farm people on respawn. It isnt any kind of meaningful pvp except trying to make someone log off.

Texas

You should respawn green with war flags disabled for ~90 secs. Same thing for any load-in point.

Mag7spy wrote: »

You shouldnt be attacked at a respawn period, that sets up guild decs to farm people on respawn. It isnt any kind of meaningful pvp except trying to make someone log off.

We agree on that be it is exactly this point that some players try to do. I saw this in every single PvP MMO I played : Having fun of making others rage quit.

Texas wrote: »

You should respawn green with war flags disabled for ~90 secs. Same thing for any load-in point.

Any source ?

Texas

No source. That's just what I would do. I don't think anything else is needed as long as corruption system works.

Texas wrote: »

No source. That's just what I would do. I don't think anything else is needed as long as corruption system works.

Yeah agree. Immunity + invisibility for few seconds would be fair. 90 sec is a bit much. I'd like 30 sec.

Texas wrote: »

You should respawn green with war flags disabled for ~90 secs. Same thing for any load-in point.

I don't hate the idea honestly. But the time would have to be relative to how long it'd take to get back to a potential fight happening between warring players. That way you can't necessarily pile unflagged players into a fight unchecked.

Mag7spy wrote: »

You shouldnt be attacked at a respawn period, that sets up guild decs to farm people on respawn. It isnt any kind of meaningful pvp except trying to make someone log off.

It'd absolutely be a viable tactic to delay respawns trying to get back to an objective you are fighting them for. But if you're just spawn camping to ruin somebodies day, thats griefing.

I would argue potentially making a small area of the initial respawn point a safezone for fresh spawns to allow fresh spawns a moment to collect themselves before reengaging. But the benefit would have to be removed as soon as they leave the zone, also only last a finite amount of time while within the zone, and not be able to be reapplied by returning to the zone in any way besides respawning after death.

Night Wings

I personally like how world of warcraft did it where you can run back to your body and respawn within range or pay a spirit healer and take a loss in durability and have a debuff for X amount of time. World of warcraft also had factions alliance and horde so when one player from a faction died that faction would have there own individual Spirit healer points that are different from the respawn points the other faction had.

WIKI says "Corrupt players respawn at random locations in the vicinity of their death, not at regular spawn points."[3]

If they don't add the feature to run back to your body then they basically need more respawn points and be able to choose where to respawn to reduce a chances to encounter a griefer. Also I strongly believe they need to remove these little orbs that can be seen when alive

2560px-SS2022-12-02-Video-16%3A29.60.png

There not a lot of information from what I've seen or maybe I am missing something??? If a player is flagged purple or red when that player is killed they should be able to respawn as a green state regardless dying as a purple/red then having to literally wait to get uncorrupted even though you died is dumb and its unfair for the individuals that decided to take that risk just my two cents though.

Depraved

or just respawn back in town...

Night Wings

Depraved wrote: »

or just respawn back in town...

I feel like that could be used as a exploit instead of taking the time to get to a place /node just die and respawn, because its faster.