this is not okay

ashesfan2020

i have been a long time fan of ashes of creation, i soul heartedly believe in the project and like many here i want them to succeed, not just for a new mmo but because of the history behind the company, i respect the team and steven alot, however in the past months there has been some issues that have been brought to light that i can't help but make a post about.

firstly i would like to discuss pricing to test the alpha's, i understand that the price needs to be somewhat high because of the old packages pricing, however pricing a beta test at 120$ usd rules out an extremley large part of your audience, 120$ is alot more for some than it is for others and i think that it is extremley unfair to put a 120$ pay wall infront of a test that is being done to benefit your company, i think steven is really good in sales and when they tell us not to buy the packs i think it is just missleading when he knows people will spend the money.

the other issue i have it alpha 2 spot testing, this was stated in a live stream that 500 players selected at random, that all purchased the same 500$ alpha 1 package would have a chance to get into the spot tests, furthermore a further 500 players selected at random, would be chosen from the tests they did in alpha 1, it is now common knowledge that these are not selected at random, they are selected out of intrepids favorite guilds, mostly enveus, and this is not okay, im sure that people still waiting on their emails would love to know that their position has been given up because the big guilds get their members in before everyone else that all paid the same price tag to test this game, this should have never happened, intrepids money grab has been ridiculous since day 1 and if you are going to charge 500$ to sell an alpha 1 package atleast be fair with the spot testing roll outs in alpha 2

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bloodprophet

I can't help but wonder how many of these shiny new accounts creating the same thread over and over are just internet trolls?

AyeveeGaming11

bloodprophet wrote: »

I can't help but wonder how many of these shiny new accounts creating the same thread over and over are just internet trolls?

forums trench pvp lol

ariatras

ashesfan2020 wrote: »

i have been a long time fan of ashes of creation, i soul heartedly believe in the project and like many here i want them to succeed, not just for a new mmo but because of the history behind the company, i respect the team and steven alot, however in the past months there has been some issues that have been brought to light that i can't help but make a post about.

firstly i would like to discuss pricing to test the alpha's, i understand that the price needs to be somewhat high because of the old packages pricing, however pricing a beta test at 120$ usd rules out an extremley large part of your audience, 120$ is alot more for some than it is for others and i think that it is extremley unfair to put a 120$ pay wall infront of a test that is being done to benefit your company, i think steven is really good in sales and when they tell us not to buy the packs i think it is just missleading when he knows people will spend the money.

the other issue i have it alpha 2 spot testing, this was stated in a live stream that 500 players selected at random, that all purchased the same 500$ alpha 1 package would have a chance to get into the spot tests, furthermore a further 500 players selected at random, would be chosen from the tests they did in alpha 1, it is now common knowledge that these are not selected at random, they are selected out of intrepids favorite guilds, mostly enveus, and this is not okay, im sure that people still waiting on their emails would love to know that their position has been given up because the big guilds get their members in before everyone else that all paid the same price tag to test this game, this should have never happened, intrepids money grab has been ridiculous since day 1 and if you are going to charge 500$ to sell an alpha 1 package atleast be fair with the spot testing roll outs in alpha 2

I appreciate your passion and dedication to the Ashes of Creation project. It's clear that you have a deep respect for the team at Intrepid Studios and their vision, which is something many of us share. That said, I'd like to offer a different perspective on some of the issues you've raised.
1. Pricing of Alpha and Beta Access

The pricing structure for testing phases is indeed a contentious topic. It's important to consider that game development, particularly for a project as ambitious as Ashes of Creation, is an expensive and resource-intensive process. The pricing tiers were initially set based on early supporter packages, and while $120 for beta access might seem steep, it’s crucial to remember that these funds contribute to the ongoing development of the game. It's also worth noting that purchasing these packages is entirely optional, and access to the final product will be available without the need for these higher-priced tiers.

Steven and the team have been transparent about the fact that these packages are a way to support the game’s development rather than a simple paywall. While it’s true that the price may exclude some from participating in the beta, it's also a way to ensure that those who are truly invested in the game’s success are the ones participating in its early stages. This helps create a more focused and productive testing environment.
2. Selection for Alpha 2 Spot Testing

Regarding the selection process for Alpha 2 spot testing, I understand the frustration around the perceived lack of randomness in choosing participants. However, it's important to recognize that testing in the early stages of game development is not just about giving everyone a chance to play but about gathering valuable feedback that can guide the development process. Intrepid may choose participants from established guilds because these groups have a proven track record of providing structured and constructive feedback, which is critical in these testing phases.

While the selection process may not appear entirely random, it’s likely designed to balance the need for quality feedback with the desire to include a diverse range of testers. That said, transparency from Intrepid on how selections are made would certainly help in addressing these concerns and ensuring that all supporters feel their contributions are valued.
Conclusion

In conclusion While there are valid concerns regarding pricing and selection processes, it's also important to consider the broader context in which these decisions are made. The team at Intrepid Studios is likely doing what they believe is best for the long-term success of Ashes of Creation. Constructive feedback, like yours, is invaluable in helping them refine their approach and continue improving the development process. I hope this perspective helps in considering the complexity of these issues and that we can all continue to support the project in a positive and constructive manner.

Shadock

ashesfan2020 wrote: »

i have been a long time fan of ashes of creation, i soul heartedly believe in the project and like many here i want them to succeed, not just for a new mmo but because of the history behind the company, i respect the team and steven alot, however in the past months there has been some issues that have been brought to light that i can't help but make a post about.

firstly i would like to discuss pricing to test the alpha's, i understand that the price needs to be somewhat high because of the old packages pricing, however pricing a beta test at 120$ usd rules out an extremley large part of your audience, 120$ is alot more for some than it is for others and i think that it is extremley unfair to put a 120$ pay wall infront of a test that is being done to benefit your company, i think steven is really good in sales and when they tell us not to buy the packs i think it is just missleading when he knows people will spend the money.

the other issue i have it alpha 2 spot testing, this was stated in a live stream that 500 players selected at random, that all purchased the same 500$ alpha 1 package would have a chance to get into the spot tests, furthermore a further 500 players selected at random, would be chosen from the tests they did in alpha 1, it is now common knowledge that these are not selected at random, they are selected out of intrepids favorite guilds, mostly enveus, and this is not okay, im sure that people still waiting on their emails would love to know that their position has been given up because the big guilds get their members in before everyone else that all paid the same price tag to test this game, this should have never happened, intrepids money grab has been ridiculous since day 1 and if you are going to charge 500$ to sell an alpha 1 package atleast be fair with the spot testing roll outs in alpha 2

Too many people on this forum will defend anything these devs do. They're allergic to any constructive criticism. You are not the only one who thinks the actions of Intrepid are self-destructive at best and malicious at worst. No wonder this game is getting a Star Citizen 2.0 rep.

At the end of the day though all we can do is voice concerns loudly and withstand the army of NPCs shouting "tHeY hAvE tO mAkE mOnEy sOmEhOw."

Shadowrogue

Most people do not understand that funding needs to be present to produce a game of this magnitude. They can't produce it for free. The game is not out yet and is in testing for some of the game functions, you do not have to purchase the right to test the game. Let's call this what it is, investment in a game you would like to see succeed and be a part of which includes feedback. This is an investment not ownership of the game. Thats what this cost represents your willingness to invest in a game you believe in. I say believe in because if you do invest by purchasing the Alpha keys you have some skin in the game and want to see its success. So don't complain about the Alpha key price you either want to invest or do not. Don't invest and wait to play if you just want to try it and be a non-shareholder investor. If you want a voice in the feedback of the game, then it requires an investment.

In this modern time, we have entitlement in which people want everything their way, free or low cost and they make comments and complaints because they want instant gratification. They do not understand the need for those to invest to make these things happen to bring to fruition the game they demand. These are the same people who are going to blow through content and leave the game not staying long term. Doesn't matter the features or how much content there is or updates they will leave due to instant gratification and leave as soon as they are max level and have done everything at least once.

Renathras

Shadock wrote: »

Too many people on this forum will defend anything these devs do. They're allergic to any constructive criticism.

LOTS of complaints (the SAME complaints over and over again) about the price of something completely optional that they HAD decided not to have any more availability on is not "constructive criticism".

Too many people call trolling and being a doomer or even outright harassment "constructive criticism" when it isn't. It's like a bully that beats someone up but, when caught, says "I was just playin'! It's not like I REALLY hurt 'em..."

Further, people offering COUNTER ARGUMENTS is not "defending anything these devs do". There are things these devs do I dislike, and I will critique, but not joining in YOUR critique/harassment does not mean "defending anything" they do.

There's a difference between a white knight and a rational person offering legitimate counterarguments that you just don't want to hear because you don't actually have arguments to counter theirs.

Taaku

I mean... If people wanna waste THEIR money playing an incomplete game that is THEIR choice. Personally sounds dumb to me cuz that means less magic on actual opening day, but whatever.

Shadock

Shadowrogue wrote: »

Most people do not understand that funding needs to be present to produce a game of this magnitude. They can't produce it for free. The game is not out yet and is in testing for some of the game functions, you do not have to purchase the right to test the game. Let's call this what it is, investment in a game you would like to see succeed and be a part of which includes feedback. This is an investment not ownership of the game. Thats what this cost represents your willingness to invest in a game you believe in. I say believe in because if you do invest by purchasing the Alpha keys you have some skin in the game and want to see its success. So don't complain about the Alpha key price you either want to invest or do not. Don't invest and wait to play if you just want to try it and be a non-shareholder investor. If you want a voice in the feedback of the game, then it requires an investment.

In this modern time, we have entitlement in which people want everything their way, free or low cost and they make comments and complaints because they want instant gratification. They do not understand the need for those to invest to make these things happen to bring to fruition the game they demand. These are the same people who are going to blow through content and leave the game not staying long term. Doesn't matter the features or how much content there is or updates they will leave due to instant gratification and leave as soon as they are max level and have done everything at least once.

It's plain to see that a company needs money to create a product such as an MMORPG. Idk what "most people" you're referring to, but you must be living in an echo chamber or spending too much time in fantasy worlds my friend if you believe that.

The second paragraph sounds more like a boomer rant about millennials that isn't worth addressing further.

Tetsusaiga

Due to the way my work life balance is, I've not been too active in the forums but do visit and read the news. It was surprising to see the pay to test model. First time I've ever seen this in any game. I've concluded that its probably due to the fact that they have enough testers. I bought the last pack offered in 2023 Dec and have a Alpha 2 key. I'll wait and see if I get access in October.

I'm also following Star Citizen development since 2012 and have over 10k in it. Their way of raising money for game development is phenomenal. It would be nice to have some unique skins, title or mounts for $120 along with the alpha key and not just a one of key. But still their game their rules and I respect that. They have enough people and probably more on the sidelines waiting to test the game.

wakkytabbaky

the way i understood it is they took the top played time / feedback people from A1 and threw in 500 random A1 players as well, while still adding more and more A1 testers to A2 pre test over time.

steven should honestly just be open about how much each alpha server is going to cost per month then the math will come out showing that the money from these new key sales wont even cover the server costs for the entire alpha. the key cost was to help offset the server costs, its still gonna cost em to keep them running its why they arent persistent to start off

Otr

ashesfan2020 wrote: »

firstly i would like to discuss pricing to test the alpha's, i understand that the price needs to be somewhat high because of the old packages pricing, however pricing a beta test at 120$ usd rules out an extremley large part of your audience,

it is alpha not beta.
My opinion is that to allow an extremely large part of the audience to test should be possible by charging them the exact price needed to open, run and maintain servers.
And because they want to pay the minimum possible and not support development at all with money, should not get any persistence but should start with max level and equipped with best gear and get access only to specific content developers need to be tested. These servers should be separate from the rest and wiped every month.

Noaani

So, it seems people can't read between the lines.

Purchased alpha access is very much just being able to look at the game early, in a state where bugs should be expected. The only real testing that I can see Intrepid getting from the large scale alpha testing is in relation to server stability and performance.

The actual alpha testing - the tests that most other games run in a "friends and family" type manner (where they bring in people to test that actually understand how to test and how to give feedback, etc) is still being done in the same manner it is done in every other MMORPG ever.

Actual alpha testing needs dozens of concurrent players at the most - thousands of players simply are not alpha testing.

abc0815

"The cost behind Alpha Two access accounts for realm and CDN costs associated with a live service product. While this is not a finished game, it will be a live service that we will be updating on a 6 week basis as we build out the rest of the game's content and features."
https://ashesofcreation.com/news/2024-08-18-alpha-two-roadmap-and-ama

Good luck with the running a alpha and working to extend the game. Easy guys. Don't worry

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