DUELS 1vs1 2vs2 3vs3 - (Plz add them at the very beginning of PHASE 1 of A2)

Hello Glorious Intrepid Studios (and AoC community),

I'm here to give a feedback on what I learned about the last AMA concerning DUELS, and create this discussion to check if others think the same.

I heard the they will available only in PHASE 3.

I REALLY REALLY HOPE you change direction.
DUELS are in my opinion (like the ARENAS) the faster way to test Archetypes to provide PVP feedback, and testing the whole character when we talk about scaling, stats or skills.
I think any of us will test large scale pvp and lawless zones, but to test our archetype, even in a group perspective, i think duels (and "group" duels like 2vs2) are the BEST choice.

Thank you very much,
Helloooooo!!!

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Ludullu

The game is built around parties and big scale fights. Early tests are not about pvp balancing, or even class balancing.

There's no reason to have duels when we'll already have flagging and lawless zones. Wanna see how your unfinished, unbalanced, unbuilt (cause gear won't be even near to any kind of balance) archetype matches up against another samely-designed archetype? Go fight literally anywhere.

ReLamas

While I understand the desire for 1v1, 2v2, and 3v3 duels as a quick and effective way to test archetypes and balance in Ashes of Creation, I’m personally not a big fan of small-scale combat in an MMORPG context. The main reason is that focusing too much on these smaller formats often requires intense class balancing that could detract from the game's core experience, which, for me, lies in large-scale group battles.

In a game as expansive and community-driven as Ashes of Creation, the essence should be in how classes synergize and perform in larger, more complex scenarios rather than in isolated duels. Balancing classes for small-scale duels might lead to compromises that affect large-scale encounters, where the true spirit of an MMORPG shines through.

That said, if duels are added, they could serve as a useful tool for players to learn and refine their class mechanics, but I hope the primary focus remains on group and large-scale content.

Mag7spy

RayKing wrote: »

Hello Glorious Intrepid Studios (and AoC community),

I'm here to give a feedback on what I learned about the last AMA concerning DUELS, and create this discussion to check if others think the same.

I heard the they will available only in PHASE 3.

I REALLY REALLY HOPE you change direction.
DUELS are in my opinion (like the ARENAS) the faster way to test Archetypes to provide PVP feedback, and testing the whole character when we talk about scaling, stats or skills.
I think any of us will test large scale pvp and lawless zones, but to test our archetype, even in a group perspective, i think duels (and "group" duels like 2vs2) are the BEST choice.

Thank you very much,
Helloooooo!!!

What exactly are you wanting to test in particular with pvp. What set elements?

Liniker

I tried brother... I've been asking for duels ever since A1 ended by 2021... they said its only coming in phase 3

RayKing

I agree with some points the guys above said.
However, i think the most of the time you won’t play in a group +5 member. For example maybe you go out the city to gather something for your profession, I need (and I want) to know if my archetype can resist a ganking or a 1vs2, even to know and to choice what archetype and what skills better fit with my playstyle, but it’s a waste of time going out and waiting for someone that kills you and waiting for respawn, also if u test that with a friend in pvp combatant flag.

From a studio perspective I suppose a “right click + duel” button on a friend is not a long thing to add, and I can test my ability to prepare myself for the world outside…like a training for my alter ego. It’s cool even i ln a roleplaying game style.

I prefer small skirmishes rather than giga battles, but that’s not the point.

Yes, the archetypes are unbalanced.
Yes, it’s not the time to provide feedback for that maybe.
Yes, the archetype are studied for group balance and not 1vs1.

I only want to do multiple consecutive test of my build with a friend, without waiting respawn times…

Ludullu

RayKing wrote: »

I only want to do multiple consecutive test of my build with a friend, without waiting respawn times…

And this is not just "rmb + duel" functionality. Intrepid would need to exclude 2 players from anyone else on the server, so that no one else can attack you. They'd need to control your hp/mp/stamina, so that it resets properly. They'd need to add a "0hp =/= death" function, so that you don't experience death penalties. And doing all of this for shit like 3v3, or let alone unbalanced sides, would require even more work.

All of this needless bullshit would take time away from proper required testing, while you would only do "multiple consecutive tests" and forget about this function.

We have flagging. What you want to test is flagging, because that is the real world experience you'll be having on realease. Go test that and give Intrepid feedback on it. Not some duels bs.

Eptackt

It's fine if some of you people don't like small scale PvP and we all know the balance for 1v1 duels is not going to be there. There will be for certain certain builds that will excel in 1v1 combat and many other that won't, but that should prevent us that are interested in this to test it up and have fun with it right? Sure it's not the best to give feedback to balancing classes, but it for sure will work to report bug fixes or discuss on how certain effects, debuffs, etc. affect both PvP and PvE.

So why not add it? It will add to the fun, and to the testing aswel.

Ludullu

Eptackt wrote: »

So why not add it? It will add to the fun, and to the testing aswel.

Because you can already test it. Both flagging and lawless ones will be in Phase 1. Go and test pvp as much as you want. We don't need devs wasting time on useless features that already have a planned alternative that work just fine. And not only that, but the currently planned system would be the proper test of what will be happening in the game, which would help you give Intrepid better feedback.

Lodrig

OP is very much mistaken. Their is going to be plenty of combat testing without dueling.

End thead.

Apok

Dueling should be an easy system to implement. All you have to do is make it effect parties, then you can have everything from 1v1 to max alliance vs max alliance

did this often in New World we would gather around and have duels we bet on, if enough people show up we did team duels too

Ludullu

Apok wrote: »

Dueling should be an easy system to implement. All you have to do is make it effect parties, then you can have everything from 1v1 to max alliance vs max alliance

Intrepid are already behind schedule. They're already in crunch for the A2 release. They already have a plan of what they wanna test and are crunching to have that plan ready for A2 release (and it doesn't include duels). Yet you want to give them even more work that is compeltely outside of their plan...

If party-wide duels were so easy to implement or was beneficial to the testing that will be done in the first 2 phases - Intrepid would've added it to those phases, along all the other pvp methods. But that is obviously not true, because it's not in the plans.

Noaani

RayKing wrote: »

DUELS are in my opinion (like the ARENAS) the faster way to test Archetypes to provide PVP feedback, and testing the whole character when we talk about scaling, stats or skills.

Duels are an unrealistic testing environment, and so produce unrealistic results.

If you test classes PvP capability in duels, all you will know is how each class does in a situation where the numbers are equal, and you know who you are fighting before hand. In an open world PvP setting, you don't have that information, and so you want your PvP build to be based around not having that information.

Duels can *at best* give you a portion of the picture as to how a class performs in PvP. They can show you that portion fairly quickly, but it is still only a portion. Far better to get people used to the idea of testing builds in open PvP imo, so they can get a real picture of how each performs.

Apok

I love how people act like dueling is gonna take away from their "core gameplay loop" like, get over it carebears. People wanna hang out outside of town and fight eachother, it's how people who actually try to be good at the game practice and fine tune their kits. it's pretty common to see the same two people spar by dueling eachother over and over.

And you already have all the systems for flagging people for pvp with restrictions like x team vs y team, it's would be nothing more than a copy and paste job

Seriously how do you know it's an unrealistic testing environment, go look at the paladin whose team does world first clears, he sits in front of training dummies for hours practicing his kit. hes got a whole youtube video on how to be #1

Now if the number 1 guy in the game is telling you training dummies, how can a real person not mean anything as far as practice tuning for PvP

Liniker

Fun fact for those that say duels doesn't matter, and are unrealistic:

If you don't practice PvP dueling at least a few hours every day, you have Zero chances of surviving actual open world PvP against someone that does or against a group with people that do practice.

Ludullu

And for all of you saying "we need duels" - WE ALREADY HAVE THEM. We'll have flagging from Phase 1. Go fucking fight each other. Why do you need some special mechanic just so you're protected against anyone who might wanna mess with you?

Are you some weak PvErs? Pathetic...

Hinotori

Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »

And for all of you saying "we need duels" - WE ALREADY HAVE THEM. We'll have flagging from Phase 1. Go fucking fight each other. Why do you need some special mechanic just so you're protected against anyone who might wanna mess with you?

Are you some weak PvErs? Pathetic...

Holy shit shots fired!

Duellist brown nosers get BTFO'd

Mag7spy

I see my question was never answered

Dueling isn't needed at the start, game is not going to be balanced for things atm. In the future for people serious on pvping dueling will be needed. AoC is not at that state yet.

Any argument for dueling right now is silly as all that information is going to be pointless for early stages of alpha.

Before dueling you need to convince the devs to do serious balance patches on the game and make that a prio, which wouldn't even make sense right now lol....

SmileGurney

Assuming this corruption chart is still accurate, as long as you agree for a duel, you shouldn't get corruption when fighting each other, even without an official duel feature?

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Player_corruption

BRAD_AoC

Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »

The game is built around parties and big scale fights. Early tests are not about pvp balancing, or even class balancing.

Duels really help to test abilities and player to player interactions in an isolated environment. If 10 people are fighting and you experience a bug, you'll never be able to pinpoint the origin of that bug because of the amount of variables involved.

Yes, the game is built around parties and big scale fights, but parties and big scale fights make it pretty much impossible to identity combat issues, which is why Duels should be a huge priority for the devs to implement. Duels could heavily elevate the quality of reports coming through and on a side note also be a fun little activity when you run out of content.

Ludullu

BRAD_AoC wrote: »

Yes, the game is built around parties and big scale fights, but parties and big scale fights make it pretty much impossible to identity combat issues, which is why Duels should be a huge priority for the devs to implement. Duels could heavily elevate the quality of reports coming through and on a side note also be a fun little activity when you run out of content.

None of this says "we want people to test how our unbalanced, broken, unfinished, not-yet-fully-designed, classless archetypes behave".

Also, as I keep FUCKING SCREAMING, we already have "duels" in Phase 1. You fucking hit someone and they hit you back. That's it. There's your duel. Test useless shit that devs don't need to your hearts content.

Ffs people.

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