About Guilds, Taxes & RMT

I really hope the Ashes team has deeply thought about the rewards guilds are going to receive for owning Castles and other large scale guild activities. Coming from New World, where strong guilds collecting millions and millions of gold passively by owning settlements and then selling that gold via RMT to goldselling sites is extremely common, I'm worried Ashes of Creation is moving into the same direction.

Like any other MMO, Ashes of Creation will have to have a solid plan in place to combat RMT and that starts by avoiding to implement systems that directly incentivize RMT like passive Tax income in a tradable form. I cannot stress how important it is to be very strategic about the reward structure for those large scale events as it can quickly undermine the economy if done wrong.

In essence, guilds should never be rewarded with anything that can be freely traded with other players as that's inevitably going to lead to the exact same issues New World was facing. Besides that, I also think Intrepid needs to take a really firm stance against RMT right from the start, and that's for both goldsellers and goldbuyers alike.

A ton of other MMOs repeatedly make the same mistake of only handing out very minor short term bans for goldbuying and often not even stripping the bought gold from the player's account. In my opinion, anybody that buys gold should be permanently banned from the game without any warning. Although that might seem harsh, it's the only way to truly disincentivize players from buying gold as - let's be honest - you'll never be able to fully prevent goldsellers from doing what they're doing.

I think if both of these aspects get considered when moving towards the launch of the game, I think we're in a decent place to maintain the integrity of the economy. Thanks for listening to my Ted Talk!

-Brad

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Comments

Kilion

I think when it comes to any form of Node ownership (be it as a Mayor, King or Queen), the guild has no free reign over the finances. Neither Mayor nor Castle owner can just syphon the gold out of the Nodes treasury directly. Maybe they could do so with public commissions to a degree, but those are public so anyone can accept the comission and collect the reward, making depletion of public funds quite difficult.

The benefits of controlling a Castle Node according to the Wiki are:

trophies
access to events and abilities for citizens of the castle and the 3 vassal nodes
control over regions in the vicinity (if I understand that correctly)

So those all seem to be either directly bound to the guild, castle or node, not very materialistic.

Regarding RMT: I hope and am optimistic that Intrepids policy of hiring primarily (exclusively?) gamers of the genre will mean that they will crack down hard on anyone who tries to break the confines of the game to make it P2W. I am fine with them reading and analysing all chatlogs to identify anyone trying to make deals for RMT, scan behavior patterns of players to identify bots etc and permaban the bank accounts form making transactions with Intrepid. I have zero respect for people who refuse to accept that the game is played WITHIN the game, not with leveraging external resources.

Ludullu

Kilion missed this, so I'll add it.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Castle_taxes
The remainder of tax income can be used by the guild for whatever they want.[2][8]

So yes, there's a direct way to get money for the guild from the castle rn. And it's there to create political pressure on both the owners and the potential attackers of the castle.

Balancing and overall design of this feature (and anything related to it) will be tested in A2.

tautau

I agree that both those who buy gold and those who sell gold ought to receive a quick and permanent ban from the game, and any future IS products. Ban the IP address, credit card/Paypal/Etc. and whatever other identifier the tech savvy know of.

Perhaps an effigy of their character ought to be hanged in the nearby node/castle with a sign indicating they engaged in RMT and were banned forever. This would serve as a reminder and as a lesson to new players.

Arya_Yeshe

1this is the way, control the cast and bribe the mayors to put the taxes up to 100%

bloodprophet

I thought it was the same as node taxes. While can be spent on anything they want. I took to mean as anything for the castle and three vassal nodes and could not be withdrawn and taken by the guild members.

Maybe get clarification from Intrepid?

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Node_taxes

Tax revenue only goes toward funding node development. This cannot be withdrawn by the mayor or any other player.[14][7]

Otr

Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »

Kilion missed this, so I'll add it.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Castle_taxes
The remainder of tax income can be used by the guild for whatever they want.[2][8]

So yes, there's a direct way to get money for the guild from the castle rn. And it's there to create political pressure on both the owners and the potential attackers of the castle.

Balancing and overall design of this feature (and anything related to it) will be tested in A2.

And another one is

When castles change hands (following a siege), some taxes stay with the castle and some stay with the guild.[43]

bloodprophet wrote: »

I thought it was the same as node taxes. While can be spent on anything they want. I took to mean as anything for the castle and three vassal nodes and could not be withdrawn and taken by the guild members.

Maybe get clarification from Intrepid?

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Node_taxes

Tax revenue only goes toward funding node development. This cannot be withdrawn by the mayor or any other player.[14][7]

To tempt the castle owners to keep the money instead of spending it to benefit their peasants It is a necessary feature.
The game should be balanced so that being a greedy castle ruler to weaken the nodes.
Citizens should not allow such rulers to stay in power long time. They should go and destroy those caravans which transport the taxes (maybe those drop the taxes in form of gold too)

Ludullu

bloodprophet wrote: »

I thought it was the same as node taxes.

No, nodes are not castles.

Otr

Also the Castle ZoI does not overlap with Metro ZoI
Will be interesting to see what happens when two metros level up in the castle ZoI.

Ludullu

Otr wrote: »

Also the Castle ZoI does not overlap with Metro ZoI
Will be interesting to see what happens when two metros level up in the castle ZoI.

Unless Intrepid go out of their way to prevent this through internal design, I think the castle will be swimming in money

Definitely foresee mgeaguilds guilds forcing 2 metros to be within their castle's ZOI (well, that is if they can't just control a few castles).

Srixun

RMT is easy to beat in ideal. harder in execution.

Set aside an RMT hunt fund for employees (GM's)

Have the GM make a new char, gear it up, make it look normal. Then the GM buys gold from an RMT'er.
RMT trader is typically not the one farming, but. You take that RMT Trader, track who gave him the gold, or which accounts gave him the gold and you can find the whole nest of RMT'ers right there. Honestly its the only way to do it. No it would not be a good idea for players to do this. just staff.

As far as castle and limiting funds, I have high doubts it'll be "millions and millions" of gold. And if there wasn't gold there, you're removing some incentive to partake in this activity. The guild who risks it and fights for it and has to defend it should 100% get to use the gold how they like.

Taxing passive stuff under the ideal of RMT doesn't change a thing. Just like if Intrepid "Sold gold" themselves in packs. it would not even harm RMT in the slightest bit. Its just like a business. If the taxes on your company raise, the customer ends up paying for it. because you're gunna raise prices. RMT would just go up, but people who pay for RMT are still...going...to pay... for RMT.

The only way to honestly and decisively do this, is to have staffs engage in what I listed above. And RMT is hardly ever just gold. In Eve Online, they do a couple different things. Sell something on the market place for a wild amount, drop items space randomly, make a contract that looks like "oops"

A system should have a chain of custody for items, so if you see a track record of someone making a lot of dumps etc. you can trace it. We use a similar ideal in IT/Cybersecurity, UEBA. Monitor for specific use cases, and if a certain behavior happens over and over, then CHANCES ARE...

Steven, Intrepid. If yall want some volunteer help to help combat RMT, lemme know.

Arya_Yeshe

Everything should be freely traded

Srixun

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

Everything should be freely traded

Found another Eve Player. :P

George_Black

I dont like restrictions to trade and I dont like vendor currency systems.
Restricting /trade makes for a very boring, npc driven economy.

I prefer the risk of a few cheaters getting away with it, specially in a game as big as aoc. Cheaters wont affect people as much as in mmos with instanced pvp, in which you always have cheaters in your encounter because that's where pvp is cornered too.
Yes, I prefer that to yet another mmo in which you are rewarded with limiting tokens and forced into gameplay loops.

Having said all that, you are not bringing us any news whatsoever. After all these years we did not wait for NW to show us the dangers of RMT.
The Devs have said they will enforce punishments to cheaters. We dont need to know the details. They are aware of the issue.

I hope such suggestions about restricting trading between players will never be introduced. Never.

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