Resurrection during combat

So during the Dev stream, while the raid was fighting the dragon. Steven (and others) were resurrecting people who had died. I was wondering what everyone feels about resurrecting people mid fight? I know Steven had GM powers on, which made it appear to be much easier to do than it actually is, but i'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on it anyways.

My thought is that if you're going to allow people to be resurrected during combat, there are a couple of things to consider:

1. The cooldown of the resurrect ability. Should there be one? Should you be able to chain cast your rez if you have it?
2. Diminishing returns - Should there be a defined period of time that must elapse before you can accept another rez? (i.e. you must wait 30 seconds to be rezzed again after receiving a rez, with subsequent rezzes requiring more and more time.)

What are your thoughts?

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Depraved

i dont mind combat res in pve but I don't like it In pvp

Githal

Either like 30 min cd, With option from talents to make it for example having 2 charges.
Or to cost like 70% of max mana.

mfckingjoker

Of course you should be able to res mid fight, just make the cd of the skill like 30 sec - 1 min and reduce a little bit the cast time cuz it took so long to cast.

Smaashley

I don't mind rez. Guild Wars 2 actually has down state and it works pretty fine. It's like a second chance when you're down but can only use certain skills and once enemy finishes you, people have to be out of combat to rez you. Creates more opportunity of gameplay and strategy.

Korela

Resurrection of a single target is already quite slow and resource-intensive. If you do not speed up the casting by 3-5 times, then in PVP the you will never res anyone, since the cast can be interrupted. And even if the resurrection is somehow miraculously completed, this will not change the situation much, since the target will have almost no HP. The fun begins when one cleric can resurrect the entire raid with one button. Save your fears for mass resurrection.

patrick68794

during PvE good, during PvP bad. Unfortunately in a PvX game like Ashes that's going to be hard to balance. If they can make it nearly impossible to actually be able to cast a resurrection spell during PvP then I'd say that's good enough (especially since players can make the decision on who to focus on first and don't rely on aggro mechanics).

For PvE though, make it a risk for a healer to need to make a tactical decision on when to attempt it during combat but punishing someone to that extent that made potentially a single mistake isn't good design in my opinion and will lead to a lot of frustration for a lot of players that aren't hardocre players.

Ruerik

Resurrection should be a big deal.
Long cast, high cost, long cooldown

I am fine with it being able to done in combat but give it the intensive cost above. Making it a very high risk action.
Drain healers MP
Stuck in place healer, need to protect it
Can only do a few times per combat because of cooldown
Generally not practical in pvp for reasons above, but not impossible

Veeshan

I think they should add a small stacking debuff on rezzes like 3min duration of 5% stat reduction that stacks so each death you do less and and less dmg and fight become more challenging as people get rezzed.

as for Pvp it might not be so bad since it a long cast and it obvious when somone being rezzed with the tree animation so it fairly easily interuppted and if they do get it off they can be 1 tapped so have to wait and see in regard to pvp

BlackBrony

It takes like 10 seconds. In a PvP encounter thats like 10 min. If you waste 10 seconds rezzing someone you have already lost the fight, so I think it's pretty balance.
Also the rezzed players comes back with like 10% hp and without mana, that means that even rezzed theyre still useless.
So I think it's a pretty dope solution considering when you die you have to walk back a lot!

ralangorf

No it's perfectly fine as is. Inline with modern design. The dragon is not the only thing stopping rezzes. Tbh the 50 man raid behind you doing call outs about to rush your group is far more concerning and will stop nonstop rezzes (outside of water pvp)

Aszkalon

ralangorf wrote: »

No it's perfectly fine as is. Inline with modern design. The dragon is not the only thing stopping rezzes. Tbh the 50 man raid behind you doing call outs about to rush your group is far more concerning and will stop nonstop rezzes (outside of water pvp)

Better bring your A-Game then.

and with A-Game i mean Allies, Allies, ALLIES !!!

I can s~ooo see Guilds charge the Dragon with like 20 to 40 People,

while 50 People at every single Cardinal Point protect their fellow Guildmembers or fellow Allies from another Guild from every possible, rivalling Group that might want to come and snatch the Boss away.

Ludullu

I want combat rez, mass combat rez and combat rez scrolls. Abilities should have long cd, high cost and long cast time (with mass rez having ~30 min cd, if not hour). Mass rez should only apply to your party, not the guild/raid.

Scrolls should have an even longer cast time and should be crafted at a fairly high cost.

Spif

I'm in favor of rez being usable during combat. Also I think they have already said that rez scrolls will be a thing for other classes than Cleric. Pretty sure that there are higher level rezzes for Cleric that will bring you back with more resources (I forget the source)

Cleric might even get a faster casting Rez through augment or gear or whatever. If so, hopefully not too too quickly. ESO screwed their PvP balance by putting in sets and passives that allowed Templars to rez in 2 seconds, and they could start the channel in stealth

The long interruptable channel and high mana cost is a large enough downside for PvP. If you can control the area for 8-10 seconds you should be able to rez.

Ludullu

Spif wrote: »

(I forget the source)

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Resurrection_methods
Class-based resurrection abilities allow greater recovery of experience debt than resurrection scrolls.[1][2]

Yoh

I generally agree with the folks above. Resurrection should be slow, expensive, long CD, and the death penalty should be somewhat significant, esp for PvP. Death should always come at a cost, and I think the penalty should be the major dividing line between PvP and PvE. As should scale faster for PvP than PvE.

I would take a page out of Guild Wars. When you died, you got a 15% penalty to your HP and Energy/Mana, to a maximum of 60%, that you could work off by killing enemies and completing objectives. Or reset by going back to town.
Which isn't altogether that different from how Ashes is doing it, san the exact numbers.
You could shrug off 15% easy enough, 30% and now your hurting, 45% to 60% and you've entered a death spiral that is damn hard to recover from.
So I would say 10-15% for a PvE death, and a 20-25% for a PvP death.

Possibly you could have the cool down and maybe the cost be dependent on the level of death penalty of the target, increasing by the percentage of death penalty they have. Making it so that you just cannot revive your way out of a death spiral. Eventually you not even going to have enough max mana to cast the spell.

Noaani

Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »

I want combat rez, mass combat rez and combat rez scrolls. Abilities should have long cd, high cost and long cast time (with mass rez having ~30 min cd, if not hour). Mass rez should only apply to your party, not the guild/raid.

Scrolls should have an even longer cast time and should be crafted at a fairly high cost.

I agree with this, personally.

Mass rez on a 30 minute cd, rez scroll on a 60 minute cd, and single target on a 5 minute cd. Give all of them a 10 second cast time, and I don't really consider the mana use to be of significance (if you have 10 seconds to rez someone, you can probably get your mana back fairly easily).

To me, rather than the mass rez being group only though, I'd like to see it being 8 players in your own raid, within a given range. However, people bought up with this specific ability should find themselves at lower HP/mana than if they were bought up by a single target rez.

Vargan

This particular part of combat will require constant feedback to get right.

Let's not forget that, because of the lack of instant travel, dying in this game can be severely punishing, especially timewise. And any decent group can focus fire on a single target to burst it down quickly, regardless of who wins the overall battle. You don't want that specific target to spend the rest of the fight on the ground staring at the screen. That would breed resentment rather quickly, so having a "second chance" sort of solution is needed.

Personally, I'm against making a resurrection skill hard to pull off (long cast time or ridiculous mana pool spent), but I definitely agree with the need for a longer cooldown, and perhaps a temporary stats penalty for the resurrected target. It should feel like you're "burning" this really strong ability in order to rally more troops.

daveywavey

Resurrection during combat is essential. It opens up so many more options, and means that once somebody dies, if the fight goes on for another 20mins, that they get to actually join in, rather than either lying there being useless or having to port to the nearest resurrection shrine and being useless. All archetypes should be able to do it, with different degrees of efficiency.

Effah

separate pve death for pvp death.

daveywavey

It's PvX though, we shouldn't be thinking of it in terms of PvE and PvP.

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