Ranged Mobs: Impossible to Counter if you are in their attack range

How do you guys feel about the current fight mechanic which the current ranged attack mobs have it implemented?.
Currently any mob in the world which is using a ranged attack: spell, throwing spears, arrows, etc, will auto lock on you , no matter if you strafe or try to avoid their direction of attack by moving fast around.
I think this is a little silly for 2024 being forced to just embrace their incoming attack, no matter how good your hero movement is.
Is this how you guys want?, to be just statues in front of mobs and let the stats dictate our fate?.
For pvp it might be a different story, but for pve mobs, this makes no sense. Is like going back to the old click to move, let the mob hit you, and just click skills on the skillbar...

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Noaani

Syblitrh wrote: »

I think this is a little silly for 2024 being forced to just embrace their incoming attack, no matter how good your hero movement is.

Movement shouldn't be what you use to avoid an incoming attack - that is what abilities like the tanks "reflect" ability are for.

Syblitrh

Noaani wrote: »

Syblitrh wrote: »

I think this is a little silly for 2024 being forced to just embrace their incoming attack, no matter how good your hero movement is.

Movement shouldn't be what you use to avoid an incoming attack - that is what abilities like the tanks "reflect" ability are for.

i don't think you see my point, but ok

Ludullu

Syblitrh wrote: »

For pvp it might be a different story, but for pve mobs, this makes no sense.

To me it makes total sense. Both are entities in the game that are using the game's rules. That's it. Humans are no different from mobs and vice versa.

Caeryl

Tab systems will always disappoint as it saps so much potential skill expression from the combat, but it's easier for the devs to balance when they only need to consider stats.

I'll be content enough as long as there's access to active dodging balanced around resource costs and/or cooldowns

Flanker

Syblitrh wrote: »

i don't think you see my point, but ok

Get used to that individual. It's a local clown who's got a finger in every pie

Syblitrh

NiKr wrote: »

Syblitrh wrote: »

For pvp it might be a different story, but for pve mobs, this makes no sense.

To me it makes total sense. Both are entities in the game that are using the game's rules. That's it. Humans are no different from mobs and vice versa.

Sure, but then i will ask this, why you can avoid a melee attack coming from a mob, but you can't escape an arrow, spear. An arrow should shoot straight and not have an auto homing lockON like modern missiles. Just saying...

Go to 21:10, if this normal for you, oh well, i will let others decide if they want to comment on this subject with some constructive feedback.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oSBNQ8VjTo

Ludullu

Syblitrh wrote: »

Go to 21:10, if this normal for you, oh well, i will let others decide if they want to comment on this subject with some constructive feedback.

Do you mean the spear throw at 21:14? The mob simply turns around and throws it. You can see it if you go frame by frame.

Also, as I said, both players and mobs are in-game entities with the same rules, so I do hope/expect some mobs to be more action-combaty than purely tab. Imo that would only be fair.

But mobs turning around after their tab target is more than fine for me.

Pendragxn

In my opinion, a hybrid combat system needs to strike a balance between tab-target abilities and action combat. That's the whole point—finding that sweet spot. It’s important to balance skill-based defensives with action-based dodging and countering. Some abilities just naturally work better as tab-target, while others feel more intuitive with action combat. For example, if a mob throws a spear using a tab/lock-on ability and I use an action combat skill to dodge, I should be able to evade the attack. It’s all about making sure both systems complement each other and work smoothly together.

Syblitrh

Pendragxn wrote: »

In my opinion, a hybrid combat system needs to strike a balance between tab-target abilities and action combat. That's the whole point—finding that sweet spot. It’s important to balance skill-based defensives with action-based dodging and countering. Some abilities just naturally work better as tab-target, while others feel more intuitive with action combat. For example, if a mob throws a spear using a tab/lock-on ability and I use an action combat skill to dodge, I should be able to evade the attack. It’s all about making sure both systems complement each other and work smoothly together.

If that's the case, i hope bosses will follow the same principle, and when the boss does AOE projectiles, to not miss a single target

Ludullu

Pendragxn wrote: »

In my opinion, a hybrid combat system needs to strike a balance between tab-target abilities and action combat. That's the whole point—finding that sweet spot. It’s important to balance skill-based defensives with action-based dodging and countering. Some abilities just naturally work better as tab-target, while others feel more intuitive with action combat. For example, if a mob throws a spear using a tab/lock-on ability and I use an action combat skill to dodge, I should be able to evade the attack. It’s all about making sure both systems complement each other and work smoothly together.

I do agree that active dodging should boost your evasive stats, so that skillful players might build less into evasion if they believe they can dodge all the dangerous stuff.

Pendragxn

That’s why I think having a stamina bar is crucial, much like managing mana. Tying stamina to action combat abilities makes sense because it prevents players from constantly evading every tab-target or lock-on attack. If you don’t manage your stamina properly, you shouldn’t be able to dodge everything with just action combat skills. It adds a layer of strategy, forcing players to think about when to use their dodges or counters instead of relying on them endlessly. It helps maintain balance between the two systems, ensuring that neither becomes overpowered.

Syblitrh

Pendragxn wrote: »

That’s why I think having a stamina bar is crucial, much like managing mana. Tying stamina to action combat abilities makes sense because it prevents players from constantly evading every tab-target or lock-on attack. If you don’t manage your stamina properly, you shouldn’t be able to dodge everything with just action combat skills. It adds a layer of strategy, forcing players to think about when to use their dodges or counters instead of relying on them endlessly. It helps maintain balance between the two systems, ensuring that neither becomes overpowered.

I would love that

Noaani

Syblitrh wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Syblitrh wrote: »

I think this is a little silly for 2024 being forced to just embrace their incoming attack, no matter how good your hero movement is.

Movement shouldn't be what you use to avoid an incoming attack - that is what abilities like the tanks "reflect" ability are for.

i don't think you see my point, but ok

Let's find out.

Your point, as I see it, is that you think players should be able to use regular character movement to dodge attacks.

My point is that this isn't what regular character movement is for. The game provides specific activated abilities to perform this specific function.

Caeryl

Noaani wrote: »

Syblitrh wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Syblitrh wrote: »

I think this is a little silly for 2024 being forced to just embrace their incoming attack, no matter how good your hero movement is.

Movement shouldn't be what you use to avoid an incoming attack - that is what abilities like the tanks "reflect" ability are for.

i don't think you see my point, but ok

Let's find out.

Your point, as I see it, is that you think players should be able to use regular character movement to dodge attacks.

My point is that this isn't what regular character movement is for. The game provides specific activated abilities to perform this specific function.

'You don't use movement to dodge' has to be one of the funnier things to come out of a person's keyboard

Songcaller

We are at the point now where I know the game is not for me. The issues around active dodge, active block, hybrid targeting system, the fact environment and mobs are bought from the Unreal asset store and barely changed (Look up Tumuck and the tree weapon for a start) then my suspicions were confirmed with the recent dragon raid - no actual improvements since the first showcase despite a whole dev thread about feedback the first time. I am all about skill over rng and you have highlighted my main issue with the combat too.

I did not log in to write an essay. I simply logged in to show support for actual gameplay rather than gimmicks and stat sticks.

Pendragxn

I don’t believe there’s anything preventing them from incorporating an active dodge or block system. However, it’s essential to have safeguards, like linking it to stamina, to prevent abuse. That said, we’re still in the early stages of pre-alpha testing, so things could change.

In my opinion, a rage meter for melee classes would work well, similar to the momentum system we saw in one of the preview videos. A stamina meter should be tied to combat abilities, as well as active dodge and block, to balance usage. As for mana, it should remain as it is, with a range of skills—whether tab-targeted or action-targeted—requiring mana for activation.

Arya_Yeshe

That's ok since this is not an arcade game like Street Fighter or Marvel vs Capcom. what will determine if an attack will become a hit should be the skills and stats

Ungohil

Mobs use tab targeting, thats ok.
This said they always move around rapidly, so they will always hit, as long the player was in sight at the moment when the (ranged) attack left the mob, here the magicial red spear.

Pendragxn

This is just my opinion, but while it can be tricky to balance, it’s not impossible to implement an active dodge or block ability. For example, using right-click to hold and block, or space to dodge roll, could work. However, that doesn’t mean you should be able to block all abilities or dodge roll away or through every attack. Instead, it could be limited to some attack types, with stronger abilities or AoE attacks requiring the use of active skills to block or mitigate.

However, I get what you mean—it might seem outdated with the tab-targeting system. But if they can nail the balance between action combat skills and the hybrid combat system, it might not feel too bad. Action combat is probably more like New World, where you actually have to aim your attacks, making it more skill-based. That doesn’t mean you can’t have a system where action combat works alongside tab targeting, but maybe those attacks hit harder when landed, or there’s a defensive action skill that lets you evade being target-locked or something similar.

Again, some systems, skills, and abilities just work better as tab-targeting, while others are more suited for action combat.

Just to add, I don’t think everything should be tab-targeted like in WoW, because that’s just horrible, mindless key mashing. It feels awful—it’s neither responsive nor intuitive, and it’s outdated compared to modern game mechanics.

Azherae

Syblitrh wrote: »

How do you guys feel about the current fight mechanic which the current ranged attack mobs have it implemented?.
Currently any mob in the world which is using a ranged attack: spell, throwing spears, arrows, etc, will auto lock on you , no matter if you strafe or try to avoid their direction of attack by moving fast around.
I think this is a little silly for 2024 being forced to just embrace their incoming attack, no matter how good your hero movement is.
Is this how you guys want?, to be just statues in front of mobs and let the stats dictate our fate?.
For pvp it might be a different story, but for pve mobs, this makes no sense. Is like going back to the old click to move, let the mob hit you, and just click skills on the skillbar...

"Good" hero movement is a game abstraction, though.

Characters in MMOs often move without any true momentum, if you move fast enough to dodge an arrow, then you also shouldn't be able to easily 'stop' that motion.

But many MMO players don't like games where they don't have total control over their character, even to the point where they don't like having to slow down before they change direction. So, games give them a dodge roll, which solves 'both issues'.

Would you be fine with it if the dodge roll was the only way to dodge projectiles? It could probably be coded so that a locked-on projectile loses its target if the player uses their dodge roll.

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