Living as a red player

Hi there,

I know the game is a lot wider in scope than PvP. However I always enjoyed PvP in any game, especially if there is a risk/reward factor involved. Not just killing each other over and over again and the only punishment being waiting a few seconds to be able to respawn.
Hence I always gravitate towards mmo’s with the light or heavy focus on PvP.

This game has a PvX philosophy. From reading I gather the punishment/reward for becoming red currently I dont think PvP will be frequent outside of event.
Do you think if chosen, a red path, will it actually be viable? Can I live somewhere?
Should it even be viable?
Personally for me PvP and actually trying to be better than most people is a big driving factor for me to play games. I get competitive. Personally I hope that towards the end game red playstyle will be a viable option. Where you and your friends can become elite red bandits that live for the thrill of a good fight.

I also know there are other games that cater more towards this ‘need’ or ‘playstyle’
But just wanted to hear what other people think.
I mostly read negative or adverse opinions towards PvP in this community. While I personally would advocate for more of it.

Thanks

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Comments

Dolyem

Its not sustainable to be a red player. The Corruption system is simply designed to deter griefing. With the penalties acquired from Corruption, if you remain corrupted for long periods of time you'll eventually be killed and receive large penalties upon death. And up until that death you will become weaker and weaker against players.

Korela

Serukkq wrote: »

>> elite red bandits

Corrupted players gain skill and stat dampening as soon as corruption is gained. This increases each time corruption is gained until they ultimately become ineffective at PvP combat
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Skill_and_stat_dampening

PvP is PvP. PK is PK.

Dolyem

Korela wrote: »

Serukkq wrote: »

>> elite red bandits

Corrupted players gain skill and stat dampening as soon as corruption is gained. This increases each time corruption is gained until they ultimately become ineffective at PvP combat
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Skill_and_stat_dampening

PvP is PvP. PK is PK.

PK is also PvP. Griefing is the target.

CROW3

Try it and see how it goes. 🤷‍♂️

Keep in mind it’s the only way you can drop gear to other players.

Serukka

Korela wrote: »

Serukkq wrote: »

>> elite red bandits

Corrupted players gain skill and stat dampening as soon as corruption is gained. This increases each time corruption is gained until they ultimately become ineffective at PvP combat
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Skill_and_stat_dampening

PvP is PvP. PK is PK.

Besides that I personally think that PK’ing can be fun, even as the hunted. My best mmo memories are being jumped and than coming out on top.
I understand that most people don’t like this however or are not that competitive that they see a death by a player not as something they have to overcome but avoid.

What I hope to happen I guess is small scale fights. 5v5 or slightly outnumbered 3v5 fights here and there for reasons other than a caravan.

PK’ing as a way to get resources of the trouble of others. Fighting another band of red players for a chance to get some dungeon crawlers etc..

I just love the idea of living as an outlaw and always enjoyed that playstyle in my more pvp centered mmo’s.
But the reduced stats prob make that not an option.
Perhaps tho living in a lawless zone?

Serukka

CROW3 wrote: »

Try it and see how it goes. 🤷‍♂️

Keep in mind it’s the only way you can drop gear tonothwr players.

Come and take it! 😈

CROW3

Serukkq wrote: »

CROW3 wrote: »

Try it and see how it goes. 🤷‍♂️

Keep in mind it’s the only way you can drop gear tonothwr players.

Come and take it! 😈

I mean, I applaud the moxy, but red players will have increasingly reduced stats, and will have a chance to drop their equipped gear. You can charge in very bravely, and die very quickly.

Serukka

CROW3 wrote: »

Serukkq wrote: »

CROW3 wrote: »

Try it and see how it goes. 🤷‍♂️

Keep in mind it’s the only way you can drop gear tonothwr players.

Come and take it! 😈

I mean, I applaud the moxy, but red players will have increasingly reduced stats, and will have a chance to drop their equipped gear. You can charge in very bravely, and die very quickly.

Leads to the question how fast you can work off corruption/stat dampening
Any info on that?

All I can find is exp debt that needs to be worked off. That ties to stat dampening for greens.

Korela

Serukkq wrote: »

Perhaps tho living in a lawless zone?

Lawless zones are open-world areas where the corruption system is disabled. These are intended to be an Alpha-2-only feature to help test what will become open-sea content
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Lawless_zones
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Naval_PvP

So, yes. I hope that there will be an option to play mainly next to (and even in) the open sea naval PvP zone.

CROW3

Serukkq wrote: »

CROW3 wrote: »

Serukkq wrote: »

CROW3 wrote: »

Try it and see how it goes. 🤷‍♂️

Keep in mind it’s the only way you can drop gear tonothwr players.

Come and take it! 😈

I mean, I applaud the moxy, but red players will have increasingly reduced stats, and will have a chance to drop their equipped gear. You can charge in very bravely, and die very quickly.

Leads to the question how fast you can work off corruption/stat dampening
Any info on that?

All I can find is exp debt that needs to be worked off. That ties to stat dampening for greens.

Yeah - agreed. All of this needs to be worked out so players can make informed choices.

Dolyem

Korela wrote: »

Serukkq wrote: »

Perhaps tho living in a lawless zone?

Lawless zones are open-world areas where the corruption system is disabled. These are intended to be an Alpha-2-only feature to help test what will become open-sea content
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Lawless_zones
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Naval_PvP

So, yes. I hope that there will be an option to play mainly next to (and even in) the open sea naval PvP zone.

Podgnil

As for me, the system with corruption is the most controversial decision of the developers. It looks like the hand of God meddling into the affairs of mortals, as if it is not the game that punishes you for your transgressions, not the laws of the world, but the developers themselves. Yes, griefing should be punishable, bounties on heads, increased fines for death - yes. forced reduction of characteristics - no.
Why? Why should killing my victim, a merchant, a grender, an adventurer, make me weaker? I'm a criminal, not a weakling.
I think griefers should be a problem of a node, in whose jurisdiction the land on which the crime is being committed is located. In this node of measures from the budget, the node must assign a reward for the heads of griefers, thereby ensuring security and attracting honest artisans to their lands. Those nodes that skimp on security will create lawlessness around themselves and gather a certain contingent, and this is normal. kind of a pirate bay)

Depraved

Podgnil wrote: »

As for me, the system with corruption is the most controversial decision of the developers. It looks like the hand of God meddling into the affairs of mortals, as if it is not the game that punishes you for your transgressions, not the laws of the world, but the developers themselves. Yes, griefing should be punishable, bounties on heads, increased fines for death - yes. forced reduction of characteristics - no.
Why? Why should killing my victim, a merchant, a grender, an adventurer, make me weaker? I'm a criminal, not a weakling.
I think griefers should be a problem of a node, in whose jurisdiction the land on which the crime is being committed is located. In this node of measures from the budget, the node must assign a reward for the heads of griefers, thereby ensuring security and attracting honest artisans to their lands. Those nodes that skimp on security will create lawlessness around themselves and gather a certain contingent, and this is normal. kind of a pirate bay)

balance > rp

Podgnil

[quote=

balance > rp[/quote]

Depraved wrote: »

Podgnil wrote: »

As for me, the system with corruption is the most controversial decision of the developers. It looks like the hand of God meddling into the affairs of mortals, as if it is not the game that punishes you for your transgressions, not the laws of the world, but the developers themselves. Yes, griefing should be punishable, bounties on heads, increased fines for death - yes. forced reduction of characteristics - no.
Why? Why should killing my victim, a merchant, a grender, an adventurer, make me weaker? I'm a criminal, not a weakling.
I think griefers should be a problem of a node, in whose jurisdiction the land on which the crime is being committed is located. In this node of measures from the budget, the node must assign a reward for the heads of griefers, thereby ensuring security and attracting honest artisans to their lands. Those nodes that skimp on security will create lawlessness around themselves and gather a certain contingent, and this is normal. kind of a pirate bay)

balance > rp

I think the best way is when RP=BALANCE. Again, balance for whom? for collectors? for griefers? for adventurers? A very subjective concept. Here is an example of games that put balance at the forefront. Modern WoW - everything for everyone - Healing for wars and rogs, invisibility in half of the classes, they gave literally everything to everyone - for balance. But the classic version, in which there is no balance, but is based primarily on the RP, plays much more interestingly, immerses you in the world more. And is it really a balance when a developer underestimates the characteristics of your character? It looks more like a patch on the balance sheet.

Blip

Podgnil wrote: »

As for me, the system with corruption is the most controversial decision of the developers. It looks like the hand of God meddling into the affairs of mortals, as if it is not the game that punishes you for your transgressions, not the laws of the world, but the developers themselves. Yes, griefing should be punishable, bounties on heads, increased fines for death - yes. forced reduction of characteristics - no.
Why? Why should killing my victim, a merchant, a grender, an adventurer, make me weaker? I'm a criminal, not a weakling.
I think griefers should be a problem of a node, in whose jurisdiction the land on which the crime is being committed is located. In this node of measures from the budget, the node must assign a reward for the heads of griefers, thereby ensuring security and attracting honest artisans to their lands. Those nodes that skimp on security will create lawlessness around themselves and gather a certain contingent, and this is normal. kind of a pirate bay)

I think this sound much more fun and imersive

Serukka

Podgnil wrote: »

As for me, the system with corruption is the most controversial decision of the developers. It looks like the hand of God meddling into the affairs of mortals, as if it is not the game that punishes you for your transgressions, not the laws of the world, but the developers themselves. Yes, griefing should be punishable, bounties on heads, increased fines for death - yes. forced reduction of characteristics - no.
Why? Why should killing my victim, a merchant, a grender, an adventurer, make me weaker? I'm a criminal, not a weakling.
I think griefers should be a problem of a node, in whose jurisdiction the land on which the crime is being committed is located. In this node of measures from the budget, the node must assign a reward for the heads of griefers, thereby ensuring security and attracting honest artisans to their lands. Those nodes that skimp on security will create lawlessness around themselves and gather a certain contingent, and this is normal. kind of a pirate bay)

Will have to see how it plays out.
I do agree that this ‘godly’ system feels weird and enacts controversy.
I also understand that random pk’ing drives away a lot of players and only leaves behind a small group of players who enjoy full pvp mmo’s. Many games have tried to balance this thru the years with different systems and they always fail and every time the players left to play the game are these ‘pvp/griefers’.

I agree that this corruption system just sounds odd, if I want to be a murdering jackass the punishment should come from the world and its players not some magical stat dampening that makes me weak. I could live with dropping all my gear upon death when red. But making me unable to kill another player after x kills just feels lame.

I really enjoy pvp and I really like mmo’s. People often tell me ‘well go play x pvp mmo’
But I played them all extensively and I want to play this game.
Just hope that somehow being red or living the lawless life is a possibility somehow, someday.

Podgnil

Serukka wrote: »

Will have to see how it plays out.
I do agree that this ‘godly’ system feels weird and enacts controversy.
I also understand that random pk’ing drives away a lot of players and only leaves behind a small group of players who enjoy full pvp mmo’s. Many games have tried to balance this thru the years with different systems and they always fail and every time the players left to play the game are these ‘pvp/griefers’.

I agree that this corruption system just sounds odd, if I want to be a murdering jackass the punishment should come from the world and its players not some magical stat dampening that makes me weak. I could live with dropping all my gear upon death when red. But making me unable to kill another player after x kills just feels lame.

I really enjoy pvp and I really like mmo’s. People often tell me ‘well go play x pvp mmo’
But I played them all extensively and I want to play this game.
Just hope that somehow being red or living the lawless life is a possibility somehow, someday.

I agree completely, such decisions kill banditry and robbery in the world of the game) Yes, of course, so that the game does not turn into a bloody swamp in which people are killed as soon as you leave the city, there must be tools that regulate this. Perhaps even prisons in nodes, in which the most malicious griefers can sit for a couple of days. Punishment must be logical and follow from the laws of the world. Ashes strives for the players to create the world, so why then did the developers take this issue completely to their own discretion)) This process should be self-regulating, the number of raids increases, players tighten laws, increase their security costs, pay more taxes. Banditry ceases to be profitable, the players begin to feel safe, and they tell the mayor that they do not want to pay so much. Okay, the tax will be reduced, no one wants to catch bandits, and so on and so forth... You understand. I understand that the system is complex, it is difficult to predict how it will work and whether it will work, but we have a couple of years of testing for this.

draugris

Serukka wrote: »

Hi there,

Personally for me PvP and actually trying to be better than most people is a big driving factor for me to play games. I get competitive.
Thanks

Well, it´s actually funny reading this. Tbh I don´t believe you, you don´t want to be competitive, you just want to win, which is fine, but please don´t call it competition. Looking back to Archeage, BDO, Albion, or other games where PK'ing was a thing, I never met competitive players, it was always about either ganking or killing undergeared players. To make it short, it was only about the quick win and not about the competition with comparable opponents. Ashes of Creation will be a gear dependent game, so competition will be limited by design. If you really are about competition play GW2 structured PvP. Competitive PvP in MMO´s is rare to find and even more rare is the success of such PvP modes. Why, because in the end, most people want easy mode. My hope for AC is that living as a red player will not be viable in any shape or form. I just want PvP to be fun for everybody.

Otr

Serukka wrote: »

Do you think if chosen, a red path, will it actually be viable? Can I live somewhere?
Should it even be viable?

You can live in the deep ocean if you find a friend to bring you food.

There was a thread where someone suggested to have a node permanently at war with everyone else. I think it would not be viable and would be destroyed fast. Nodes need peace with some other nodes to evolve.

Serukka

draugris wrote: »

Serukka wrote: »

Hi there,

Personally for me PvP and actually trying to be better than most people is a big driving factor for me to play games. I get competitive.
Thanks

Well, it´s actually funny reading this. Tbh I don´t believe you, you don´t want to be competitive, you just want to win, which is fine, but please don´t call it competition. Looking back to Archeage, BDO, Albion, or other games where PK'ing was a thing, I never met competitive players, it was always about either ganking or killing undergeared players. To make it short, it was only about the quick win and not about the competition with comparable opponents. Ashes of Creation will be a gear dependent game, so competition will be limited by design. If you really are about competition play GW2 structured PvP. Competitive PvP in MMO´s is rare to find.

There is PK’ing
Just ganking for loot you look for an easy kill.
Ngl this is fun

There is PvP in big groups
Think sieges and or big events 40v40 or whatever. Here the leadership skill is the most important and group composition.

Than lastly small scale PvP 3v3 or 3v5 whatever.
This is what i always loved the most and where individual skill and group cohesion is vital. Here you can def be better and competitive. In other mmo’s I spend hours looking at my own footage to see what I can improve. Spend hours practicing with guildies to be better.

There def is the aspect of a fun easy gank. But youre experience might be skewed or limited to the receiving end of griefers i feel like.
Unfortunately or depending how you look at it, it is within that sub group of players you find the competitive and good players.

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