Knight wrote: » But if I don't attack back you get corrupted. Why would you want that debuff?
Azherae wrote: » Knight wrote: » But if I don't attack back you get corrupted. Why would you want that debuff? The debuff and penalties are temporarily harsher than they would be in the live version of the game.
Knight wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Knight wrote: » But if I don't attack back you get corrupted. Why would you want that debuff? The debuff and penalties are temporarily harsher than they would be in the live version of the game. They are doing that to combat griefing. What do you think will happen in the live version when griefing happens again? If the penalty isn't harsh then players will just do it all the time.
Azherae wrote: » Knight wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Knight wrote: » But if I don't attack back you get corrupted. Why would you want that debuff? The debuff and penalties are temporarily harsher than they would be in the live version of the game. They are doing that to combat griefing. What do you think will happen in the live version when griefing happens again? If the penalty isn't harsh then players will just do it all the time. Well, which thing do you want? Also, we do already have zones that are just Open PvP all the time, they're just high level, presumably to prevent issues with lower level players. You said that the Purple players went away after [tagging you?]. Isn't that the correct outcome? If you want to PvP them, you flag up, if you don't, you stand there. If you didn't flag up because of their obvious advantages or something, then ... working as intended? Controlling the behaviours of players in PvP games is very difficult, after all. Still unsolved, by most people's standards.
mcstackerson wrote: » There isn't much of a point in killing someone who is minding their own business unless you know they are full of loot. Corruption is a penalty, no benefit. The benefits of killing someone are the resources they drop and them being forced to respawn. The main reason start a fight (at least what i have found) with someone is to control an area you are trying to grind or a world boss. If someone comes into the spot you and killing the mobs you are grinding, that messes up your efficiency. Attacking them is an option you can exercise to try to push them out of your area. This is all by design and the bigger picture is how this affects player relationships in the long run and creates friction, which leads to player conflicts, which leads to changes in the world. Instead of pvp being just about killing the people the game has flagged as red, you are fighting people because of your experiences with them. I guess it's also worth mentioning that corruption is only a piece of the pvp pie. There are other systems like the caravan, wars, and siege systems that also play into it to create the whole pvp experience.
Knight wrote: » mcstackerson wrote: » There isn't much of a point in killing someone who is minding their own business unless you know they are full of loot. Corruption is a penalty, no benefit. The benefits of killing someone are the resources they drop and them being forced to respawn. The main reason start a fight (at least what i have found) with someone is to control an area you are trying to grind or a world boss. If someone comes into the spot you and killing the mobs you are grinding, that messes up your efficiency. Attacking them is an option you can exercise to try to push them out of your area. This is all by design and the bigger picture is how this affects player relationships in the long run and creates friction, which leads to player conflicts, which leads to changes in the world. Instead of pvp being just about killing the people the game has flagged as red, you are fighting people because of your experiences with them. I guess it's also worth mentioning that corruption is only a piece of the pvp pie. There are other systems like the caravan, wars, and siege systems that also play into it to create the whole pvp experience. I agree with you and the caravan, sieges, and wars sound great! But if the corruption debuff is a short amount of time like McShave said then what is stopping a player from killing an non confrontational player, running back to town to wait out the timer, then going back out and doing it again. You and I both know that there are players like this our there. So like you said. If I am in an area that you are farming you and you want me gone so you come over and attack. But I don't fight back and keep on my business. Now if the penalty isn't that long or harsh then you would just kill me and wait out the short timer. BUT if the penalty is harsh then you are faced with a dilemma. It's a tough system to balance. If you decide to clear me out of the area then I can just keep coming back baiting you into killing me over and over again to increase your corruption. Which could be considered also griefing.
Knight wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Knight wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Knight wrote: » But if I don't attack back you get corrupted. Why would you want that debuff? The debuff and penalties are temporarily harsher than they would be in the live version of the game. They are doing that to combat griefing. What do you think will happen in the live version when griefing happens again? If the penalty isn't harsh then players will just do it all the time. Well, which thing do you want? Also, we do already have zones that are just Open PvP all the time, they're just high level, presumably to prevent issues with lower level players. You said that the Purple players went away after [tagging you?]. Isn't that the correct outcome? If you want to PvP them, you flag up, if you don't, you stand there. If you didn't flag up because of their obvious advantages or something, then ... working as intended? Controlling the behaviours of players in PvP games is very difficult, after all. Still unsolved, by most people's standards. Oh no I do understand regulating player behavior is not easy. Like I said I don't mind PvP but when you're questing to level up or gathering materials being always smacked by another player running by can get annoying lol. Like the little mosquito that won't go away. You want to defend the way the system is now that's fine and I'm glad that players are ok with it. Honestly I am too. I'm just doing my part as a tester and providing feedback. The corruption system needs to be harsh to protect low level players. If it isn't then what is going to stop a high level player from griefing?
mcstackerson wrote: » Knight wrote: » mcstackerson wrote: » There isn't much of a point in killing someone who is minding their own business unless you know they are full of loot. Corruption is a penalty, no benefit. The benefits of killing someone are the resources they drop and them being forced to respawn. The main reason start a fight (at least what i have found) with someone is to control an area you are trying to grind or a world boss. If someone comes into the spot you and killing the mobs you are grinding, that messes up your efficiency. Attacking them is an option you can exercise to try to push them out of your area. This is all by design and the bigger picture is how this affects player relationships in the long run and creates friction, which leads to player conflicts, which leads to changes in the world. Instead of pvp being just about killing the people the game has flagged as red, you are fighting people because of your experiences with them. I guess it's also worth mentioning that corruption is only a piece of the pvp pie. There are other systems like the caravan, wars, and siege systems that also play into it to create the whole pvp experience. I agree with you and the caravan, sieges, and wars sound great! But if the corruption debuff is a short amount of time like McShave said then what is stopping a player from killing an non confrontational player, running back to town to wait out the timer, then going back out and doing it again. You and I both know that there are players like this our there. So like you said. If I am in an area that you are farming you and you want me gone so you come over and attack. But I don't fight back and keep on my business. Now if the penalty isn't that long or harsh then you would just kill me and wait out the short timer. BUT if the penalty is harsh then you are faced with a dilemma. It's a tough system to balance. If you decide to clear me out of the area then I can just keep coming back baiting you into killing me over and over again to increase your corruption. Which could be considered also griefing. You can't go into a town if you are corrupted, the guards will attack you. There is also no waiting for it to go away. Only way to lose corruption is to die or grind it off. I don't think it's that tough to balance, especially with corruption having levels, the stat degradation that comes with it, the blight mechanic that increases the amount of corruption someone gets per kill, and how much exp it takes to grind it off. I think it's just a matter of them finding where they want these things.
Knight wrote: » mcstackerson wrote: » Knight wrote: » mcstackerson wrote: » There isn't much of a point in killing someone who is minding their own business unless you know they are full of loot. Corruption is a penalty, no benefit. The benefits of killing someone are the resources they drop and them being forced to respawn. The main reason start a fight (at least what i have found) with someone is to control an area you are trying to grind or a world boss. If someone comes into the spot you and killing the mobs you are grinding, that messes up your efficiency. Attacking them is an option you can exercise to try to push them out of your area. This is all by design and the bigger picture is how this affects player relationships in the long run and creates friction, which leads to player conflicts, which leads to changes in the world. Instead of pvp being just about killing the people the game has flagged as red, you are fighting people because of your experiences with them. I guess it's also worth mentioning that corruption is only a piece of the pvp pie. There are other systems like the caravan, wars, and siege systems that also play into it to create the whole pvp experience. I agree with you and the caravan, sieges, and wars sound great! But if the corruption debuff is a short amount of time like McShave said then what is stopping a player from killing an non confrontational player, running back to town to wait out the timer, then going back out and doing it again. You and I both know that there are players like this our there. So like you said. If I am in an area that you are farming you and you want me gone so you come over and attack. But I don't fight back and keep on my business. Now if the penalty isn't that long or harsh then you would just kill me and wait out the short timer. BUT if the penalty is harsh then you are faced with a dilemma. It's a tough system to balance. If you decide to clear me out of the area then I can just keep coming back baiting you into killing me over and over again to increase your corruption. Which could be considered also griefing. You can't go into a town if you are corrupted, the guards will attack you. There is also no waiting for it to go away. Only way to lose corruption is to die or grind it off. I don't think it's that tough to balance, especially with corruption having levels, the stat degradation that comes with it, the blight mechanic that increases the amount of corruption someone gets per kill, and how much exp it takes to grind it off. I think it's just a matter of them finding where they want these things. I haven't been corrupted so I wasn't sure how to get rid of it. But what is there to prevent another player from trolling you and jumping in the way of you fighting mob, making you attack them? Reminds me of The Division's broken Rogue system in the Darkzone. You attacked them first and then they retaliate and kill you with no repercussions.
Azherae wrote: » Knight wrote: » mcstackerson wrote: » Knight wrote: » mcstackerson wrote: » There isn't much of a point in killing someone who is minding their own business unless you know they are full of loot. Corruption is a penalty, no benefit. The benefits of killing someone are the resources they drop and them being forced to respawn. The main reason start a fight (at least what i have found) with someone is to control an area you are trying to grind or a world boss. If someone comes into the spot you and killing the mobs you are grinding, that messes up your efficiency. Attacking them is an option you can exercise to try to push them out of your area. This is all by design and the bigger picture is how this affects player relationships in the long run and creates friction, which leads to player conflicts, which leads to changes in the world. Instead of pvp being just about killing the people the game has flagged as red, you are fighting people because of your experiences with them. I guess it's also worth mentioning that corruption is only a piece of the pvp pie. There are other systems like the caravan, wars, and siege systems that also play into it to create the whole pvp experience. I agree with you and the caravan, sieges, and wars sound great! But if the corruption debuff is a short amount of time like McShave said then what is stopping a player from killing an non confrontational player, running back to town to wait out the timer, then going back out and doing it again. You and I both know that there are players like this our there. So like you said. If I am in an area that you are farming you and you want me gone so you come over and attack. But I don't fight back and keep on my business. Now if the penalty isn't that long or harsh then you would just kill me and wait out the short timer. BUT if the penalty is harsh then you are faced with a dilemma. It's a tough system to balance. If you decide to clear me out of the area then I can just keep coming back baiting you into killing me over and over again to increase your corruption. Which could be considered also griefing. You can't go into a town if you are corrupted, the guards will attack you. There is also no waiting for it to go away. Only way to lose corruption is to die or grind it off. I don't think it's that tough to balance, especially with corruption having levels, the stat degradation that comes with it, the blight mechanic that increases the amount of corruption someone gets per kill, and how much exp it takes to grind it off. I think it's just a matter of them finding where they want these things. I haven't been corrupted so I wasn't sure how to get rid of it. But what is there to prevent another player from trolling you and jumping in the way of you fighting mob, making you attack them? Reminds me of The Division's broken Rogue system in the Darkzone. You attacked them first and then they retaliate and kill you with no repercussions. You cannot hit green players accidentally. If you notice this has happened, please file a /bug report immediately.
Knight wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Knight wrote: » mcstackerson wrote: » Knight wrote: » mcstackerson wrote: » There isn't much of a point in killing someone who is minding their own business unless you know they are full of loot. Corruption is a penalty, no benefit. The benefits of killing someone are the resources they drop and them being forced to respawn. The main reason start a fight (at least what i have found) with someone is to control an area you are trying to grind or a world boss. If someone comes into the spot you and killing the mobs you are grinding, that messes up your efficiency. Attacking them is an option you can exercise to try to push them out of your area. This is all by design and the bigger picture is how this affects player relationships in the long run and creates friction, which leads to player conflicts, which leads to changes in the world. Instead of pvp being just about killing the people the game has flagged as red, you are fighting people because of your experiences with them. I guess it's also worth mentioning that corruption is only a piece of the pvp pie. There are other systems like the caravan, wars, and siege systems that also play into it to create the whole pvp experience. I agree with you and the caravan, sieges, and wars sound great! But if the corruption debuff is a short amount of time like McShave said then what is stopping a player from killing an non confrontational player, running back to town to wait out the timer, then going back out and doing it again. You and I both know that there are players like this our there. So like you said. If I am in an area that you are farming you and you want me gone so you come over and attack. But I don't fight back and keep on my business. Now if the penalty isn't that long or harsh then you would just kill me and wait out the short timer. BUT if the penalty is harsh then you are faced with a dilemma. It's a tough system to balance. If you decide to clear me out of the area then I can just keep coming back baiting you into killing me over and over again to increase your corruption. Which could be considered also griefing. You can't go into a town if you are corrupted, the guards will attack you. There is also no waiting for it to go away. Only way to lose corruption is to die or grind it off. I don't think it's that tough to balance, especially with corruption having levels, the stat degradation that comes with it, the blight mechanic that increases the amount of corruption someone gets per kill, and how much exp it takes to grind it off. I think it's just a matter of them finding where they want these things. I haven't been corrupted so I wasn't sure how to get rid of it. But what is there to prevent another player from trolling you and jumping in the way of you fighting mob, making you attack them? Reminds me of The Division's broken Rogue system in the Darkzone. You attacked them first and then they retaliate and kill you with no repercussions. You cannot hit green players accidentally. If you notice this has happened, please file a /bug report immediately. I play in action mode. So if another player jumps in front of my cursor while attacking a mob I won't attack the player instead? My cursor won't automatically target the player?
Azherae wrote: » Knight wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Knight wrote: » mcstackerson wrote: » Knight wrote: » mcstackerson wrote: » There isn't much of a point in killing someone who is minding their own business unless you know they are full of loot. Corruption is a penalty, no benefit. The benefits of killing someone are the resources they drop and them being forced to respawn. The main reason start a fight (at least what i have found) with someone is to control an area you are trying to grind or a world boss. If someone comes into the spot you and killing the mobs you are grinding, that messes up your efficiency. Attacking them is an option you can exercise to try to push them out of your area. This is all by design and the bigger picture is how this affects player relationships in the long run and creates friction, which leads to player conflicts, which leads to changes in the world. Instead of pvp being just about killing the people the game has flagged as red, you are fighting people because of your experiences with them. I guess it's also worth mentioning that corruption is only a piece of the pvp pie. There are other systems like the caravan, wars, and siege systems that also play into it to create the whole pvp experience. I agree with you and the caravan, sieges, and wars sound great! But if the corruption debuff is a short amount of time like McShave said then what is stopping a player from killing an non confrontational player, running back to town to wait out the timer, then going back out and doing it again. You and I both know that there are players like this our there. So like you said. If I am in an area that you are farming you and you want me gone so you come over and attack. But I don't fight back and keep on my business. Now if the penalty isn't that long or harsh then you would just kill me and wait out the short timer. BUT if the penalty is harsh then you are faced with a dilemma. It's a tough system to balance. If you decide to clear me out of the area then I can just keep coming back baiting you into killing me over and over again to increase your corruption. Which could be considered also griefing. You can't go into a town if you are corrupted, the guards will attack you. There is also no waiting for it to go away. Only way to lose corruption is to die or grind it off. I don't think it's that tough to balance, especially with corruption having levels, the stat degradation that comes with it, the blight mechanic that increases the amount of corruption someone gets per kill, and how much exp it takes to grind it off. I think it's just a matter of them finding where they want these things. I haven't been corrupted so I wasn't sure how to get rid of it. But what is there to prevent another player from trolling you and jumping in the way of you fighting mob, making you attack them? Reminds me of The Division's broken Rogue system in the Darkzone. You attacked them first and then they retaliate and kill you with no repercussions. You cannot hit green players accidentally. If you notice this has happened, please file a /bug report immediately. I play in action mode. So if another player jumps in front of my cursor while attacking a mob I won't attack the player instead? My cursor won't automatically target the player? You have to specifically Alt+F for your attacks to hit nonCombatants regardless of the attack, that's the intention. And, to be clear, I understand what you're concerned about, as I had similar problems in the Dark Zone back in those days, but Ashes seemingly intends to just let you snipe right through NonCombatants at mobs behind them, for example, even in Action Mode. If you've experienced this happening (I think you implied that you haven't), maybe it's not implemented yet, but I feel like it works fine? I can't be sure, since I'm a Cleric.
