Why pvp will not work….and i really hope I am wrong…..but the attack on Asmond showed the problems.

First sorry for my English ….its not my main but I try my best.

PvP …in my opinion must have a feeling of us against them. The better this feeling is….the harder people fight.
I have played many PvP games or games that tried PvP and failed hard.
My first real PvP game was DAoC that I played for 7 years…if you count the returnings I played for 9 years.
After that WoW, elders, new world, guild wars, anion etc etc.
All these games in my book tried getting close to the DAoC feeling…but most failed.
What they didn’t fail it in basics…was the us against them feeling.

AoC doesn’t have that…yet.
All other games made you pick a side at character creation. The us vs them feeling started straight on.
You knew who your friends where…and who is the enemy the moment you it your feet on the floor

In AoC everyone is you friend when you enter…and all you can do at start is….pve.
That’s ok….but so far no feeling that this is my side. My realm, my town, my zone, my people.
Nope…all run round and farm happy.
Sometimes you see people hitting other people….but you couldn’t care less…because you don’t know them.
In all other games if an enemy attacked my people….no matter how low or high I was was….i tried helping.

The caravan passed me and I got a pop up…you want to attack or defend?
Why attack? Couldn’t see a good reason so nope.
Why defend? Not my caravan ….so couldn’t care less.
Funny part….almost nobody helped out. Not on attack or defending.

I feel that servers will be dominated by a few guilds that own most.
They will be so large that attacking their towns, caravans or anything else is silly……so most people won’t do it.
Will people fight for their houses? If they are in one of the big guilds in the biggest towns…yes.
In all other cases after they lost the house a few times they won’t bother anymore.

You can call a ga,e pvpve pvpxpvppve, pvepvpxxpvp or whatever you like. People want to know what and who they fight for.
In old days DAoC and some players might remember this…when the enemy attacked our castles guilds would scream out in all chats….Call to Arms!!
Every one…and I mean everyone from levels 2 till 50 would rush out into the frontier and tried helping defend their realm.
Hundreds and hundreds of of people from all over the world would help out against this enemy.
Bigger guilds claimed the bigger keeps.
Smaller guilds later on claimed towers.
You had pride in seeing the realm and guild banners on your keeps.
In the other games this wasn’t happing but still we had the us against them feeling.

AoC must create a real us against them feeling or PvP will fail hard. It will turn into a grind lowboy game…even with the penalty….or large guilds bully the smaller once.
The map is big enough so fix it and make us take sides.
Or this will be another ga,e that tried it with PvP ……but will end up being ample grind game with here and there tanking groups killing others.

The fact that so many people attacked Asmond proves my point. In a normal game they shouldn’t be able to….because he is one of them.
Now he was a target and they needed fixes to let a guy play the game.
The core off PvP is wrong.

Us against them…thats it.

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Uncommon Sense

Asmond was not attacked by people, he was attacked by his "fanbase" No other streamer had the same issue.

It does not matter what game Asmond plays...if its online multiplayer he will get covered like flies on a pile of poop

The new player protections were not in place.

Ashes does not have factions (balance issues). Nor does it have servers fighting each other (Active population issue), Nor does it have instanced war zones (not all players participate).

It is up to the server population to decide and direct what the conflicts will be over. And what motivates this conflict? Actual resources and accessibility, and what gate keeps these resources?

The Node system. how does the Node system prosper? with trade routes.

Could other Nodes actively interfere with other Nodes trading movement? Yes.

Answer to the question why PVP in Ashes and whats the incentive.

Big guilds just need more taxes to keep high member caps and preferably share guild member XP debt as a curb to cannon foddering tactics...

Dygz

I would defend a Caravan because I'm in the mood for PvP and that's the type of PvP I enjoy.
If you're not in the mood to PvP; don't PvP.
Ashes is a PvX game. There's other stuff to do if you're not in the to PvP.

Dripyula

Uncommon Sense wrote: »

Asmond was not attacked by people, he was attacked by his "fanbase"

I don't think Asmon was attacked by his fanbase. Fan's don't do that. Hatewatchers do.
This is something that would have resolved itself quickly too I feel, should this have been the finished game and not just an Alpha test.
Cause then he would have been a major, the rat-roach King, surrounded by his minions and retainers and they would have slaughtered those inferior creatures who would dare to bark and bite at him.

His balding, shining head would have reflected the sunlight and highlighted the bloody puddles.
I can already see it. Glorious!

Back to topic:

I think the PvP aspect is okay. Indeed you are not part of a certain side, like in WoW for example.
And even in WoW, while on a PvP servers or on a PvE server on which PvP was enabled, I did not necessarily fought the other faction people.

Only when I was in the mood. Ironically I often helped Horde players as an Alliance player.
Why? Oh well, for many factors.
+ Fun
+ the reverse expecations effect
+ and the simple fact that this makes an encounter that much more memorable
Aszkalon was even contacted by a player from another faction afterwards and THANKED for helping instead of exploiting the situation, as he easily could have been.

In Ashes you will have a feeling of "us against them" but you will have to create or find this "us" first.
Your future guildmates! And who will you fight against with them?
Other guilds and their members, most probably.

Although I do have to say this sounds so wierd to me. It feels kinda lore-contradictive.
But I guess it is what it is. Since every player who returns to Verra from whatever other world after some sort of cataclysm had taken place, I feel they should all belong to the same nations and banners on the other side.
So when guilds become hostile to other people, this feels like they have become a Mafia.
And the bad guys in that sense.

It feels wierd to me that griefing is a concept, punished by corruption but you can declare node-war's and attack caravan's and there is no corruption involved for whatever reason.
Either that or this has also changed by now.
Which I doubt it will though.
Since it seems Ashes is supposed to have complete PvP dominance in area's like the sea's for example, or during something like a caravan travel again.

The us against them feel will exist yeah but I can see how it will feel distorted and contradictive.

Roanator

We will see.....like i said. I hope i will be wrong. Lets make up the balance just before official release and then 6 months after.

Balance issues can be easy handled with mirror classes.
Active population with having a good game.
Instance war zones i am not a fan off...never was. Works only for lower levels perhaps.
Just have open world pvp but also have some zones where people just can pve a bit if they want.
Where they can have a small house they can build and decorate.

I know its Asmonds "fan" base that did this. The point is that the way the game is build they could. Having protections in place for new players is a result of not having a clear us vs them situation.

Dripyula wrote: »

Uncommon Sense wrote: »

Asmond was not attacked by people, he was attacked by his "fanbase"

I don't think Asmon was attacked by his fanbase. Fan's don't do that. Hatewatchers do.
This is something that would have resolved itself quickly too I feel, should this have been the finished game and not just an Alpha test.
Cause then he would have been a major, the rat-roach King, surrounded by his minions and retainers and they would have slaughtered those inferior creatures who would dare to bark and bite at him.
His balding, shining head would have reflected the sunlight and highlighted the bloody puddles.
I can already see it. Glorious!

Back to topic:

I think the PvP aspect is okay. Indeed you are not part of a certain side, like in WoW for example.
And even in WoW, while on a PvP servers or on a PvE server on which PvP was enabled, I did not necessarily fought the other faction people.

Only when I was in the mood. Ironically I often helped Horde players as an Alliance player.
Why? Oh well, for many factors.
+ Fun
+ the reverse expecations effect
+ and the simple fact that this makes an encounter that much more memorable
Aszkalon was even contacted by a player from another faction afterwards and THANKED for helping instead of exploiting the situation, as he easily could have been.

In Ashes you will have a feeling of "us against them" but you will have to create or find this "us" first.
Your future guildmates! And who will you fight against with them?
Other guilds and their members, most probably.

Although I do have to say this sounds so wierd to me. It feels kinda lore-contradictive.
But I guess it is what it is. Since every player who returns to Verra from whatever other world after some sort of cataclysm had taken place, I feel they should all belong to the same nations and banners on the other side.
So when guilds become hostile to other people, this feels like they have become a Mafia.
And the bad guys in that sense.

It feels wierd to me that griefing is a concept, punished by corruption but you can declare node-war's and attack caravan's and there is no corruption involved for whatever reason.
Either that or this has also changed by now.
Which I doubt it will though.
Since it seems Ashes is supposed to have complete PvP dominance in area's like the sea's for example, or during something like a caravan travel again.

The us against them feel will exist yeah but I can see how it will feel distorted and contradictive.

Roanator

Today there was online yelling and screaming between people.
At first it was unclear but then omstond us understood it.

One guild started to PvP farm another…with a group banking solo players who didn’t even know the fight was on.
The screaming was about honor from one side…and the other side yelling back…we can test what we want…take it up with your GM.

This is what we see now for the second time in less then one week.

The players attacked tried doing something back but they got picked out one by one.
Levels 15+ ganging players under 10 in groups.
It was an awsome display of what we might get…and I still hope I am so wrong.

Chicago

Agree, I wish we had factions

Uncommon Sense

Dripyula wrote: »

Uncommon Sense wrote: »

Asmond was not attacked by people, he was attacked by his "fanbase"

I don't think Asmon was attacked by his fanbase. Fan's don't do that. Hatewatchers do.
.

I did use quotes on "fanbase" His actual fans still show up like flies on a pile of poop they just don't want kill him...

Chicago wrote: »

Agree, I wish we had factions

Factions are trash and inevitably lead to imbalance. But if you want to KOS Tulnar be my guest.

Noaani

Roanator wrote: »

Levels 15+ ganging players under 10 in groups.
It was an awsome display of what we might get…and I still hope I am so wrong.

None of the systems intended to deter this kind of thing are in place yet.

Taleof2Cities

Roanator wrote: »

Levels 15+ ganging players under 10 in groups.
It was an awsome display of what we might get…and I still hope I am so wrong.

No … no it was not an awesome display of what we might get.

As Noaani said, the corruption system isn’t currently fully working as intended.

Bottom Line: There will be challenging PvE in Ashes … but not anywhere in the overland areas. Those are PvX.

Best set your expectations now so you’re not disappointed at launch.

Lomir

Hi, I am an old DAOC-veteran, too. I feel exactly (!) like you! I miss the 3-realm concept so much and maybe this is one of the reasons, I did not touch Everquest.
I also miss more races and those races should be in-native to certain lands and a realm! In DAOC we had unique races, which you could only play, if you chose realm X. In AOC we will all be thrown together like in New Frontiers.

I also share your fears! There is no incentive. Identity in a PvP-game, for me, is strictly connected to land and realm and specific races, that is so-to-say some core-historic-human thing. We play some sort of "middle age" stuff and in those ages we did not mix everything together, but the north fought against the south, as did the vikings vs. the romans, whatever. This is completely missing in AOC ;(

Veeshan

Dripyula wrote: »

Uncommon Sense wrote: »

Asmond was not attacked by people, he was attacked by his "fanbase"

I don't think Asmon was attacked by his fanbase. Fan's don't do that. Hatewatchers do.

Hatewatchers are a fanbase just the other side of the coin but there the same. Some also did it just so they can say i killed asmon in x game :P

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