Make Guards attack people during Node Wars.

It is annoying logging into a town that you are a citizen of and then getting instantly killed. Why are the guards not attacking the enemy players that declared war on the node? It would be nice if they would have to fight the guards first instead of being allowed to just walk into the node and kill people.

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Otr

Also attackers could hire mercenaries or guards of their own to help attack like in sieges.
Even though I think wiki mentions the mercenaries as defense NPCs only, not for attack purpose.

But they can be killed; and again you can upgrade guards through policies, through upgrades within the barracks structures; and you can even place mercenaries and guards ahead of certain events.[5] – Steven Sharif

Mercenary NPCs can be hired to participate in node and castle sieges.[24][25][26][27]

Varying tiers of mercenary NPCs may be unlocked based on the investment made in their progression. Highest tier NPC mercenaries are referred to as heros.[28][29][25][26]
Mayors are able to allocate treasury funding to hire mercenary NPCs to defend their node during sieges.[26][27]

Siege NPCs

Siege NPCs, NPC guards, and mercenary NPCs serve as defense points during sieges and other events.[31]

Upgrades to the node's Barracks may allow a garrison of siege NPCs to be spawned in the event of an attack.[31]

Mercenary NPCs can be hired in advance.[31] They are intended to be a significant presence but not the main line of defense in a siege.[34]
[32]

unknownsystemerror

Node wars are not sieges. Two different mechanics with different outcomes and goals.

Songcaller

Negative. PvP was sick in Conan. Then PvP ranks were added and the PvP was mental. Then nooks cried for NPC guards. Indestructible NPC guards were added. PVP became a cat and mouse chase between Indestructible guards which sucked hard.

Laetitian

What people advocating for hireable NPCs for PvP (and any similar defensive NPCs) should envision is the scenario where a 30 player force meets a 30 player force, but instead of finally having a balanced battle for once, the outcome is decided by who has more, or more advantageously positioned, NPCs.

It's incredibly disappointing and makes PvP feel like it will never matter in a way that's satisfying.

It's one thing when one side outnumbers the other. At least that has something to do with PvP; someone motivated those players to show up to a common cause.
But non-player advantages should be purely strategic and not central to the main battleground.

So if there is something in the city that's related to the war, then it should be feasible for a player army to get to that objective without the defenders being disproportionately advantaged.

Veeshan

Songcaller wrote: »

Negative. PvP was sick in Conan. Then PvP ranks were added and the PvP was mental. Then nooks cried for NPC guards. Indestructible NPC guards were added. PVP became a cat and mouse chase between Indestructible guards which sucked hard.

the guards dont hit incredibly hard so there not to much of a deterrent how ever they should defend the node there apart of during a node war so yeas they should help people in node when in a node war should they be one shotting everyone no but that dont atm so there fine in power level they just tanky as.

Node wars and guild wars also need a count down time of like 5 minutes atleast so they cant be used to drop a war to gank somone crafting without them having a chance to react.

Songcaller

Why are you crafting during a node war when a node war is only prime time hours?

TheCodFatha

My main point is even if there are no guards during node wars or NPC's that you can hire it would be nice to have a protection when you log in if there is a war going on.

I don't want to be instantly killed as soon as I log in by someone who is attacking the node that I am apart of.

Having a 2 - 5 minute window where you cant be attacked would be ideal. and once you attack someone it goes away.

Veeshan

Songcaller wrote: »

Why are you crafting during a node war when a node war is only prime time hours?

issue is attacking side walks into town goes to crafting benches instantly drop war dec kills everyone who not prepared in town and then camp the respawn point. the fact there no timer when a war is dropped is actualy a huge issue right now imo since it only favors one side who has time to prepare where defenders get no heads up and can be killed within seconds of a war dec occuring due to one side knowing about it and the others dont

Aszkalon

unknownsystemerror wrote: »

Node wars are not sieges.

Look, i think i understand what you mean, but ... ... ...

P~RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRETTY sure, that if you suddenly stand before your "Enemy Node", or go INTO the Enemy Node,

and then suddenly start to massacre Players inside that Node -> that is p~RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRETTY equivalent and kinda the same as You "sieging" that Node.

Arya_Yeshe

I have experience in this like very few have around here:

It is horrible fighting your war targets while having npc police, npc guards, faction army/navy annoying you. Police should be for crimes only, not for wars!!!

Even when I am the smaller group in a war trying to punch up against the bigger group then I will have npc police chasing me? Give me break!

Wars should be fought by armies and the army here are the players! It is the players who have to organize and form their defense or die off and disband, go join better groups.

daveywavey

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

I have experience in this like very few have around here:

It is horrible fighting your war targets while having npc police, npc guards, faction army/navy annoying you. Police should be for crimes only, not for wars!!!

Even when I am the smaller group in a war trying to punch up against the bigger group then I will have npc police chasing me? Give me break!

Wars should be fought by armies and the army here are the players! It is the players who have to organize and form their defense or die off and disband, go join better groups.

But, why would a node guard not protect their node?

daveywavey

Veeshan wrote: »

Songcaller wrote: »

Why are you crafting during a node war when a node war is only prime time hours?

issue is attacking side walks into town goes to crafting benches instantly drop war dec kills everyone who not prepared in town and then camp the respawn point. the fact there no timer when a war is dropped is actualy a huge issue right now imo since it only favors one side who has time to prepare where defenders get no heads up and can be killed within seconds of a war dec occuring due to one side knowing about it and the others dont

Yep, the node war we had declared on us lasted just a few minutes. It was pathetic. I'd have been embarrassed to deploy it in that state! Hahaha

Noaani

Game mechanics and what has happend in other games aside - it is really weird that node guards don't fight back against people they are supposed to be at war with. Guards are not police - but even police are expected to fight back in the event of an invasion.

In my opinion, they should fight back simply because that is what makes sense. With that in mind, you build the system around this. It would mean that if you want to take a node war to the rival nodes actual town, then you need to bring a large force. If you find yourself in a node war and are not in said large force, you don't go inside the town you are at war with.

Arya_Yeshe

daveywavey wrote: »

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

I have experience in this like very few have around here:

It is horrible fighting your war targets while having npc police, npc guards, faction army/navy annoying you. Police should be for crimes only, not for wars!!!

Even when I am the smaller group in a war trying to punch up against the bigger group then I will have npc police chasing me? Give me break!

Wars should be fought by armies and the army here are the players! It is the players who have to organize and form their defense or die off and disband, go join better groups.

But, why would a node guard not protect their node?

It's not so much about logic, if we follow plain logic then the guards should defend the node.

Since we are talking about having then the we need chaos and pvp inside the node and the players should organized themselves just a militia and fight off attackers, and thats big brains design

I would agree on having things like this:

player can ring the town bell so everybody hear that attackers are in the town
player can find a guard and the guard would come along your side just like a companion and fight alongside you
mayor could summon a platoon and the mayor go fight attackers bringing the town guard with him

No brainless npc guards should exist actively chasing people

That's all, this kind of design is very soft and not very npc intrusive, this also adds content

Would appreciate if anyone could batphone Intrepid about this post I just did here

Laetitian

Noaani wrote: »

With that in mind, you build the system around this. It would mean that if you want to take a node war to the rival nodes actual town, then you need to bring a large force. If you find yourself in a node war and are not in said large force, you don't go inside the town you are at war with.

Yes, as long as the number of guards assigned per city is also justified by the significance and player-defensibility that the town already has as a siege target. If 40 players can't possibly take the objective against 30 players because of the NPCs, there are never going to be any interesting fights for objectives, especially bonus ones like relics. They'll only ever be attempted when the defenders are outnumbered 2:1 or more. While those defences can be fun, they shouldn't be what the game wants to encourage by making guard-PvE a bigger factor in the defence than players who cared show up at the right location.

Songcaller

This is another pve vs pvp issue. The players are the guards in a player driven world. Yet, post after post making the game pve.

mzedorion

I agree that the guards should attack enemies of the node. Not only does it make more sense, it also helps the game world feel more alive, and less static like nearly every other MMORPG out there.
That's what true RPGs are about, making you feel like you're part of the world, not just a mindless zombie grinding for exp and gear.

And if the main worry is having it be unbalanced by 'indestructible npcs', well they can just make them you know... destructible... the NPC Guards could easily be set up so that they can be killed and have a long respawn timer, players would then have to build their strategies around this. They could even start the guards off fairly weak and must be 'trained' (upgraded) through the node to be a real match for players.
There is many ways it could be done, and balanced, so that it adds a new level of strategy to wars, thus making the game more fun overall.

Besides if I just wanted another linear, roller coaster/cookie cutter MMORPG, I'd be playing one of the MANY that already exist. I hope Ashes will be different, and not just be WoW, with Nodes.

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