[BARD] dps

Hello, I'm interested in the Bard and I had a few questions.

Can the Bard be played as a true DPS in both PvE and PvP?

When I say "true DPS," I mean choosing skills and gear specifically to maximize damage — is that a viable option compared to other classes that are defined as pure DPS (like Mage, Fighter, etc.)?

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

Apok

Right now and I don't know if it plans to stay this way but each of the 8 archetypes play as a kit like in ffxiv, at 25 you're only missing maybe a couple abilities or can swap between a couple choices on the skill trees.

tbh I'm not liking the skills that much, as fun as they are everything is just a rotation. I don't play bard but I know they have a lot of good skills for PvP, I doubt you can equip them to do any sustained dps over time (mostly falls on skills) but at the end of the day you have a bag of tricks and everyone else playing that archetype has the same bag

what they have is very underwhelming it's mostly stacking damage and learning your kit.

Tamalou

Thanks for your reply, Apok, but I didn’t understand what you meant.

Apok

Tamalou wrote: »

Thanks for your reply, Apok, but I didn’t understand what you meant.

So you have a set of abilities, this would be your "Kit" once you hit 25 you have the same abilities as every other bard, Bard only has a couple skills that do damage so compared to a real DPS class you won't be able to build Bard into an actual DPS because you're limited on your skill set.

Stats won't change much of the dynamics of your play style because all you're doing is raising and lowering stats, there's no customization when it comes to abilities meaning all bards will do around the same DPS when comparing it to an actual DPS class.

Tamalou

That's very clear, thank you. The bard will never have the DPS of a true DPS class, that's understood. His kit allows him to hold his own in combat. It's more the combination of his lower DPS with his tools that makes him an effective class in PvP.

Ty

Azherae

Oof, if it matters, know that Apok's response is kinda misleading...

Okay, really misleading...

But the short version is still correct, Bard does not currently 'build DPS' and for now doesn't have too many 'personal DPS vs group support' tradeoffs. (originally had more but some were tweaked/removed).

We don't know the intent very well anymore, but the Archetype is nowhere near 'finished' and the Classes that will come from it even less so. But the foundation did allow for this in the usual sense, before, and then it got dialed back.

Maybe some of their DPS-flavor will come back in later Phases, maybe it won't.

Apok

Azherae wrote: »

Oof, if it matters, know that Apok's response is kinda misleading...

Okay, really misleading...

But the short version is still correct, Bard does not currently 'build DPS' and for now doesn't have too many 'personal DPS vs group support' tradeoffs. (originally had more but some were tweaked/removed).

We don't know the intent very well anymore, but the Archetype is nowhere near 'finished' and the Classes that will come from it even less so. But the foundation did allow for this in the usual sense, before, and then it got dialed back.

Maybe some of their DPS-flavor will come back in later Phases, maybe it won't.

I see how it could be be miss leading, for clarification I just wish archetypes would have more identity to them before hitting the shift into becoming an actual class/job at 25+. I'm down for whatever way they want to do it, we just don't know if they are and if they are, how it will be done.

maybe something like a more flushed out weapon skill system that gives access to actual abilities, for example give the greatsword 4 skills that would be similar to some fighter skills, wouldn't be worth it to the fighter to get maybe one of these that fits their build but something like a bard can spec into all 4 to combine with whatever faction/race bonus plus some skilltree and gear optimization you'll be able to build your dps bard.

Azherae

Apok wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

Oof, if it matters, know that Apok's response is kinda misleading...

Okay, really misleading...

But the short version is still correct, Bard does not currently 'build DPS' and for now doesn't have too many 'personal DPS vs group support' tradeoffs. (originally had more but some were tweaked/removed).

We don't know the intent very well anymore, but the Archetype is nowhere near 'finished' and the Classes that will come from it even less so. But the foundation did allow for this in the usual sense, before, and then it got dialed back.

Maybe some of their DPS-flavor will come back in later Phases, maybe it won't.

I see how it could be be miss leading, for clarification I just wish archetypes would have more identity to them before hitting the shift into becoming an actual class/job at 25+. I'm down for whatever way they want to do it, we just don't know if they are and if they are, how it will be done.

maybe something like a more flushed out weapon skill system that gives access to actual abilities, for example give the greatsword 4 skills that would be similar to some fighter skills, wouldn't be worth it to the fighter to get maybe one of these that fits their build but something like a bard can spec into all 4 to combine with whatever faction/race bonus plus some skilltree and gear optimization you'll be able to build your dps bard.

Another case where 'this isn't really the forum for that'.

Combat/play/classes wise, this is just asking for TL, and I'm sure if Intrepid thought it was a good idea for their combat design to be closer to that, they'd have changed it years ago, so yeah, you're just another person stuck in the limbo between Ashes of Creation and Throne and Liberty.

And, back at OP, Ashes will probably get there, they have a great Archetype designer putting in stacks of work, but the current form will take a while to evolve to that.

Apok

Azherae wrote: »

Apok wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

Oof, if it matters, know that Apok's response is kinda misleading...

Okay, really misleading...

But the short version is still correct, Bard does not currently 'build DPS' and for now doesn't have too many 'personal DPS vs group support' tradeoffs. (originally had more but some were tweaked/removed).

We don't know the intent very well anymore, but the Archetype is nowhere near 'finished' and the Classes that will come from it even less so. But the foundation did allow for this in the usual sense, before, and then it got dialed back.

Maybe some of their DPS-flavor will come back in later Phases, maybe it won't.

I see how it could be be miss leading, for clarification I just wish archetypes would have more identity to them before hitting the shift into becoming an actual class/job at 25+. I'm down for whatever way they want to do it, we just don't know if they are and if they are, how it will be done.

maybe something like a more flushed out weapon skill system that gives access to actual abilities, for example give the greatsword 4 skills that would be similar to some fighter skills, wouldn't be worth it to the fighter to get maybe one of these that fits their build but something like a bard can spec into all 4 to combine with whatever faction/race bonus plus some skilltree and gear optimization you'll be able to build your dps bard.

Another case where 'this isn't really the forum for that'.

Combat/play/classes wise, this is just asking for TL, and I'm sure if Intrepid thought it was a good idea for their combat design to be closer to that, they'd have changed it years ago, so yeah, you're just another person stuck in the limbo between Ashes of Creation and Throne and Liberty.

And, back at OP, Ashes will probably get there, they have a great Archetype designer putting in stacks of work, but the current form will take a while to evolve to that.

I've never even touched TL I just want a game that actually requires a brain to play

Azherae

Apok wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

Apok wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

Oof, if it matters, know that Apok's response is kinda misleading...

Okay, really misleading...

But the short version is still correct, Bard does not currently 'build DPS' and for now doesn't have too many 'personal DPS vs group support' tradeoffs. (originally had more but some were tweaked/removed).

We don't know the intent very well anymore, but the Archetype is nowhere near 'finished' and the Classes that will come from it even less so. But the foundation did allow for this in the usual sense, before, and then it got dialed back.

Maybe some of their DPS-flavor will come back in later Phases, maybe it won't.

I see how it could be be miss leading, for clarification I just wish archetypes would have more identity to them before hitting the shift into becoming an actual class/job at 25+. I'm down for whatever way they want to do it, we just don't know if they are and if they are, how it will be done.

maybe something like a more flushed out weapon skill system that gives access to actual abilities, for example give the greatsword 4 skills that would be similar to some fighter skills, wouldn't be worth it to the fighter to get maybe one of these that fits their build but something like a bard can spec into all 4 to combine with whatever faction/race bonus plus some skilltree and gear optimization you'll be able to build your dps bard.

Another case where 'this isn't really the forum for that'.

Combat/play/classes wise, this is just asking for TL, and I'm sure if Intrepid thought it was a good idea for their combat design to be closer to that, they'd have changed it years ago, so yeah, you're just another person stuck in the limbo between Ashes of Creation and Throne and Liberty.

And, back at OP, Ashes will probably get there, they have a great Archetype designer putting in stacks of work, but the current form will take a while to evolve to that.

I've never even touched TL I just want a game that actually requires a brain to play

Yeah that's kinda my point actually. Anyways sorry, I got carried away. All I meant/want is for OP to understand that even if we ask for Intrepid to do some of the things you said, it's less likely because they basically 'just don't want to' (as far as we know).

There may be Bard DPS, there may even be Greatsword Bard DPS for those who think that makes sense, but using weapons as a distinction-point for skills isn't in the concepts, so most people's definition of 'fleshed out weapon skill system' isn't likely.

daveywavey

Apok wrote: »

maybe something like a more flushed out weapon skill system that gives access to actual abilities

This would make combat feel a lot more interesting, to me. There are large periods where you're just Auto-Attacking, sitting still and watching the character do stuff for you, rather than playing it yourself. And that feels weird.

Vyllz

Hey Tamalou! Great question, a lot of us are curious about how far the Bard can go in terms of raw damage.

From what’s been shared so far by Intrepid, the Bard is primarily a support archetype, focused on buffs, debuffs, and utility, not pure DPS. That said, you will likely be able to customize your Bard to lean more offensively, especially through augments, gear, and your secondary archetype.

For example:

A Bard/Fighter or Bard/Rogue combo might allow you to build more aggressively for damage.

Your gear choices (crit, attack speed, weapon type) can push you further toward DPS viability.

But even then, it’s unlikely that Bard will ever match the burst or sustained damage of dedicated DPS archetypes like Mage or Fighter.

So yes, you can build toward DPS Bard, especially for fun or niche PvP roles, but if your goal is to top DPS charts consistently, it may not be the most optimal pick.

Still, the flexibility is one of the coolest parts of Ashes, so it’ll be exciting to see how far creative players can push the Bard in that direction.

daveywavey

We were promised that Bard wouldn't just be a Buff Bot, though...

SmileGurney

Despite Intrepid's nerfs to the bard's damage kit, bard can still do decent burst damage, but you need the Resonance stacks for that. Most of the old bard's damage abilities do comical damage atm, and serve more as a utility and a way to build R stacks. For me bard plays more like a trickster, you can serve some damage, but you have plenty of utility to buff yourself and allies, apply some debuff to enemies and CC. In small scale you aim to kite the enemy, outlast them, apply CC and fish for a nice opportunity to burst them down or wear them down, depending on a class you are fighting. Except R stacks, Dark Lullaby used to be a decent way to burst down an enemy, but required some setup, but these days it does terrible damage, and its barely worth putting on the ability bar.

Child Item