[ROGUE] melee weapons

As a rogue player, I don't understand the added value of daggers compared to 2H weapons. Can more experienced players help me out? Because right now, 2H seems way more OP to me.

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Vyllz

Hello Tamalou! Nice to meet you!. Right now, 2H weapons do feel really strong with their burst and reach. Daggers, on the other hand, are more about speed, mobility, and sustained pressure. They’re likely meant for fast-paced, surgical strikes, not trading blows, but weaving in and out, catching people off guard, especially in group fights or PvP flanking.

That said, we’re still in Alpha Two, a lot of things are being tested, balanced, and changed constantly. What feels OP now might not stay that way, and dagger builds could evolve a lot as augments, passives, and rogue synergies get refined.

When we get closer to release, things will (hopefully) feel more in line and better tuned across weapon types. So I’d say: keep testing, give feedback, and let’s see where the devs take it!

Tamalou

I agree, but as it stands, daggers don’t offer any real advantage in terms of mobility. Sure, they provide faster attack speed, but that doesn’t translate into shorter cast times or reduced enemy reaction windows. The main benefit of that speed is to trigger finishers , yet it takes 5 to 6 hits with daggers, compared to only 3 with a two-hander. In the end, the time required to reach a finisher is roughly the same.

Additionally, two-handed weapons benefit from attack speed bonuses at the end of their talent tree, further boosting their ability to trigger finishers quickly. Daggers, on the other hand, only offer a modest crit bonus , which only comes into play once a finisher has been activated. So they don’t really provide any upfront burst potential at the start of a fight.

Right now, daggers feel noticeably underwhelming.

Now, I know we’re still in alpha , but falling back on that argument all the time doesn’t really help. In my opinion, it actually hinders discussion and makes it harder to highlight areas that could genuinely benefit from improvement. This is precisely the moment to raise these issues so the devs can get clear and actionable feedback.

I realize my tone may come off a bit harsh here , that wasn’t my intention at all, so apologies if it reads that way

Azherae

I think they're being conservative/cautious, because it's really easy to make daggers a source of complaining.

I think most MMO players expect/agree that Daggers are the 'on-Hit' weapon. They either apply debuffs on most hits or trigger effects that are on the enemy which 'pop' when you hit them.

In games where the daggers are themselves a form of 'limitation' on Rogues, this might be lessened, but in AoC where everyone can use everything, they have the opportunity to go in the other direction, and let the Daggers shine as the main on-Hit build weapon of choice.

For this purpose, it wouldn't really require the Finisher to be different, the issue would be 'the lack of the on-Hit function'.

I've seen this play out this way in many games as a dagger user myself quite often. Tuning and balancing on-Hit stuff is hard so it gets done later, and for Ashes, which needs to consider this across all 8 Archetypes, I'm sure it would be even more.

I think this is one of those cases where 'it's an alpha' is actually a fair answer (though I'm not disagreeing at all with telling them that they're not really doing much right now, they did ask, after all)

My contribution is the same as always, Intrepid. Darkblighter is great. Minzerok's Daggers are great. Venom hit stacking... you know the deal. If Daggers are doing little to none of that, they're just going to feel like you added them for the sake of it, which is fine at this stage as long as you're clear that it's underwhelming, as Tamalou says.

If your intent is for Rogues to use Spears or Greatswords or Warhammers too, I'm not against it, but obviously the dagger-dance people need something.

willsummon

Tamalou wrote: »

As a rogue player, I don't understand the added value of daggers compared to 2H weapons. Can more experienced players help me out? Because right now, 2H seems way more OP to me.

Dual wielding offers stable damage per second, where as a large slower weapon offer burst damage per second.

It is likely, depending on the secondary class the Rogue is paired with will effect what weapons the Rogue can use with their abilities.

Veeshan

weapon skills tree seem rather place holdery aswell so might see more bonuses for attack speed weapons in there in the future atm slow and heaby hitting weapons seems to give more benefit in most situations

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