TTK Changes Have Shifted PvP Away From Skill — And It Shows

Before the recent TTK (Time to Kill) changes, PvP felt dynamic and rewarding.
Yes, there were isolated cases of players one-shotting others, but in general, if you were skilled and geared properly, you could 1v2, 1v3, and occasionally even 1v4 depending on your opponents' gear and mechanical ability. There was a real sense that good play — timing, positioning, smart cooldown usage — made the difference.

Now, post-TTK update... things feel very different.
Even with better gear and significant mechanical advantage, it is incredibly hard to 1v2, let alone 1v3+.
The healing output is still absurd, even after "adjustments," and it’s no longer a matter of "outplaying" someone — it's about who can outlast the other in a drawn-out, skill-diluted slog.

It's not that I'm suddenly bad at PvP. I'm still difficult to kill — it takes groups a long time — but without the ability to burst players effectively, the odds of killing a moderately coordinated duo (healer + anything) are near-zero unless you're in a properly built group comp yourself. Worse, it feels impossible to isolate and punish misplays: even if someone badly misuses a skill or gets caught out of position, you simply can’t capitalize fast enough before healing or CC recovery bails them out.

This shift overwhelmingly favors:

Zerg groups.

Lesser-skilled players who can now simply outlast and overwhelm.

Group compositions over individual skill expression.

In short:
PvP is no longer about who plays better — it's about who brings more people.
And frankly, that’s a step backward.

I'd much rather a system where if I misuse a skill or misposition, I lose — and likewise, if they do, they lose. That’s what skill-based PvP should feel like. Instead, we have a system where individual mechanical play barely matters unless you already have the right comp behind you.

It’s frustrating because it's not a skill issue or a gear issue — in fact, it's the opposite. Superior skill and gear are getting negated simply by mechanical TTK limits and insane sustain.

Suggestion: Bring back meaningful burst windows.
Let good players punish mistakes again.
Reward mechanical skill, not numbers stacking.

PvP should be thrilling, fast, and rewarding for mastery — not a heal-tank-zerg parade.

I do understand devs are still balancing the stats/classes out, and that is another issue. We only have access to lvl 25, missing a class, and missing archetypes, as well lvl 50 gear etc. Meaning, they will have to rebalance the game once we get these things... I don't get why they did the TTK changes before summoner at least to properly balance all base classes at least right?

BUT DO YOU WANT THIS GAME TO FAVOR OR PUNISH ZERG LIKE GAME PLAY????
DEATH TO ZERGS!

Also Rogues/Tanks/Bards are still OPOP . Nerf more thanks.

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Comments

kingofcanadatv

Zergs are so trash. Most of them are super low-skill-cap casual players who are lazy and just outnumber others to win fights — even if that means bringing 100x more people.
This will kill the game if the devs keep making changes that heavily favor zerg gameplay.
This zerg nonsense needs to be addressed somehow, and I think before P3 comes out, a good test will be Fresh — with all the new alliance zerg guilds that will be joining there.
That should clearly show the devs the stupid power of zerging versus skilled players.

We need to favor skilled players over zergs. Legit, fuck zergs.
I understand casuals bring the most money into a game, but catering too hard to casuals is also what kills most MMOs.

Ludullu

So the game went from "I'm a god who can kill several people solo" to "it's all about party pvp"? Sounds like literally what they promised the game to be.

As for zergs, ttk itself has nothing to do with it. We need to limit buffs/heals to party-only and add more mana-based gameplay.

If you can kill groups of people in only a few shots - zerg can literally do the same to you, except now the entire rest of the game is shit as well, because people can kill each other in just a few shots.

Winning against the zerg should be about strategy, tactic and proper movement - not one-shotting masses of people.

ShaggyRyn

I like the idea of gameplay based off of 3-7 person parties and adjusting ttk around that. I do think Zerg gameplay is boring and skilless. Killing people fast should be centered around coordination and cooldown of abilities. You should be able to tell when someone pops cooldown and be able to react with CC, defensives, or your own cooldowns.

zbitango

Ludullu wrote: »

So the game went from "I'm a god who can kill several people solo" to "it's all about party pvp"? Sounds like literally what they promised the game to be.

As for zergs, ttk itself has nothing to do with it. We need to limit buffs/heals to party-only and add more mana-based gameplay.

If you can kill groups of people in only a few shots - zerg can literally do the same to you, except now the entire rest of the game is shit as well, because people can kill each other in just a few shots.

Winning against the zerg should be about strategy, tactic and proper movement - not one-shotting masses of people.

Not suggesting one shots again, but punish players for not using skills correctly etc. in group pvp. I get the game is about GROUP PVP.
Gear should have a lot more weight to it, people wearing lvl 10-20 greens shouldn't be able to contest people in the new Epic+ gear after TTK changes. People that are not even 100 power and no mit/armor etc. shouldn't pose a threat to a player with full epic heavy/medium gear with correct stats, EVEN if the player with less gear out skills them . Otherwise why get the gear? Just be better skilled an win without gear then?

Being killed open world by 4+ players in basically vendor gear while u have full new bis epic + shouldn't be a thing correct..... YUP.

BUT I do love the TTK changes for sieges/wars . Just not open world zerg type gameplay, remove favoring the zergs open world some how and make gear matter more?

Healing is OPOP, I do agree limit healing some how to zergs...

I am good with even fights 5v5 / 8v8 / 40v40 etc. but when a group simply wins because they bring 5v15 and zerg you open world with lesser gear/skill that shit is annoying .. We suppose to just get more people as oppose to better gear or just get better or out strategize them some how even though they out number you and can just heal full quickly even f you focus targets? o what "move better" .. ? IDK.

Stat balance might address some of these issues, such as lifesteal for example, or evasion stat, two very OP stats currently and I suspect they will be tuned down quite a bit from what they are currently.

I 100% understand changes are coming and still being made, but feedback is needed in depth to get what everyone wants for release. So talking about the issues that come up help mold/shape the game hopefully .

zbitango

ShaggyRyn wrote: »

I like the idea of gameplay based off of 3-7 person parties and adjusting ttk around that. I do think Zerg gameplay is boring and skilless. Killing people fast should be centered around coordination and cooldown of abilities. You should be able to tell when someone pops cooldown and be able to react with CC, defensives, or your own cooldowns.

THIS. FACTS. Thanks for the input . 100% agree with this.

Ludullu

zbitango wrote: »

Not suggesting one shots again, but punish players for not using skills correctly etc. in group pvp. I get the game is about GROUP PVP.

Yes, we definitely need proper group synergy that requires higher skill to successfully execute. But I feel like that will come closer to endgame (if it's even still planned for the game).

zbitango wrote: »

Being killed open world by 4+ players in basically vendor gear while u have full new bis epic + shouldn't be a thing correct..... YUP.

Well, we highly disagree on that, so I got nothing to say there.

ShaggyRyn

zbitango wrote: »

Being killed open world by 4+ players in basically vendor gear while u have full new bis epic + shouldn't be a thing correct..... YUP.

I think a group of 4+ players should be able to compete with a fully geared person if they are coordinating. You shouldn’t be able to one shot them all maybe not people with basic gear but I think it’s a good thing that under geared should be able to fight back.

Azherae

Can you provide more context/data please? It's unfortunately easy to just assume it's a matchup problem or something, since TTK is longer in some other games and those games let people 1v3 fine.

Imnotkio

L take

GreatPhilisopher

last time i checked gear should be 40-50% of a player power so its good that a group of weaker players can kill higher leveled ones

Noaani

zbitango wrote: »

Being killed open world by 4+ players in basically vendor gear while u have full new bis epic + shouldn't be a thing correct..... YUP.

It absolutely should be a thing.

Assuming equal skill and level, best in slot gear should put you at no more than an even footing with two players in the worst easily obtainable gear. Three such geared players should have a fairly easy time, and four should literally be able to steamroll over you.

SmileGurney

zbitango wrote: »

Lesser-skilled players who can now simply outlast and overwhelm.

Group compositions over individual skill expression.[/b]

Sounds to me like you were outplayed by players able to use their kit better than you can, both in 1v1 and in group pvp. Good group composition is as important if not more than individual skill expression, as it involves applying the knowledge about the game to coordinate group pvp which is more complex than 1v1 combat.

ZYBAK

I'm not sure I could disagree more with a post. The old TTK was unbelievably low skill. The fights were so short that RNG crits and literally being the first person to start attacking weighed heavily in the outcome.

The new TTK is better in every single way imaginable. When the fights are longer and good players have more time to make superior decisions against bad players. You can also tell much easier who is actually good at the game when it takes more than 3-4 buttons to kill someone.

You could train a literal chimp to play mage at 600 spell power in the old TTK and he would be lethal.

xMrWoolf

zbitango wrote: »

Gear should have a lot more weight to it, people wearing lvl 10-20 greens shouldn't be able to contest people in the new Epic+ gear after TTK changes. People that are not even 100 power and no mit/armor etc. shouldn't pose a threat to a player with full epic heavy/medium gear with correct stats, EVEN if the player with less gear out skills them . Otherwise why get the gear? Just be better skilled an win without gear then?

such a terrible take on how a mmo should be.. you think you should just win by default becuase you got higher rarity gear? so you craft epic armor and no one in heroic or lower should pose a threat? such a terrible take on a PvX MMO. player skill should matter more and gear gives them a slight advantage at best, the bigger the gear difference the bigger the advantage and thats all. but a simple win factor over gear is terrible. sure a lvl 25 in lvl 10 gear all blues vrs a lvl 25 in all epic/legendary id expect to see a big gap in dmg and survivalbility. but to just say the guy in lesser gear should fall over and die because you tabbed on their name is bad design.

Birqa

xMrWoolf wrote: »

zbitango wrote: »

Gear should have a lot more weight to it, people wearing lvl 10-20 greens shouldn't be able to contest people in the new Epic+ gear after TTK changes. People that are not even 100 power and no mit/armor etc. shouldn't pose a threat to a player with full epic heavy/medium gear with correct stats, EVEN if the player with less gear out skills them . Otherwise why get the gear? Just be better skilled an win without gear then?

such a terrible take on how a mmo should be.. you think you should just win by default becuase you got higher rarity gear? so you craft epic armor and no one in heroic or lower should pose a threat? such a terrible take on a PvX MMO. player skill should matter more and gear gives them a slight advantage at best, the bigger the gear difference the bigger the advantage and thats all. but a simple win factor over gear is terrible. sure a lvl 25 in lvl 10 gear all blues vrs a lvl 25 in all epic/legendary id expect to see a big gap in dmg and survivalbility. but to just say the guy in lesser gear should fall over and die because you tabbed on their name is bad design.

THIS!

SmileGurney

ZYBAK wrote: »

I'm not sure I could disagree more with a post. The old TTK was unbelievably low skill. The fights were so short that RNG crits and literally being the first person to start attacking weighed heavily in the outcome.

The new TTK is better in every single way imaginable. When the fights are longer and good players have more time to make superior decisions against bad players. You can also tell much easier who is actually good at the game when it takes more than 3-4 buttons to kill someone.

You could train a literal chimp to play mage at 600 spell power in the old TTK and he would be lethal.

This covers the issue pretty well. Some people are just struggling to let go of the P2 experiences where you would press 2 buttons on dps classes and land a kill as a result. There might be an argument to be made that some of the dps classes need to be "slightly" deeper gameplay loops, but I don't want to upset anyone further.

Nerror

If anything, gear levels and quality should matter even less than they do now. The revamp of stats was a big step in the right direction. A person in greens should absolutely still have a good chance at killing the BiS legendary geared enemy. They need to be a better player obviously, but it has to be doable.

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