How Solo Players (Basically) Saved MMOs From Going Extinct

So I just watched this video called “How Solo Players Saved MMORPGs” and it honestly hit. Hard. Let's be honest here: MMOs have changed. Most of us aren’t teenagers anymore with endless time to commit to 5-hour raids, Discord politics, and guild drama. Life got busier. People wanted more flexibility. And the only ones really showing up consistently? The solo players.

MMOs Could’ve Died, But They Didn’t
If you look back, the genre almost flatlined. Games were shutting down. Studios were giving up. But the thing that kept so many of these worlds alive? The casuals. The solo crafters. The people who log in after work to fish, quest, and vibe alone. Not everyone wants to treat a game like a job. Those players kept the servers warm.

Solo Players Aren’t Asking to Play Alone Forever
No one’s saying MMOs should become single-player games. But a lot of us start solo. And when a game makes space for that kind of play, when it lets you get hooked on your own terms, you end up sticking around. You find your group eventually. You might even join a guild. But if the early experience is “join a zerg or fall behind,” that’s a hard pass for a lot of people.

Ashes Looks Incredible… But Also Intense
The systems look ambitious. The node stuff? Wild. But it feels like a game where solo players might just get left behind. It’s very guild-driven. Very grind-heavy. And I get it, that’s the vision. But man, if there’s no real way to feel useful or progress meaningfully on your own… I worry it’s gonna push away a lot of potential long-term players. Not everyone wants to be in a 300-person Discord just to enjoy a fantasy world.

My Hope?
That Ashes doesn’t forget the players who show up quietly and consistently. The ones who aren’t loud on forums or top of the DPS meter, but who log in, explore, gather, craft, and help keep the economy alive. The ones who kept the genre breathing. If this game can strike even a little balance, where solo players can still make progress, still feel relevant, and maybe even find their people over time, I think it’ll last a whole lot longer.

And yeah…
Someone might say, “Well then maybe this game isn’t for you.” And maybe they’re right. But it’s also still early days. Ashes could be something truly special. And I think it’d be a huge missed opportunity not to widen the door just a little, to welcome more kinds of players in.

VIDEO:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiQhzMZom5o

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Comments

Caww

The ability to jump in and out of an MMO on your own schedule while still being able to do something satisfying and progressive is a big draw for "solo" players (also known as time limited players) and is very important. Hopefully, AoC will allow such interaction.

Azherae

Wow that video was disingenuous...

I'm not gonna bother 'arguing against it' because I'm sure Intrepid is gonna be fine.

It's definitely 'true' in specific ways, but wow does it hinge on creating the idea of binary content relationships...

Ludullu

In other words, solo players didn't save mmos. They made them into single player games. The mmo genre is "dead" (mostly means a few dozen thousand players in several different proper mmos). All these current big "mmos" are just single player games with interactible (barely btw) npcs running around and spamming some bs in chat.

TheDarkSorcerer

Ludullu wrote: »

All these current big "mmos" are just single player games

Nah, I don’t agree. Games like GW2 and ESO prove you can be solo-friendly and still be a real MMO. GW2 is one of the most active MMOs in 2025, super chill for solo play but still full of group content and community.

Solo players didn’t kill MMOs. They kept them alive by making them more accessible. Not everyone wants to grind with a guild 24/7 just to have fun.

Aszkalon

TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »

Solo Players Aren’t Asking to Play Alone Forever

Our Man DarkSorcerer - reading my Thoughts here. As expected of the only Mage i ever feared. (lol)

TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »

No one’s saying MMOs should become single-player games. But a lot of us start solo. And when a game makes space for that kind of play, when it lets you get hooked on your own terms, you end up sticking around.

Exactly.
Dominant Words -> on your OWN terms.

For me that is simple. When i log into Ashes of Creation in estimated the End of 2027 or 2028 or later towards 2030 or so,

when i want to go fishing -> i want to be able to go fishing.
When i want to go exploring - i want to be able to go exploring.

When i want to experience a snowy, cold Winter Biome with beautiful blue or cloudy Skies, or unforgiving Snowstorms that FORCE my Character to take Cover from the harsh Cold and Wind,
i want to be able to go experience just that.

When i want to be a Highway Man Gangster ambushing a Caravan,
i want to be able to be a Highway Man Gangster ambushing a Caravan.

When i want to be able to be part of a certain Node,
a certain Guild,
a certain Group working to be, play - and exist around a Tavern, a Guildhouse, a Freehold, etc.

then i want to be able to join said Node and hopefully the Group of Players will accept me. Of Course i am aware i should join a Node as fast as i can and not as the last Person out of +200 or so -> because Taxes.

When i want to be able to be a Pirate, ambushing People on the Sea's and trying to steal their Stuff, Treasure, Fish, etc. - then i want to be able to do just that.

When i want to be a Caravan Defender, then i want to be able to just that.

When i want to join Raids to take on mighty Dragons, fearful Demons (Ancients), or a HUUUUUUUUUUGE Army of Undead terrorising the Land or so -> then i want to be able to do just that.

For me - Ashes of Creation is my Hope that i can finally have some Freedom back.

People would argue i have Freedom right now in Worst of Warcraft -> but actually Freedom there is very limited due to the Daily(Fomo)-Quest Nature of regular Content -> which You have to grind.

Same counts for Raids once a Week.
Same counts for PvP Rewards.

Oh Shiiii~t. I divagate.

At some Point -> i just want to be able to do again what i did during the Era of WoW Vanilla with others. Have a good Time with some People - and be it mainly Roleplay then this is okay and fine, too.

It bugs me a little bit -> that apparently something like a SMALL. PARADISE. is being patched into Worst of Warcraft next Year -> with Housing and Neighbourhoods.

Why ?
WHY are these Motherf~ers doing this NOW ???

now when i am already excited since the Middle of 2023 for the slowly more and more completed Game of Ashes of Creation which is still in it's Alpha State right now ?

I am "still" S~OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO going to change to Ashes , when it's finally going to near it's Release.

TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »

You find your group eventually. You might even join a guild. But if the early experience is “join a zerg or fall behind,” that’s a hard pass for a lot of people.

Call me Nuts or not -> but i think " THAT " is right now the greatest Threat for the whole Game.

The Thought that you are completely f~ed right from the Beginning, if you don't find a solid Guild in like the first Five Days or so.

THAT can make People quit the Game.

TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »

Ashes Looks Incredible… But Also Intense
The systems look ambitious. The node stuff? Wild. But it feels like a game where solo players might just get left behind. It’s very guild-driven. Very grind-heavy. And I get it, that’s the vision. But man, if there’s no real way to feel useful or progress meaningfully on your own…

A.B.S.O.L.U.T.E.L.Y.

TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »

I worry it’s gonna push away a lot of potential long-term players. Not everyone wants to be in a 300-person Discord just to enjoy a fantasy world.

I don't want to be in Discord at all.

It is with no exaggeration THE. UGLIEST. Interface i have seen in my entire Life since the turn of the Millennia when i started being in the Internet.

TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »

My Hope?
That Ashes doesn’t forget the players who show up quietly and consistently. The ones who aren’t loud on forums or top of the DPS meter, but who log in, explore, gather, craft, and help keep the economy alive. The ones who kept the genre breathing. If this game can strike even a little balance, where solo players can still make progress, still feel relevant, and maybe even find their people over time, I think it’ll last a whole lot longer.

Our Hope,
and i feel my Cope (lol) - flowing through my Veins and Arteries like it's my own Blood. I was lied to and disappointed so. often. and in fact nigh countlessly from Companies regarding Expectations for any Game out there,

-> one of the only Reasons i trust Sir Steven and his mighty Crew these Years -> is that i K.N.O.W. that they are different and that Sir Steven seems to desire a good Game same as ardently inside as i do.

TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »

And yeah…
Someone might say, “Well then maybe this game isn’t for you.” And maybe they’re right. But it’s also still early days. Ashes could be something truly special. And I think it’d be a huge missed opportunity not to widen the door just a little, to welcome more kinds of players in.

I couldn't have possibly wrote it any better and would like your Comment several times if i could. 🫡 . 🫡 . 🫡

Depraved

ill elaborate more later, but basically, since there is a limited space of players per server, the more you make the game solo friendly, the more solo players will join, and the less space will be for group oriented players. that's not to say the game should be 100% party/guild oriented though.

Reflet

The main problem I see about solo playing in Ashes solo, comes from the PVP side.
A solo player with little playing time available, is jumped on by a PK or a group of PK, he will spend his playing time running between the rez point and his body (if there is anything left to pick up). According to the actual corruption policy.
We'll have to see how PVP players will act ; blood thirsty PK, RP PVP,...

Azherae

We're at the point where this is all about 'optics' for those outside the main space of communities, honestly this is why I'm so glad Throne and Liberty didn't delay any longer and just started as soon as the base was ready, because now it gets a multi-year head start on a lot of similar games.

Halfassed content creators can still just throw out underthought takes about any game, but MMOs are particularly susceptible because they take time to get into no matter what you do, but positive coverage of most of them is just a 'yeah this game is good and a lot of people play it'.

What else could Ashes even add to make solo players more comfortable?

Farming? Solo gathering? Solo instanced boss challenges? Fishing? Sailing? Minigames? Group events? Player made music? Solo player economy niches? Faster leveling? More storyline than the entire Legacy of Kain series with all the spinoffs, combined? Beautiful vistas from the tops of mountains where you can look out over the landscape and see a rainbow? A world full of tiny cool things to find in nearly every spot you explore? Multiple Dungeons/PoIs with progressions that allow low-time players to move at their own pace?

A Dynamic content system that locks certain content behind a weekly serverwide progression point so that there's less incentive for the player who can't play as often to feel like they're in a race with the top players? Content capped to prevent the advantage of those players so that everyone can participate more evenly? Housing and decoration? More cosmetics? The ability to somehow earn cosmetics through ingame activity? A robust system that allows more invested players to support casual players within guilds?

A large variety of playstyles with a focus on slow, measured progression that is just at the point where you can feel advancement but also don't constantly feel the need to chase down every last stat point? A sense of community within a location in the game world and ties to in-universe organizations/characters to offer roleplay opportunities and bring players of similar minds/interests together?

Which of these things, in its intended design, does Ashes not already have?

And which of them is so 'solo player' friendly that we are at the point of bringing up 'solo players' as if these aren't things that are enjoyable to most MMO players, guild or solo?

The video (and to some extent the post) just goes 'I hope games are full of cool stuff that should be in an MMO' and then somehow implies that 'the people who like this cool stuff are mostly soloers'.

I'd say this is the opposite of what Ludullu said actually. The MMO genre didn't die because it was never very strong. Why? Because tons of people just want to imagine the concepts of this type of game but then either play it occasionally but don't say much (leading to what automatically looks like low numbers) or just watch/read fantasy content that can deliver things 'faster and with minimal friction'.

I guess 'How MMO players saved MMOs from going extinct' isn't a sensible grab, right?

Ludullu

TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »

Nah, I don’t agree. Games like GW2 and ESO prove you can be solo-friendly and still be a real MMO. GW2 is one of the most active MMOs in 2025, super chill for solo play but still full of group content and community.

We have differing opinions of what "a real mmo" is. To me, if you can clear the game and majority of its content w/o uttering a single word in chat - that's a single player game. Afaik both ESO and GW2 are exactly that. Hell, i'm pretty sure this video itself said so about ESO.

This is why I said that mmos are just single player games with chat-spam npcs in them. There's an illusions of something going on, but you don't need to interact with that illusion to experience the game.

And my biggest example of this kinda being true is Genshin's release. A shiiiitton of people thought Genshin was an mmo, because it had a multiplayer component, even though it was a completely solo game. If that's not an indication of "people think that mmos are just soloable games with other people in them" - I dunno what is.

Azherae

Even that still isn't quite useful to any dev tho, in the end.

An MMORPG is basically a world where other players affect something about the experience you have when you log in on any given day, and maybe you can extend it to 'you can talk to or negotiate with them about it'.

The 'Massively' part is related to things like persistence of game states in the world and the capacity for others to change the composition of areas, otherwise Monster Hunter World would count as an MMORPG and so would nearly any other game that has a multiplayer component, yes, but...

Even in the older days those games weren't really built for having too many players in one place affecting the same thing. Sure, some of them were, i.e. the ones Ashes 'draws its DNA from' but those ones hit the only probably 'real' issue in this thread, i.e. that a lot of players don't want other people to affect the world they are in and many of them are 'solo players' so conflation happens.

If you want that 'other people's actions influence my world' to happen, you're an MMORPG player even if you play the game itself completely alone. There's almost no separation here.

If you hate grouping with others but like the idea that someone else defeating a boss/miniboss in the open world changes your goals and gameplay, you choose to play an MMORPG because that's the genre that experience-type comes from.

The only thing Devs 'lost' over years was the ability to make players care about this possibility through something other than 'frustration that someone else got the thing they wanted before they did', and therefore the only thing that makes Ashes 'not the same as any other good MMORPG' is Freeholds (and likely the lack of good RP that will genuinely affect player motivations but nearly no Dev can do anything about that).

Ludullu

Azherae wrote: »

that a lot of players don't want other people to affect the world they are in and many of them are 'solo players' so conflation happens.

Yep, and to me it's this assumption by the majority that has led to "single player" mmos. We all want games to appeal to us, but, due to the solo players being the majority, devs have to balance their designs around that majority, otherwise the game runs out of money.

And when the majority's base assumption for any of their games is "no one can influence my gameplay" - the design direction choices become reaaaally limited. Hell, compared to some mmos, even Genshin is more impactful (pun intended) in this context, cause if you allow someone into your world - they can collect your gatherables and now you'd need to wait for 2-3 days to get those again.

And in this day and age of shareholders and money - the majority's opinion is the only valid one. That's the true devhell for current mmo devs.

Azherae

Sorta, but they can and do just go 'screw it, we still want to build a proper MMO'. Intrepid has done it, Throne and Liberty has done it, Elite Dangerous and EVE (sorta) never stopped doing it.

And therefore obviously, all those games have less players, but there are still so many things they can bring back, do better, etc.

I'm chilin' with the former 'King' of my TL server (yes, they did lose the castle because of that idiot 'Chancellor') in the village I consider 'home' now. Maybe my minimal RP is 'cringe' (he's neither responded nor walked away yet) but that's what you get when you play an MMO. People who acknowledge your effect on their world, and affect yours, and you can decide if to engage with that or not.

But I get something out of this, watching him in summer vacation style running around. And that's a thing that right now, both that player and I are 'each experiencing solo'.

In Ashes, I'd be able to encounter and complain to the equivalent person (Mayor of node probably) about the criminal lack of cooking facilities around the village, and in Ashes, there's a chance he would do something about it.

How cool is that?

JustVine

Ludullu wrote: »

And in this day and age of shareholders and money - the majority's opinion is the only valid one. That's the true devhell for current mmo devs.

One thing I take particular to heart in these dark times is just how often I've seen the 'disillusionment of shareholder based game dev and game media' lead to leaner teams with a feasible economic model that is dependent on the fans that feel their efforts are more genuine and worth paying attention to .

I think the 2010's was largely big companies buying up smaller ones because 1. getting rich or in many cases staying solvent was desirable 2. there was some level of belief that big companies valued the smaller ones culture that led to a dedicated fanbase and quality games.

Some of the earlier types of these smaller companies have lasted multiple years now and so far it mostly looks like it'll continue to be a healthy sustainable trend. Capitalism works, but not every business needs shareholder funding to work out economically.

That's why I personally am looking forward to smaller mmos like Eternal Tombs at the moment. Same vibe for the same reasons. The majority can get bent, niche content is were it's at. There will always be a game for 'the wider audience' but that doesn't need to be every game. I'm not 100% sure if a smaller mmo can work out with this model, but I sure hope the explosion I've been seeing the past few years for solo and even multiplayer games helps soak up some of the wayward people who don't REALLY want an mmo and can find fun in this new old frontier.

Ludullu

Azherae wrote: »

How cool is that?

Yep, that is the coolest thing about mmos for me. I've had these interactions with castle owners in L2 when those fuckers didn't set up their manor correctly

JustVine wrote: »

That's why I personally am looking forward to smaller mmos like Eternal Tombs at the moment. Same vibe for the same reasons. The majority can get bent, niche content is were it's at. There will always be a game for 'the wider audience' but that doesn't need to be every game. I'm not 100% sure if a smaller mmo can work out with this model, but I sure hope the explosion I've been seeing the past few years for solo and even multiplayer games helps soak up some of the wayward people who don't REALLY want an mmo and can find fun in this new old frontier.

It does seem to be an even bigger age of indie/smallscale games. Though I'm sure it's also waaay more stressful for everyone involved, cause it's really hard to stay afloat, considering how much content is out there.

I'm loving Sirocco (a really fun boat moba), but it's literally dying in front of my eyes, because it went from ~800 players on its EA release to, now, ~20 concurrents only at very particular few hours a day, so you MIGHT be able to get 2 matches going at the same time.

And today devs said that they'll try looking for a publisher to get them through to the release. And, usually, with publishers comes C A P I T A L I S M, so I dunno how bad things will look if devs manage to find someone.

And I'm sure they are far from the only indie company that's struggling to find its audience, even if the product itself is really nice. Ashes has been lucky enough to get insane hype for it thx to LazyPeon's video back in 2020, so its chances are definitely higher (as long as they deliver), but it'll still definitely be a struggle.

JustVine

Yeah, audience retention makes multiplayer one of the hardest genres in that regard. Marketing budgets and effective cm are basically a must for those games and that requires a significant amount of capital. I think there is a middle road though. There is a difference between 'investors or larger firms agreeing to set amount of growth' and a public company request unlimited maximal growth. You can have a midsized company and almost never require they type of 'unlimited growth on investment' style funding and have the marketing budget required to get that type of exposure and retention.

I definitely think there is a lot of nuance and mileage when it comes to deciding what type of monetization is acceptable and to what extent. At the end of the day though you are kind of right to bring up that example. It's a good example of 'the niche' having too high of a demand for resources compared to it's natural population. There is definitely such a thing as too niche. But I don't think you have to go as broad as many hyper solo players tend to push things either.

Arya_Yeshe

Hm, looks like this thread is turning into one of those highly philosophical ones. I'm already losing track of everyone's ideas, not sure I can add much to this melting pot

I'll just say any player is a good addition to any server, being a solo or community oriented person

Noaani

Ludullu wrote: »

TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »

Nah, I don’t agree. Games like GW2 and ESO prove you can be solo-friendly and still be a real MMO. GW2 is one of the most active MMOs in 2025, super chill for solo play but still full of group content and community.

We have differing opinions of what "a real mmo" is. To me, if you can clear the game and majority of its content w/o uttering a single word in chat - that's a single player game.

While I understand what it is you are actually saying, I'm not a fan of this way of wording it.

Even back in 2004, if you were in a guild that was organized, you didn't need to use in game chat at all. You could complete quests, dungeons, raids, everything that is the core of an MMORPG, all without needing to use chat at all.

Few people would have, because chat drama is great. However, it wasn't necessary to fully participate in what an MMORPG is all about.

Ludullu

Noaani wrote: »

Even back in 2004, if you were in a guild that was organized, you didn't need to use in game chat at all. You could complete quests, dungeons, raids, everything that is the core of an MMORPG, all without needing to use chat at all.

But how would you get into that organized guild as a completely new player?

True, I should've been clearer in that statement. By "single word in chat" I meant "no interaction with any other player in any way, including the forums, social media, audio apps, etc". You literally only log into the game, say nothing, but still clear the game just fine.

Githal

The MMO i played the most is definitely WOW. But The early expansions, where they were not meant for solo players. Well the problem with the later expansions are not just the solo players, but as a whole - WOW lost its charm with the later expansions, at least for me

And yes - questing and leveling up was Solo even in the early expansions - and this is the reason why this was the most boring process in the game

Aszkalon

Depraved wrote: »

ill elaborate more later, but basically, since there is a limited space of players per server, the more you make the game solo friendly, the more solo players will join, and the less space will be for group oriented players. that's not to say the game should be 100% party/guild oriented though.

If Ashes shall be Nodes versus Nodes though - then the Game can't be "too Solo Player friendly". The MOMENT you do make it too well appealing to play Solo - you have the same Situation like in Worst of Warcraft and incompetent Bunglers are in every Node except probably a single One -> which will "magically" dominate the whole Server.

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