what is going on with this project

I Think that it is time to start asking the tough questions, I have followed this game for over 7 years and have always given intrepid the benefit of the doubt, but i am getting pretty fed up with this project and the way that the team holds them self

I will start by saying, like many i bought into the project almost 8 years ago, with the expectation that the game would have released maybe 4-5 years ago, ( As per intrepid ) however this was not the case and intrepid decided to release apoc and an entire alpha that were both scrapped beforehand. However i do know that the very first release schedule even though stated by intrepid whilst selling pre order packs was a pipe dream as development is expected to take a long time

I still supported the project during the Apoc fiasco where the team decided for what ever reason to release this game instead of working on the project that they were raising money for and during this time even reccomended this game and to pre buy to many of my friends

i stayed with the project during the alpha 1 Launch that lets be honest actually looked like quite a decent start of a game, but again the team decided to scrap alpha 1 and restart fresh with UE 5 but for all of the ' open development ' that this team claims to be they have not spoken a word on this to this day as to why the project was scrapped ( for the second time )

after A1 closed down, i like many others, was misslead for the next 3 years of vertical slices that intrepid fed us, during this time i had quite a few of my friends purchase into the alpha due to my recommendation that the game was much further along than we thought, and also looked quite a bit nicer, seems like the team would rather work on vertical slices than the actual game but okay..

then started the missed deadlines and delays ( this is also fine as its game development ) but as of now we are what 0/12 missed deadlines i think its about time to read the room and stop giving dates when things will release, i participated in the first NDA alpha 2 where intrepid held a raffle system to join ( even though all the spots were actually given to Enveus ) and we got the first look into the game to find out it actually looked nothing like the vertical slices over the past years

then we got the roadmap for A2 and suprise suprise more missed deadlines, fast forward a year, and after all this time of supporting the game this is where i have had enough

a year into alpha 2 we have what 5 zones? yet each zone looks the EXACT same, even after years of feedback, there is no difference between the tropics or the anvils or the riverlands they are all just boring flat land masses with boring trees, boring mobs and 0 content

we have 0 story line
we have 0 quests ( if you think that the quests we have are in any way shape or form not place holders then idk )
we have 0 races ( every single race we have is the exact same, and it blows my mind that intrepid have not acknowledged this
basically none of the core game systems are in the game or working as intended
the summoner is delayed as per usual
we have place holder weapon tree's with basically every weapon being the exact same
we have basically every class bar the rogue and maybe the bard having to be re- done
we are still hard stuck at level 25
we have no secondaries classes
we have what i am guessing a place holder character creator ( this was suppose to be finished pre A2 launch, or in a good enough state to play around with, we still cant even save presets )

every single live stream is just more cope and hyped up systems that never actually make it into the game and it seems like EVERYTHING that does make it into the PTR is just a place holder

i know people will say '' this is a real alpha '' most companies don't show open development .. well this game is crowdfunded and rightfully so should be open development however the development updates we get seem to always push aside the real questions

we are what 10 years into this project with an alpha thats almost entirely place holder and for all we know just gets started from scratch again, people that have bought into this game are literally dying from old age ( this is not exaggeration ) and if not dying alot of people that have supported this project are not in the position to even play anymore due to the time frame this game has taken to release

i think that its time that the team kicks into gear, there are 250+ Talented devs working on this project, there should not be feedback posts being posted by the team asking for feedback of how the new races look, its not rocket science that the models look bad and need to be re done

its time to stop releasing full place holder systems, its time to stop wasting so much time on, entire game re works ( alpha 1 scrapped ), focusing dev time on cosmetics being available for p3?, we all want to play this game but come on at this rate it will not release until 2035, if the summoner has been delayed so many times, imagine how long it will take to release 64 sub classes.. we don't even have all the races even though we saw some of them years ago? and what we do have are basically all the same race

come on intrepid we have been supporting you a long time, and it feels like you are taking the piss, please show us some real progress, reeasing empty biomes that all look the same is not okay, the game should be starting to feel fun by now even if all systems are not in the game but as of right now it is just boring

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Ludullu

They've explained why APOC and UE5 change happened. APOC was a test for their initial combat design and made them realize that this design would not work for their goals. I wasn't following the game at the time of APOC, but afaik the stuff that you were getting for playing it is supposed to be transferable to the mmo as well, so it's not like you would've lost something if you played and paid for that mode.

There were also supposed to be several other modes (sieges being one of them iirc), which got scrapped exactly because development on the game took precedence.

The UE5 change was explained as a means for faster development, because UE5 has better tools for that. The visuals of UE5 will also help the game seem more appealing in the long run (though this is a fools errand, considering that biggest mmos on the market are old as fuck and look like shit, visuals-wise).

The change to UE5 pretty much shifted the game's development from 8 years overall to more like 4, at this time, cause it definitely seems that barely anything from A1 got transferred over in any meaningful way.

Everything is placeholder because it kinda has to be, while all the connected systems are being built up, and with one of those systems being dynamic gridding (which is one of the most complex systems Intrepid are trying to implement) - everything is on a slower pace of release than what it probably could've been.

All the vertical slice presentations are pretty much the standard in the industry. You can look at nearly every game presentation in history and see that majority of those do not match even the FINAL product, let alone pre-release builds. Making a vertical slice in a vacuum is way easier than trying to replicate the same fidelity in a live client. Especially when it comes to the kind of mmos that Intrepid are trying to make.

Summoner is being delayed because it'll be the, technically, most difficult-to-code archetype. You need proper mob AI, proper pathing, proper server/client response, proper player controls, proper mob interactions (effects/aggro/etc) - all of which are connected to server meshing, which is connected to dynamic gridding, which is not done yet (though PTR does seem to show some promise in that regard).

Rogue and Bard are the examples of what the devs are capable of, when it comes to archetype design, so rebalancing/design of other archetypes is simply a matter of time (yes, I know that this is an ironic thing to say under a post complaining about said "time").

All races looking "the same" is not really about fidelity or dev work or anything else. That's simply the design Steven went with. I'm fairly sure thsi has been known from the start. We have humans, humans with long ears, short humans, green (previously yellowy-reddish) humans, tree-deer humans, shrimped humans, grey humans and the furry/scaley beasts. Obviously those last ones are the most difficult to create, especially considering the promise that we're supposed to be able to combo their traits however we want.

I agree that the cosmetics thing is dumb as fuck. I also think that rebalancing of things like archetypes, stats and gear is also dumb, at this moment in time. I think that working on FTUE right now is dumb as fuck too. And obviously all the constant delays are annoying beyond belief.

But considering the current state of the industry, it's a fucking miracle that this game is even still alive and is being developed. Half the games that were announced in the past 5-10 years have been cancelled. The other half have come out in more than unfinished states or in Early Access ones. And anything that's been released, or was released waaay back in the day, is full of the most predatory practices imaginable. In other words, everybody knows shit's fucked.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImMxcUQrBCs

And while none of that stuff excuses Intrepid's prolonged development or Steven's love to overpromise LITERALLY THE ENTIRE WORLD - I do think that the game is in a better state than most of the industry rn. The only problem here is that we see a fair part of how the sausage is made and only a few of us are ok with seeing that process w/o flipping out at its insanity.

I'd recommend forgetting about the game for now and simply checking gaming news from time to time, cause if the game does release - you'll hear about it one way or the other.

Caww

This really is a small company so it's no surprise their timeline gets extended.

Aszkalon

summonme5454 wrote: »

what is going on with this project

" Early " Alpha 2.

If someone doesn't want/like to hear that, i shall add one more Word. " RELATIVELY early Alpha 2 "

Enjoy that good things shall take awhile.
Open Development comes with a Prize.

You see the whooooooooooooooooole State of Development from here on, at where i heard - OTHER COMPANIES usually do not even announce their Game yet.

Azherae

Foundations are the important part to get right.

Vertical slices are great for showing what foundations are intended for.

If you want to build a single dungeon in an MMO you need a fair few things to be working correctly.

If you want to be able to build 40 dungeons in an MMO you need many things to be working correctly. But the quality of each of the 40 can be shown off using the single.

Eventually when the foundation is sturdy enough, the next 60 dungeons are either 'trivial' or 'easy to use as testbeds for entirely new things', and then if the new thing doesn't work out you dial back the scope of the dungeon and accept 'standard' instead of 'groundbreaking' and people still have content.

Same goes for classes, biomes, story.

Last I checked, when I killed mobs I got exp, and even the Nodes got exp. Most of the concerns in the OP, many of us also have, but are largely in the 'what's done is done' stage. The Devs there now are doing good work, so there's nothing to 'hold them accountable' for.

Depraved

did he just make a 2nd account to post that?XD

SmileGurney

Narc, is that you?

Aszkalon

Azherae wrote: »

The Devs there now are doing good work, so there's nothing to 'hold them accountable' for.

This is also a good way to describe it. They do what they can do right now and they do it in a good way.

Depraved

summonme5454 wrote: »

I Think that it is time to start asking the tough questions, I have followed this game for over 7 years and have always given intrepid the benefit of the doubt, but i am getting pretty fed up with this project and the way that the team holds them self

I will start by saying, like many i bought into the project almost 8 years ago, with the expectation that the game would have released maybe 4-5 years ago, ( As per intrepid ) however this was not the case and intrepid decided to release apoc and an entire alpha that were both scrapped beforehand. However i do know that the very first release schedule even though stated by intrepid whilst selling pre order packs was a pipe dream as development is expected to take a long time

I still supported the project during the Apoc fiasco where the team decided for what ever reason to release this game instead of working on the project that they were raising money for and during this time even reccomended this game and to pre buy to many of my friends

i stayed with the project during the alpha 1 Launch that lets be honest actually looked like quite a decent start of a game, but again the team decided to scrap alpha 1 and restart fresh with UE 5 but for all of the ' open development ' that this team claims to be they have not spoken a word on this to this day as to why the project was scrapped ( for the second time )

after A1 closed down, i like many others, was misslead for the next 3 years of vertical slices that intrepid fed us, during this time i had quite a few of my friends purchase into the alpha due to my recommendation that the game was much further along than we thought, and also looked quite a bit nicer, seems like the team would rather work on vertical slices than the actual game but okay..

then started the missed deadlines and delays ( this is also fine as its game development ) but as of now we are what 0/12 missed deadlines i think its about time to read the room and stop giving dates when things will release, i participated in the first NDA alpha 2 where intrepid held a raffle system to join ( even though all the spots were actually given to Enveus ) and we got the first look into the game to find out it actually looked nothing like the vertical slices over the past years

then we got the roadmap for A2 and suprise suprise more missed deadlines, fast forward a year, and after all this time of supporting the game this is where i have had enough

a year into alpha 2 we have what 5 zones? yet each zone looks the EXACT same, even after years of feedback, there is no difference between the tropics or the anvils or the riverlands they are all just boring flat land masses with boring trees, boring mobs and 0 content

we have 0 story line
we have 0 quests ( if you think that the quests we have are in any way shape or form not place holders then idk )
we have 0 races ( every single race we have is the exact same, and it blows my mind that intrepid have not acknowledged this
basically none of the core game systems are in the game or working as intended
the summoner is delayed as per usual
we have place holder weapon tree's with basically every weapon being the exact same
we have basically every class bar the rogue and maybe the bard having to be re- done
we are still hard stuck at level 25
we have no secondaries classes
we have what i am guessing a place holder character creator ( this was suppose to be finished pre A2 launch, or in a good enough state to play around with, we still cant even save presets )

every single live stream is just more cope and hyped up systems that never actually make it into the game and it seems like EVERYTHING that does make it into the PTR is just a place holder

i know people will say '' this is a real alpha '' most companies don't show open development .. well this game is crowdfunded and rightfully so should be open development however the development updates we get seem to always push aside the real questions

we are what 10 years into this project with an alpha thats almost entirely place holder and for all we know just gets started from scratch again, people that have bought into this game are literally dying from old age ( this is not exaggeration ) and if not dying alot of people that have supported this project are not in the position to even play anymore due to the time frame this game has taken to release

i think that its time that the team kicks into gear, there are 250+ Talented devs working on this project, there should not be feedback posts being posted by the team asking for feedback of how the new races look, its not rocket science that the models look bad and need to be re done

its time to stop releasing full place holder systems, its time to stop wasting so much time on, entire game re works ( alpha 1 scrapped ), focusing dev time on cosmetics being available for p3?, we all want to play this game but come on at this rate it will not release until 2035, if the summoner has been delayed so many times, imagine how long it will take to release 64 sub classes.. we don't even have all the races even though we saw some of them years ago? and what we do have are basically all the same race

come on intrepid we have been supporting you a long time, and it feels like you are taking the piss, please show us some real progress, reeasing empty biomes that all look the same is not okay, the game should be starting to feel fun by now even if all systems are not in the game but as of right now it is just boring

I think you have some misconceptions.

first of all, steven said a1 and a2 are meant for adding core features, testing server stability, performance, etc. content will be added in phase 3. we havent started phase 3 yet, so don't expect lots of content.

when you say the core systems arent added, im fairly certain you dont know what a core system is. login in and out of the game, thats a core system. creating a character, naming it, selecting a race, class and appearance, core system there. being able to move your character in the world, attack, use skills, etc, core system. corruption, crafting, questing, nodes, etc, etc, etc, those are the core systems of the game (plus a few secondary systems). what we dont have is a lot of content yet, since we arent in phase 3.

when you make a game (or software in general), you just dont go and make the game. you make a factory that makes the game. they are building the factory. there are also lots of stuff that need to be in the game that the player cant see, like back end stuff. also, there are internal tools, management systems, etc that need to be created.

Orym

I stopped reading at "I will start by saying, like many i bought into the project almost 8 years ago, with the expectation that the game would have released maybe 4-5 years ago"

Ludullu

Orym wrote: »

I stopped reading at "I will start by saying, like many i bought into the project almost 8 years ago, with the expectation that the game would have released maybe 4-5 years ago"

TBF Steven DID promise a pre-2020 release

It's just that he didn't know shit about gamedev and thought that just throwing money at people will magically create one of the biggest mmos out there out of nothing.

Volgaris

Cheese will pair well with all this whine...

At first I thought maybe it's a troll post, burner account, ect. But as I read more I started to think this person is actually mad that the game isn't playable yet. There's not a single valid complaint, most is just a lie.

thunderfury2024

i think that its time that the team kicks into gear, there are 250+ Talented devs working on this project, there should not be feedback posts being posted by the team asking for feedback of how the new races look, its not rocket science that the models look bad and need to be re done

When I look at the whole world and especially the latest developer video, I have my doubts as to whether the game will be any good.

I have rarely seen anything as ugly as the city shown in the last video.
It was so incredibly poorly designed that I am at a loss for words.

Vyllz

I get the frustration, but Ashes is building something few MMOs attempt, a fully dynamic, node-based world with interconnected systems. That takes time, iteration, and yes, placeholder content in alpha. The goal right now is stability of core systems, not final polish. It’s slow, but if Intrepid stays the course, the end result will be worth the wait.

Ludullu

thunderfury2024 wrote: »

I have rarely seen anything as ugly as the city shown in the last video.
It was so incredibly poorly designed that I am at a loss for words.

How many games in alpha state have you seen? Cause I've only seen 2 so far and the other game still had grey boxes instead of units.

Volgaris

thunderfury2024 wrote: »

i think that its time that the team kicks into gear, there are 250+ Talented devs working on this project, there should not be feedback posts being posted by the team asking for feedback of how the new races look, its not rocket science that the models look bad and need to be re done

When I look at the whole world and especially the latest developer video, I have my doubts as to whether the game will be any good.

I have rarely seen anything as ugly as the city shown in the last video.
It was so incredibly poorly designed that I am at a loss for words.

Do you feel this way about all the level/world design? Or is it just what you seen on the last dev stream?

Aszkalon

Orym wrote: »

I stopped reading at "I will start by saying, like many i bought into the project almost 8 years ago, with the expectation that the game would have released maybe 4-5 years ago"

But what are they supposed to do now except to keep waiting ? Throw a little bit something of a Temper Tantrum like Narc and end their Contact with Intrepid with a self-destructive Video ?

I admit this was probably the One thing many People can not forgive Sir Steven. They expected the Game to come out quick and now they have to wait for like a small to not so small Eternity so that the Game can actually be as good as Sir Steven wants it to be.

Personally i am already thankful that it is happening at all. And that Sir Steven never gave up.

Aszkalon

REHOC wrote: »

I get the frustration, but Ashes is building something few MMOs attempt, a fully dynamic, node-based world with interconnected systems. That takes time, iteration, and yes, placeholder content in alpha. The goal right now is stability of core systems, not final polish.

It’s slow, but if Intrepid stays the course, the end result will be worth the wait.

RING DING DING DING !!!!

Exactly.

I bet pretty much Everyone rolls their Eyes back somewhere inside -> but we just KNOW the Endresult will be worth the wait. Even if it's somewhat different than what a few People here might hope it will be.

It will definitely be a cool MMO that will put MASSIVE back in MMO.

chrisdev330

Depraved wrote: »

summonme5454 wrote: »

I Think that it is time to start asking the tough questions, I have followed this game for over 7 years and have always given intrepid the benefit of the doubt, but i am getting pretty fed up with this project and the way that the team holds them self

I will start by saying, like many i bought into the project almost 8 years ago, with the expectation that the game would have released maybe 4-5 years ago, ( As per intrepid ) however this was not the case and intrepid decided to release apoc and an entire alpha that were both scrapped beforehand. However i do know that the very first release schedule even though stated by intrepid whilst selling pre order packs was a pipe dream as development is expected to take a long time

I still supported the project during the Apoc fiasco where the team decided for what ever reason to release this game instead of working on the project that they were raising money for and during this time even reccomended this game and to pre buy to many of my friends

i stayed with the project during the alpha 1 Launch that lets be honest actually looked like quite a decent start of a game, but again the team decided to scrap alpha 1 and restart fresh with UE 5 but for all of the ' open development ' that this team claims to be they have not spoken a word on this to this day as to why the project was scrapped ( for the second time )

after A1 closed down, i like many others, was misslead for the next 3 years of vertical slices that intrepid fed us, during this time i had quite a few of my friends purchase into the alpha due to my recommendation that the game was much further along than we thought, and also looked quite a bit nicer, seems like the team would rather work on vertical slices than the actual game but okay..

then started the missed deadlines and delays ( this is also fine as its game development ) but as of now we are what 0/12 missed deadlines i think its about time to read the room and stop giving dates when things will release, i participated in the first NDA alpha 2 where intrepid held a raffle system to join ( even though all the spots were actually given to Enveus ) and we got the first look into the game to find out it actually looked nothing like the vertical slices over the past years

then we got the roadmap for A2 and suprise suprise more missed deadlines, fast forward a year, and after all this time of supporting the game this is where i have had enough

a year into alpha 2 we have what 5 zones? yet each zone looks the EXACT same, even after years of feedback, there is no difference between the tropics or the anvils or the riverlands they are all just boring flat land masses with boring trees, boring mobs and 0 content

we have 0 story line
we have 0 quests ( if you think that the quests we have are in any way shape or form not place holders then idk )
we have 0 races ( every single race we have is the exact same, and it blows my mind that intrepid have not acknowledged this
basically none of the core game systems are in the game or working as intended
the summoner is delayed as per usual
we have place holder weapon tree's with basically every weapon being the exact same
we have basically every class bar the rogue and maybe the bard having to be re- done
we are still hard stuck at level 25
we have no secondaries classes
we have what i am guessing a place holder character creator ( this was suppose to be finished pre A2 launch, or in a good enough state to play around with, we still cant even save presets )

every single live stream is just more cope and hyped up systems that never actually make it into the game and it seems like EVERYTHING that does make it into the PTR is just a place holder

i know people will say '' this is a real alpha '' most companies don't show open development .. well this game is crowdfunded and rightfully so should be open development however the development updates we get seem to always push aside the real questions

we are what 10 years into this project with an alpha thats almost entirely place holder and for all we know just gets started from scratch again, people that have bought into this game are literally dying from old age ( this is not exaggeration ) and if not dying alot of people that have supported this project are not in the position to even play anymore due to the time frame this game has taken to release

i think that its time that the team kicks into gear, there are 250+ Talented devs working on this project, there should not be feedback posts being posted by the team asking for feedback of how the new races look, its not rocket science that the models look bad and need to be re done

its time to stop releasing full place holder systems, its time to stop wasting so much time on, entire game re works ( alpha 1 scrapped ), focusing dev time on cosmetics being available for p3?, we all want to play this game but come on at this rate it will not release until 2035, if the summoner has been delayed so many times, imagine how long it will take to release 64 sub classes.. we don't even have all the races even though we saw some of them years ago? and what we do have are basically all the same race

come on intrepid we have been supporting you a long time, and it feels like you are taking the piss, please show us some real progress, reeasing empty biomes that all look the same is not okay, the game should be starting to feel fun by now even if all systems are not in the game but as of right now it is just boring

I think you have some misconceptions.

first of all, steven said a1 and a2 are meant for adding core features, testing server stability, performance, etc. content will be added in phase 3. we havent started phase 3 yet, so don't expect lots of content.

when you say the core systems arent added, im fairly certain you dont know what a core system is. login in and out of the game, thats a core system. creating a character, naming it, selecting a race, class and appearance, core system there. being able to move your character in the world, attack, use skills, etc, core system. corruption, crafting, questing, nodes, etc, etc, etc, those are the core systems of the game (plus a few secondary systems). what we dont have is a lot of content yet, since we arent in phase 3.

when you make a game (or software in general), you just dont go and make the game. you make a factory that makes the game. they are building the factory. there are also lots of stuff that need to be in the game that the player cant see, like back end stuff. also, there are internal tools, management systems, etc that need to be created.

Woah that's crazy. Being able to login, create a character and "play" a game are not core systems. At least in the way the OP is describing it. Unless you want to be disingenuous, pretty sure everyone understands what the OP means. And they have a strong point.

Caeryl

Stephen absolutely overpromised and some buy-ins absolutely overestimated how realistic the timelines were

At the end of the day, the cosmetic aspects are not a priority for getting the game running and don't even matter at this point. If the biomes are producing unique resources, updating location on the back end correctly, etc, they're working. Visual distinction can be done later.

I do think the lack of progress with the secondary class is the one concerning thing listed in this post and it should be upped in priority. There doesn't need to be a massive expanse of ability changes based on it, just enough to demonstrate how it works and smooth out wrinkles in the process that'll be used later down the line.

Laetitian

Azherae wrote: »

Vertical slices are great for showing what foundations are intended for.

If you want to build a single dungeon in an MMO you need a fair few things to be working correctly.
If you want to be able to build 40 dungeons in an MMO you need many things to be working correctly. But the quality of each of the 40 can be shown off using the single.

Eventually when the foundation is sturdy enough, the next 60 dungeons are either 'trivial' or 'easy to use as testbeds for entirely new things', and then if the new thing doesn't work out you dial back the scope of the dungeon and accept 'standard' instead of 'groundbreaking' and people still have content.

Very concisely and accurately put.

Azherae wrote: »

The Devs there now are doing good work, so there's nothing to 'hold them accountable' for.

I'm so excited for OP's acknowledgement and response.

Child Item