Rushing to End Game....Is it a problem?

EDIT: This post isn't directed solely to Ashes of Creation. It's more of a generalized discussion on games as a whole.

Good evening all! I wanted to get the communities opinion on the topic of Rushing to End Game.

For as long as I can remember I have, the last 10 years at a minimum, started a game with friends and rushed towards the "end game." Star Wars: The Old Republic, Final Fantasy XIV: ARR/Heavensward, Grim Dawn, Torchlight 2, Destiny 2, Anthem, and most recently The Elder Scrolls Online. All of these games were great games, and I looked forward to their release. My issue is that aside from being fun, I didn't pay much attention to the story or lore unless it was a main story mission that caught my attention. The Mass Effect and Dragon Age series are well known for great story, and when I played those, I took my time to enjoy them and understand what I was partaking in.

So my question to all of you is this; Do you have the same issue? And if you do is it a problem with us, the game, or the idea that the game is only fun at the "end game?" So much time and effort goes into making great stories and lore for these games, but I find myself just clicking through the dialog to finish the quest and move on to the next thing.

I'm hoping that I can not do that with Ashes and enjoy the world they are creating for us.

Thanks for your time!

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Karthos

Anyone remember the "Fatigue System" from the first run of FF14?

Yeah we definitely don't want that.

Why artificially impact how fast a player reaches max level? If someone wants to devote 20hrs a day to bum rush content, then more power to them. It's not the way I'd play, but I'd be salty if i had my play style dictated by them, so why is it okay for me to dictate their's?

Ezenkrul

To each their own.
If someone wants to rush to the endgame then let them. I don' think it is a problem at all just like it is not a problem for those who want to take their time or for those who want to role play.
For MMOs I feel that a gaming company should plan to fill the needs of a wider audience though and expect a plethora of play styles. "Endgame" content is important as well as the in between.

Volgaire

With how Ashes will work it's impossible to do the same kind of end game rush as in other games due to node limitations, it might be different once the servers are properly populated and developed so new player then might have it easier but still not as easy as most games c:

Damokles

I really wonder if defending low level nodes/establishing low level nodes will be harder then defending high level nodes. Depending on that would be the distribution of players in the zones and nodes. (Low level players would either most of the time hang back in bigger nodes and high level players would be pushing the border establishing low level nodes etc, or the exact opposite meaning that low level players would push the boundaries and high level playyers would stay back and try to protect high level nodes, or that all nodes will have quests for all levels

)

Wandering Mist

If a player wants to ignore the lore/story and rush straight to end-game, that is entirely their choice. For me personally, I want to enjoy the story but often I get overwhelmed by it, especially by games such as WoW, ESO and FF14 where the game lore is so expansive and in-depth that you can spend years on it and still not fully understand it all. Just as an example, here is a video from a guy who spends pretty much all his time researching WoW lore, and he made a video describing the key events in the WoW history:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ__nRnO2mE

As you can see, that alone, without going in many of the details or really explaining the characters is over 40 minutes long. It doesn't help that the way WoW leveling currently is makes the storyline impossible for a new player to follow as the story is out of order and a lot of the main storypoints are contained in the older raids, which most players will never do while leveling.

FF14 has similar problems. I'm currently working my way through the level 1-50 main story and honestly I'm struggling to keep up with it. There is so much to keep track of that it's hard to differentiate between what is actually important and what is filler. The result is I'm getting burned out by reading so much quest text that I've started skipping over most of it. In a way it's a relief because it means I don't get so bogged down in needless filler, but at the same time there is a nagging feeling in the back of my mind that I have missed a key element of the story by skipping over so much of the quest text.

The good thing about Ashes is that, unlike WoW, FF14 and ESO, it isn't based on an existing franchise so new players coming in aren't going to have to catch up on the lore. This will make the story-telling a lot easier to follow.

If IS intends for Ashes to be a more story-driven leveling experience, I hope they will look to GW2 for inspiration. In my opinion it has by far the best leveling experience of any mmorpg I have played, mostly because of how the story is delivered. The story is delivered in easily digestible chunks that are forcibly separated by periods of open world exploring. For anyone who hasn't played it, basically what happens is that every 10 levels you unlock a new chapter in the main story (a story that is personalised for your character based on what race you chose, among other things when you set up your character). These story chapters will generally only give you about 1-2 levels of exp and at the end of the chapter the NPCs will basically say "well done for your good deeds, go now and relax/train to become stronger and we will call you when the time comes".

This is great because it gives players who like to explore the chance to do so without worrying about missing out on the story, and the story itself has very little filler content, staying focused on what is important to your character.

Wololo

i love to rush endgame but dont like reaching it. if that makes sence ? XD

noemad

Nope. I don't rush to the end. I did raiding for a while in one of my past MMOs before deciding that it wasn't for me (way too much drama and guild politics), but even then I didn't rush to the end. For me an MMO is about the world and the story and exploring everything I can. Frankly I don't care if I ever get to the endgame. I'm perfectly happy playing thru at my own pace. I'm even happier if that pace means the devs are able to add content faster than I can explore it. Granted that doesn't happen in most games (or ever really) but I can dream can't I?

ShadowCrept

Only Rushing I do is First to Max Level for Bragging Rights.. If their is a normal fully fleshed out quest system than I will rush that as well, gives me more time to do other stuff!

Ravudha

I don't really consider it a problem because quest text is just one type of content. Like all content, some people skip it while others invest time in it.

That said, I do think there are ways to make quest text more appealing or necessary.
E.g.
- don't provide mini-map quest markers and directions; these make text obsolete
- put hints in text that lead players to secret/more advanced content (quests, crafting, resources, explain game mechanics, etc.)

Wandering Mist

ravudha wrote: »

I don't really consider it a problem because quest text is just one type of content. Like all content, some people skip it while others invest time in it.

That said, I do think there are ways to make quest text more appealing or necessary.
E.g.
- don't provide mini-map quest markers and directions; these make text obsolete
- put hints in text that lead players to secret/more advanced content (quests, crafting, resources, explain game mechanics, etc.)

I agree with the sentiment of getting players to work a bit harder for their quest objectives rather than just putting quest markers on the minimap. However, there are problems with putting too much emphasis on quest text such as language barriers for non-native speakers. If you've ever played an Asian mmorpg that hasn't yet been translated into English you will understand how debilitating it can be, and how important the markers are.

Azathoth

@wanderingmist, I can understand your point. I think implementing quest markers and navigation info in the display is a poor fix. I'm sure there will be language patches, maybe not for all. If players choose to play before their language patch (assuming they will have one), that's on them. If players won't have a language patch (or one they know, since most non-Americans know at least 2 languages), then that is a shame.

However, I don't think Ashes needs to accommodate every possible player.

Chung

I never rush my first character through a game. Most of the time I don't even know what level my character is at any given moment. I don't normally use "XP boosters" because I don't want to out level the content. I play with a group of friends and I'm nearly always the lowest level of the group. Like others have said I usually lose interest in a game once I'm max level and have run out of new content.

I will somewhat rush subsequent characters through the content. Like in ESO I have 8 max characters so the content starts to get a little repetitive about the 3rd time through so I tend rush through it more.

Wandering Mist

azathoth wrote: »

@wanderingmist, I can understand your point. I think implementing quest markers and navigation info in the display is a poor fix. I'm sure there will be language patches, maybe not for all. If players choose to play before their language patch (assuming they will have one), that's on them. If players won't have a language patch (or one they know, since most non-Americans know at least 2 languages), then that is a shame.

However, I don't think Ashes needs to accommodate every possible player.

Try to please everyone and you'll end up please nobody. That's why I admire games like Secret World Legends that aren't afraid to go against the norm and deliver a more unique questing experience.

sojourn85

Oh buddy. I seem to have started a decent discussion here. I was reminded of why I started skipping quest text last night. My uncle and I were back in ESO, and I had made the conscious effort to read the quest I was working on. With all the information it was taking me about 5 minutes to read that part of the quest from that NPC. That was great in that it explained the situation, and it was a bit sad, but that was 5 minutes from one NPC that I could have spent killing and leveling. So, it's definitely going to have to be a balance.

I also think that quest markers decrease my need to read the text. If it's going to show me where to go why bother, right?! But it's an interesting dilemma. I, personally, will try to read what I can so that the experience is more enjoyable...and remember-able. There aren't many MMOs that I've played, that I can honestly remember a great moment from it. It was just content grind. And I wish to change that with my time in ESO and with AoC in the future.

sivanna

When it comes to quest text I always skip the long dialogue, and just read the summary in my Journals/logs. I skim it for the important bits like location, objective, and any special conditions that need to be met. Since they have said there won’t be quest markers to speed things along and each server will be different I think rushing will be a bit more difficult. I hope.

I very much hate rushing to “end game”, but I still do it.

ArgentDawn

Karthos wrote: »

Anyone remember the "Fatigue System" from the first run of FF14?

Yeah we definitely don't want that.

Why artificially impact how fast a player reaches max level? If someone wants to devote 20hrs a day to bum rush content, then more power to them. It's not the way I'd play, but I'd be salty if i had my play style dictated by them, so why is it okay for me to dictate their's?

We don't talk about the days before a realm reborn. But yes that was awful.

Wandering Mist

Sojourn85 wrote: »

Oh buddy. I seem to have started a decent discussion here. I was reminded of why I started skipping quest text last night. My uncle and I were back in ESO, and I had made the conscious effort to read the quest I was working on. With all the information it was taking me about 5 minutes to read that part of the quest from that NPC. That was great in that it explained the situation, and it was a bit sad, but that was 5 minutes from one NPC that I could have spent killing and leveling. So, it's definitely going to have to be a balance.

I also think that quest markers decrease my need to read the text. If it's going to show me where to go why bother, right?! But it's an interesting dilemma. I, personally, will try to read what I can so that the experience is more enjoyable...and remember-able. There aren't many MMOs that I've played, that I can honestly remember a great moment from it. It was just content grind. And I wish to change that with my time in ESO and with AoC in the future.

There definitely needs to be a balance between immersion and information-overload. Working my way through FF14's main story, I'm getting constantly bombarded with information to the point where I struggle to keep track of the important events. It's all just a blur. I'm praised for all my heroic deeds and yet I can barely remember any of them, and I'm only about a third of the way through the story. The other problem is keeping track of all the characters you are introduced to along the way. I will be introduced to a character, given a ton of exposition about them, and by the time I have forgotten most of what I was told.

On the other end of the spectrum, if you just give the bare bones information about what you are doing it's a lot harder to get immersed in the story. For example, there was one quest I did in FF14 where I went to a farmer who asked me to find a treasure chest, which contained a seed. If that was the only information I was given I would dismiss the whole thing as pointless filler. But when I accepted the quest I was told that the people of the village were suffering because none of their plants would grow, and the seed I went to find was the only plant that would grow. Me retrieving that seed essentially saves the village was starvation.

Again, if you haven't already I would definitely recommend playing through the main story of GW2, as it does a fantastic job of immersing you in the story without overloading you with information and lore.

With regards to quest markers, what other options could developers use to direct players where they need to go for a quest? Either you give them markers and accept that a lot of players are going to skip through the quest text, or you take away the markers and make people read the text (or do "google-fu" to find the answers from someone else).

Damokles

Does anyone else remember the oldschool slow scrolling questtexts from WoW Classic? Those, where you could brew a cup of tea, while waiting for it to finish?

Karthos

Damokles wrote: »

Does anyone else remember the oldschool slow scrolling questtexts from WoW Classic? Those, where you could brew a cup of tea, while waiting for it to finish?

Im pretty sure Blizzard's greatest gift to mankind was removing that feature. I remember starting one in Thousand Needles and literally eating dinner the whole time it played.

Volgaire

The only mmo that had me interested in quests was SWTOR, I actually listened to side quests and the main story because it was interesting and fun, other mmo's have it just for filler and it's quite boring.

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